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2015 US Open Hardbat RR |
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wturber 
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Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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 Topic: 2015 US Open Hardbat RRPosted: 07/22/2015 at 4:47pm |
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So how often can I brag that I beat a 2700 level player at the US Open. Pretty much never ... with this one exception. The A player in my RR group was Filip Szymanski from Poland and I did manage to win the match. Now in fairness, Filip came to the match assuming that the rackets were supplied by the tournament as is the case with World Championship of Ping Pong (where he has competed) and perhaps other hardbat events. He explained his predicament and I gladly lent him my spare racket. I remember thinking to myself, "Great, I'm going to get beat by this guy with my own racket." He did get to play one full match with it before we played.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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APW46
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Posted: 07/22/2015 at 5:16pm |
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Great match,I really enjoyed the points towards the end.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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NextLevel
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Posted: 07/22/2015 at 5:23pm |
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Great stuff, J. Well played.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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heavyspin
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Posted: 07/22/2015 at 5:30pm |
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I didn't watch all of it, but from what I've seen you're definitely the better HB player. I'm trying to notice how much of Filip's game correlates with hardbat. He obviously had little confidence in playing topspin. His footwork for close range was not as good as I'd expect. Being out of one's element can do that. From deep range, however, Filip has very good touch for retrieving and moves very well to come in for your drop shots.
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An EJ to a table tennis player is an equipment junkie. An ej to a mathematician is a standard basis vector.
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ndotson
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Joined: 08/22/2014 Location: Spokane, WA Status: Offline Points: 176 |
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Posted: 07/22/2015 at 5:34pm |
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Excellent match Jay! I had a chance to play Filip in the Men's >30 event....I didn't fare so well
 . Nice guy though.
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Korbel
H3 / Curl P1 |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/22/2015 at 5:59pm |
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If people found the match entertaining, then I'm happy. I agree that the points got better toward the end. I thought Filip settled into a good rhythm in the second game while I stopped moving my feet as well as I had been and got overly aggressive. By the third game Filip was pretty consistently bringing stuff back and making me hit a lot of balls to win a point and I got my feet moving again and dialed back the aggression a notch. If Filip could have added a bit more attack successfully, he probably wins the match. As for Filip's footwork, there's a point in the middle somewhere where my ball hits the net. Filip came in quickly and retrieved it. I thought I did a nice job of redirecting his return off the opposite side of the table, but he got around to that side and retrieved that. So I hit the next ball to the opposite diagonal - not with a lot of pace, because I didn't think it was worth the risk. Filip gets that ball as well. So I finally hit a medium pace forehand which he fails to chop back. Maybe that doesn't qualify as good "footwork", but it was great movement IMO. And that movement forced me to hit a lot more balls than I wanted to hit. And yes, Filip seemed like a very nice fellow. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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berndt_mann
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Posted: 07/22/2015 at 9:44pm |
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A masterful performance, Jay. You moved Filip up and back very well, exactly the way to play against a predominantly mid- to long range defensive hardbat player. Moreover, it seemed to me that you did not merely topspin back Filip's higher chops; you smashed them. Whoo! I haven't seen that sort of thing since Sanford "Sandy" Potiker drew down against John Lehman back in the day. Sandy's strokes looked different from yours, but you hit every bit as hard as he did, if not harder.
It's interesting that players like Filip often elect to chop when playing with a hardbat. Filip seemed like a very nice guy, and his hardbat retrieving defense was equal to, if not better than, Waldner's. Pretty good up and back defensive footwork, too. You never really gave him a chance to counterattack, however, poor fellow. Edited by berndt_mann - 07/22/2015 at 11:03pm |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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Tinykin
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 12:19am |
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Any win over Szymanski is a good win to boast about for the rest of your days.
He loves playing all forms of TT and he has played Hardbat (using rec type bats) and WCPP for years. I think he chops simply because he wants to and not because he thinks that is the way to win. |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:43am |
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Yeah. It was pretty clear that he wanted to chop. I have no illusions that my game forced him in that direction. He wanted to chop and I was happy to oblige him by attacking.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:56am |
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Filip did punish a couple of my weak drop shot/pushes pretty severely. But mostly I think he chose not to attack more than I did anything to prevent him from attacking. Early on I figured out that it was going to be hard to hit it by Filip. My goal was to make him hit shots on the move more than it was to smash winners. I hit very few clean winners and I didn't really think I was hitting many smashes. I was thinking that I was simply hitting topspin drives with more or less pace.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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Tinykin
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:20pm |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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Tinykin
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:22pm |
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Ok Berndt, that photo is for you.
All England Team v USA World Championships Team 21st February 1949, Cheltenham Town Hall. Joan Brock (Crosby), Richard Bergmann, Marty Reisman, Thelma Thall, x, Peggy McLean, Molly Jones (Hawkins), Richard Miles. You can have a nice sleep tonight. |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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ZingyDNA
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:26pm |
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I think this gives EJ's a lot of motivation: after all a 2700 USATT player can lose 700 pts just by switching a racket. How important does that make your equipment?
 I guess I should of congratulated Jay first LOL |
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Tinykin
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:41pm |
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And playing style.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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berndt_mann
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 2:46pm |
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In this particular instance it makes your equipment 700 rating points worth of importance, that is if you normally play with the latest boosted tensored finest stuff that current technology has to offer, as opposed to a simple piece of wood with a spongeless short pimpled rubber plastered onto it, such as Dr. Evil or Gambler Peacekeeper.  Edited by berndt_mann - 07/23/2015 at 2:48pm |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 3:08pm |
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It isn't quite that simple. Late last year I beat (in a club match, not a tournament) Franz Huermann in a very close club match that went to five games. He's a solid 2300 level chopper (uses a hardbat with Magic Pips - not USATT hardbat approved). I play well against choppers. Probably because I regularly drill against chop and because choppers gives me extra time to react to the ball which helps to cover up my weaknesses in footwork. Further, not only is this an equipment change for Filip, he had limited time to train/get used to this particular racket and rubber. It wouldn't take much extra time with Filip training with that racket for the match outcome to change. Of course, equipment matters. But the 700 point swing isn't just about equipment. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 3:25pm |
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I played in the Senior Games with Tybie (Thelma Thall) back in 2010/2011. She was 85 or 86 at that time so we had to play in the 50-54 category. We were semifinalists in the Mixed Doubles event. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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berndt_mann
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 4:23pm |
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Jay,
What do you suppose the outcome of your match against Filip might have been if you had decided to primarily chop and sporadically countertopspin his weaker topspins? And how long do you suppose it might take for Filip to play with a hardbat well enough to defeat an experienced hardbat player such as yourself if he were to train a while with a racket such as your spare racket? The videos you posted of you and Tybie playing mixed doubles were encouraging to a young oldster such as myself. I can only hope to have Tybie's longevity and to be able to play as well as she does should I reach the age of 85 or 86. Tybie is also a wonderful table tennis raconteur. Her accounting of winning the World Mixed Doubles with a reluctant Dick Miles and his subsequent treatment of her (and later apology) was both ribald and wickedly witty. |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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Tinykin
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 4:48pm |
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Hmmm, now that Johnny Leach and Aubrey Simons have passed on (2015), does that make Tybie the oldest living world TT champion?
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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wilkinru
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 4:57pm |
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Hah I can hear Jones in the background. (the runner up to the event)
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wturber
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 7:16pm |
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Anybody's guess if we reversed roles. As for beating me with practice ... I figure a day or two of focused practice would do it. I won 21-18 in the third game. So, of the 39 points played, reversing just three gives him the match. Assuming I played no better or worse, all he'd have to do is receive serve a bit better. A better question would be how long it would take him to be able to best Baldonado, Friend, Bin Hai Chu, or even Jimmy Butler.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 7:17pm |
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Jones was a semi-finalist ... as was I. Though I had the benefit of a more fortuitous draw. Here's the last part of his semi-final match. Edited by wturber - 07/23/2015 at 7:21pm |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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berndt_mann
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Posted: 07/23/2015 at 10:04pm |
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A better question would be how long it would take him to be able to best Baldonado, Friend, Bin Hai Chu, or even Jimmy Butler.
A day or two of focused practice? Filip would have to be, and perhaps may be, potentially precocious in the way of the hardbat, but with a day or two of focused practice with a practice partner such as Jayant Geete you might still be able to retain your three point match difference against Filip while continuing to practice that dangerous backhand underspin sometimes no spin sometimes topspin service of yours. I'm not that familiar with the hardbat games of Baldonado, Friend, or Bin Hai Chu, as I played competitively during the Ty Hoff/Lily Yip era in the late '90s-early 2000s. Jim Butler's hardbat play I have seen, and it is indeed formidable. He's currently the number one ranked HB player in the U.S., and if I'm not mistaken, the current U.S. Open HB Men's Singles Champion. His HB rating, according to Scott Gordon's www.hardbat.com website, is around 3100 and some change. Filip, I believe, would have his hands full against Mr. Butler HB/HB, though inverted/inverted he would most likely emerge victorious. Edited by berndt_mann - 07/23/2015 at 11:07pm |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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wturber
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Posted: 07/24/2015 at 12:10am |
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All he needs to do is get a better feel for that racket and expand his comfort zone a bit.
Those three are a notch below Butler. I'm a notch below those three. With a bit of work, maybe I can bridge that gap. Time will tell. |
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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wilkinru
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Posted: 07/24/2015 at 4:30am |
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You are right! Hah he came in second in 3 events. I'm still poking fun at him. |
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APW46 wrote: