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Secrets of CNT |
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liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6347 |
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Posted: 08/28/2015 at 2:57am |
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeJsyKJtQAk
Absolutely amazing, from physical training to statistic analysis to equipment. This is all we've been waiting for. Sorry for the non-speaking Chinese members here, let's see if we can get someone to translate this... Enjoy!
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GMan4911
Silver Member Joined: 08/31/2012 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 830 |
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OSP Ultimate II, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max
ITC Challenge Speed, FH/ITC Powercell Ultra 48 Max BH/Powercell Ultra 48 Max |
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wilkinru
Silver Member Joined: 04/28/2015 Location: Las Vegas Status: Offline Points: 604 |
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I lost 3 pounds just watching this.
The CNT secret: extremely hard work. Lateral exercises from hell. Edited by wilkinru - 08/28/2015 at 3:11pm |
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TB ZLF
inverted inverted |
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Leftyy
Super Member Joined: 02/14/2015 Location: Europa Status: Offline Points: 210 |
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Seems so good, I want to understand!
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Oh, ML fans are in for a harsh revelation.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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Here's my translation for it. I'm sorry if there are any typos/spelling mistakes - didn't proofread it.
Each coach trains
each player individually. Ma Long has very thin fingers, thin and soft, like a
woman's, a pianist's hands. But TT requires strong fingers and strong wrists.
Ma Long is intent on improving his backhand. If his fingers/wrist aren’t strong
enough, he will get injuries if he insists on changing his backhand technique. Currently,
we are trying to improve Ma Long’s lower body strength and explosiveness, in
addition to finger and wrist strength. When training Ma Long’s physical
ability, emphasis is placed on strength and explosiveness (silences critics who
think Ma Long’s play style revolves around power). For Zhang Jike, however, it
is speed and endurance. Zhang Jike has one of the best bodies in the team, but
his biggest problem is the number of injuries he has, especially his shoulder
injury. During closed training (for those who don’t know, closed training is
when all team members are required to follow an extremely strict regimen with
barely any freedom to do anything not on the schedule) , Zhang Jike will train
his shoulder by doing “X” motions (as seen in video) to improve his shoulder
strength, and thus decrease the possibility of shoulder problems in the future. Physical
training is extremely important in TT (obviously). For most professional TT
players, the forearm of the player’s playing arm is longer than the forearm of
the other arm. Yan An sprained his
ankle during closed training. While doing rehab exercises, the fitness coach told him that both
success and failure can become “habits” and encourages him to succeed on his
balance/foot exercise to recover his foot more quickly. Some of the rehab
treatments include submerging his foot into 0 degrees water for 10-15 minutes, massage therapy,
and balancing on one foot. Quick tip on being a coach/trainer: you must let your
student see/feel changes/improvements. Before the WTTCs, the men’s team always
has their closed trainings in Xiamen. During these closed trainings, there is a
secret. For 3 days, the main players (those who will participate
in the singles) do not do any actual training. Instead, they hold a conference with
Liu Guoliang and their coaches to discuss mental/emotional factors that may affect
their results in the WTTC. All coaches and players give their input on all the
players. So for example, Xu Xin will say what he thinks about Zhang Jike’s
playing, etc. Due to the nature of this type of discussion, which may include the
main players’ technical abilities (ie. Ma Long’s interpretation on how to do a
particular loop in a particular situation) and other special secrets, the details
are never disclosed to the public. In this video, there is a discussion on why
Zhang Jike’s results keep fluctuating after winning the Olympics. Zhang Jike
says that in theory, he should have much less pressure during team
competitions. But somehow he always fails to get into the right state of mind
during matches quickly enough. One key point that he says is that due to the fewer
number of games in a team competition (best of 5 games instead of best of 7),
he often feels that the match is already over before he has even gotten into the
right state of mind. Even when he wins, he says that he is not comfortable. LGL
then talks about how his rebellious nature and over self-centeredness could be
the root of his inability to manage pressure during team competitions. Xu Xin
says that Zhang Jike plays his best when he feels lots of pressure. LGL is also
proud of the fact that the Chinese team can work together as a team during
these conferences to truly help out any main player so that the team gets the
glory. He says that if it were any other country with the world’s top 5 players
in a single room, they would not be able to do what the Chinese team can do –
which is to give truthful and honest insights to maximally help a teammate. The
reason is simple: everybody wants to be the champion.
In the video, Ma
Long went to find Li Xiaodong (who is the most experienced coach on the team)
to ask him about his rhythm control during his matches, specifically on whether
his rhythm is too fast or too slow when he wins/loses matches. The research
team also helps out on this. For example, they will calculate the “ball-picking”
time of Ma Long. The “ball-picking” time is the time Ma Long spends to pick the
ball up between each point during a match. One match, among many that they
calculated, was the one against Timo Boll during the finals of the 2010 WTTTC
(which Ma Long lost). From what they discovered, the average ball-picking time is
26-27 seconds when Ma Long wins, and 22 seconds when he loses. The best matches
he plays are when his ball-picking time is 31 seconds (such as during the Asian
Championships against Zhang Jike). Apparently the ball-picking time is 17
seconds when he plays his worst. Ma Long is stunned when he hears that he takes
up to 30-40 seconds between each point. But what Li Xiaodong says is that his ball-picking
time fluctuates too much, and wishes him to control his rhythm more. He wants
him to use his “winning” rhythm more, and that when he is trailing behind, to
slow the rhythm down so that he has ample time to think and grasp the momentum.
Research team: Analyzing Boll:
from nerves to overall summary and play style and personality His match with
Fan Zhendong was used in the video. For the particular point that was shown in
the video, Boll primarily won the point from the down-the-line shot he executed
with his backhand. They make “trajectory graphs” that the Chinese players study
often before playing the match. Comments such as “average short game ability”
are also common. It takes about 7-8 hours to finish analyzing one match. Every shot
is recorded, discussed, and analyzed. Li Xiaodong commends the research team,
saying that they are able to persist and do such a boring job that earns them
no fame or accomplishments.
Equipment: CNT members are extremely selective about
their equipment. Tens of types of blades are given to the CNT every year to
try. It often takes 2-3 modifications to satisfy them. Hundreds of thousands of
blades are given to the CNT each year (wtf mind-blowing). Each blade in the CNT
is “vastly different” in feel. At the time the video is taken, Zhang Jike uses
40.5 degrees on his Hurricane. Even though the DHS machines already have very
low uncertainty values, Zhang Jike can still feel it when the hardness isn’t
perfectly even or when the hardness isn’t what he wants. CNT main players are
also extremely picky about the shoes. Different shoes can be made for different
footwork characteristics or different shapes. Modifications for grip and even
appearance can also be done. For instance, Zhang Jike wants his left shoe to
have the letter J on the back of his shoe, with 3 stars underneath it to symbolize
Grand Slam winner LOL, and his right shoe to have the letter “K” but with only
one star underneath it, accompanied by 2 question marks that symbolize future
goals. Zhang Jike’s feet is also unique in that size 25.5 is too small for him
while size 26 is too big. So the team buys 25.5 for him, but also buys an
expander in which they put the shoe for 3 days to have it expanded to 25.75.
Li Sun: He believes that world champions, and
especially Grand Slam winners, are people with such talent and something in
them that cannot be taught. Wang Nan, Zhang Yining, and Li Xiaoxia are all his
students who have gotten Grand Slams. Li Xiaoxia says that Li Sun not only
taught her table tennis, but also taught her how to surmount difficulties, and
the state of mind she should have to do so. Edited by MLfan - 08/28/2015 at 4:39pm |
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Argothman
Silver Member Joined: 12/20/2013 Location: The stars Status: Offline Points: 551 |
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Thank you for the hard work MLFan! Every time I see you on this forum you're very helpful, I appreciate it!
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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42andbackpains
Silver Member Joined: 10/05/2014 Location: NYC Status: Offline Points: 623 |
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Very informative. Very very good work. Thanks for the hard work.
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Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
OSP Ultimate II 88 grams FH Dianchi D w/ Secret Sauce BH Butterfly T05 Red USATT rating keeps going down |
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rocketman222
Gold Member Joined: 01/06/2007 Location: Walnut Creek,CA Status: Offline Points: 1152 |
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That is very helpful MLfan, i never in my wildest dreams would have thought about finger strengthening exercises, i will go do some finger pushups now :)
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Giangt
Super Member Joined: 03/30/2012 Location: Denmark Status: Offline Points: 434 |
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Interesting how they structure and analyse everything. The physical coach is given YAn An a hard time after his injury. Good he is on track again.
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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What piques my interest is the time spent picking up the ball between each point. Ma Lin was also very famous, or infamous rather, for taking a long time for each point. I heard coaches say that taking a lot of time between each point is a strategy against players who are pumped up and at their "excited" stage. By taking a lot of time, you wear down their excitement lol.
Edited by MLfan - 08/29/2015 at 1:20am |
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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Btw, if anybody notices any mistakes in my translation, please correct me!
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liulin04
Premier Member Joined: 10/20/2003 Location: US Status: Offline Points: 6347 |
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great job MLF, the translation is spot-on!
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
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Are you sure that the meaning, not translation, is correct for "Hundreds of thousands of blades are given to the CNT each year" |
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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zhijie
Member Joined: 08/10/2009 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 76 |
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Translation is correct. At 23:20, the person said "几十万", means "few hundred thousands". |
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HappySpinner
Beginner Joined: 07/07/2015 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 12 |
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Thanks op and thanks mlfan for translating!
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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Haha I was a bit shocked at the "few hundred thousand blades" too lol...
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MLfan
Super Member Joined: 04/23/2015 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 486 |
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I think there is another episode of this on YouTube...will try to get round to translating it in a bit, if nobody has yet already :)
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V-Griper
Silver Member Joined: 09/19/2011 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 879 |
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Thanks for the translation- Look at the youtube channel that the vid is from for others. Edited by V-Griper - 09/01/2015 at 12:06pm |
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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
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Olio
Super Member Joined: 03/27/2012 Location: UK / France Status: Offline Points: 237 |
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I was also very surprised at this...
Please keep the capital letters (MLfan), as I read is as mifan (= rice)!
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kevo
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: ireland Status: Offline Points: 471 |
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Really interesting, MLFan. Thanks so much for your hard work in translating. Whenever I bemoan how the internet is ruining modern life, something like this video--and your translation--comes along and makes me think, 'Wow, without the internet, I would never have known or enjoyed reading something so interesting.' Again, thanks!
On a side note, I wonder is there a cultural component to the idea of freely critiquing one's teammates as the CNT does. I, for example, cannot imagine it done in my workplace in Ireland even when discussing critical incidents etc. I suppose the idea of CNT players viewing themselves as a 'team/group' must transcend individual desires/resentments etc. (Not to say for one minute that underneath it all, each may be raging at their teammate's assessments!)
Edited by kevo - 09/03/2015 at 6:52am |
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Bran
Super Member Joined: 06/18/2013 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 367 |
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It's not just cultural. You may benefit from knowing this or that player's weakness, but you get a much bigger advantage from having each member of the group telling you yours, especially when you have a large group.
It's in everybody's advantage to share the findings. So it's a perfectly rational decision, in the economics sense of the word. |
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Tinykin
Platinum Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 2338 |
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Plus these guys have been through several selection processes over their lives. They probably have learned some humility in that time.
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Blade:
Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
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notfound123
Gold Member Joined: 01/18/2008 Location: MD, USA Status: Offline Points: 1026 |
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"Hundreds of thousands of blades are given to the CNT each year" I personally don't think this is 100% true. I understand they have direct access to the DHS facilities. They must be referring to the batches that are set aside for the CNT members. Those batches are then getting tested/weighted/bent etc and best of the best are picked for the players to inspect. They made it sound like DHS mails 100K blades to Ma Long's home address for him to choose from. |
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Victor_the_cleaner
Gold Member Joined: 12/26/2014 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 1428 |
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What an amazing text! ML should set up an account for donations, and I will donate to you and everyone else who spends the time to do a quality translation. I am not joking, think about it, even if its voluntary you will get a few bucks for a new rubber.
I don't know what is with these chinese texts, but I always find them so deep and abstract and revealing things that nobody else thinks about. And now, finally, I feel redemption for the time I spend arguing in a couple of threads about Ma Long's strength and him slowing down when he is losing. I was right and you was wrong, whoever you were, so, yeah, in yo face! Zeio is really helpful in this too. We need a thread with original chinese texts and then the translations, and only an admin, zeio and MLfan (and whoever else translates) should have rights to post there, so we don't get the thread littered with the annoying comments of people.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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What I found useful from this video is that ML wins more points by taking a longer break while picking up the ball. Very useful for myself to slow down the pace of the game as well. I noticed a lot of times when I slow it down and take a breath, I can focus on my serve and 3rd ball attack.
Very very important piece of information IMO. |
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minja
Member Joined: 07/08/2015 Location: here Status: Offline Points: 93 |
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There's a guy where I play who does something similar to what ma long does of wiping the hand close to the net before every point. It's annoying and disrupts the general timing. I think I play around 10 players there and the only one who does this all the time is him. With the others it's like there's a natural rhythm that's the same and everything flows easily. It's almost as if you are doing something together. With him it's like when I try to have this same rhythm and speed I always get from him a stop, a barrier, a "wait until I'm ready and then we proceed". I find myself time and time again thinking "ok let's play the next point" then look at him and he's close to the net cleaning or doing something. It's like a stoppage to the natural flow and an attempt to be the one who dictates pace. Ma long does this greatly, I think it's a good part of why he's number one. But it's like a dirty trick, I wouldn't be proud of doing this. Edited by minja - 09/02/2015 at 3:40pm |
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igorponger
Premier Member Joined: 07/29/2006 Location: Everywhere Status: Offline Points: 3252 |
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MODERN SLAVERY. ILL DESTINY FOR MA_LONG.
Poor Chinese boys. No family amenities, no sex, no food luxury. Antique Rome's Slavery does look to live a better destiny. Feel really sorry for the boys. Playing pingpang professionally is a bitter earning, grave losses. . Yes. Edited by igorponger - 09/16/2015 at 1:46pm |
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berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
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Should you encounter an opponent who takes his own sweet time picking up balls or wiping his hand close to the net, there is a remedy, but it is somewhat drastic and rather unusual.
In your table tennis bag, bring along an electric cordless toothbrush, some toothpaste, some dental floss, and some mouthwash. While your opponent is busy picking up a ball or wiping off his hand, proceed to floss every one of your thirty-two teeth, brush each of them thoroughly, front, top, and back, hoist your mouthwash, gargle conspicuously, walk over to your opponent's side of the table, and spit out the contents of your dental hygiene next to where he assumes his ready position. This should solve the problem. If it doesn't, you have probably engaged a bigger table tennis a-hole than you ever bargained for. |
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bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
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