TTEdge Executing Table Tennis Shots Series

idk wrote: Brett Clarke wrote: BRS wrote: Seriously NL, you think it is too soon for him to do fh-bh switching, or randomly placed feeds to his FH?   He's not going to play a super athletic style, I agree, but the man wants to play, not just develop a perfect stroke for balls hit identically to the same spot. If you don't learn to adjust your swing and or your body to meet the ball under real conditions it is hard to adjust later. Take it from somebody who has spent 95% of his training time with a robot. Maybe this video was only an example and he already gets plenty of live play, the video didn't say. BRS, training with a robot 95% of the time isn't optimal and has a lot of issues. Training with a robot 30% of the time is more realistic. But when you started out, your shots weren't the best, now you can play proper strokes on both sides. Yes, we have to translate this into match play however it will take time. NextLevel is talking a lot of sense imo, but I have an open mind towards this topic as well. I said I am a fan of the Korean strategy as I've seen results myself. Anyway, we have recently moved more towards footwork in LTT and let's do more. If you don't have access to partners, we should think creatively about how to improve your footwork. For example, pivot and cross footwork combos and more shadow play. Let me work on it. Cheers, Brett To clarify, when you say the Korean strategy, are you referring to drilling to death?

In his prior post, Brett said that Koreans do footwork off the table without hitting balls for weeks/months before learning how to move at the table. This makes them move better when asked to do footwork drills with their strokes later.

BRS wrote: Seriously NL, you think it is too soon for him to do fh-bh switching, or randomly placed feeds to his FH?   He's not going to play a super athletic style, I agree, but the man wants to play, not just develop a perfect stroke for balls hit identically to the same spot. If you don't learn to adjust your swing and or your body to meet the ball under real conditions it is hard to adjust later. Take it from somebody who has spent 95% of his training time with a robot. Maybe this video was only an example and he already gets plenty of live play, the video didn't say.

Andy is a pretty aggressive learner and he has been doing varied drills in lessons with coaches.   His condition and fitness level haven't helped him move easily, and my view is that in general, he has tried to hit the ball too hard and fast early and therefore hasn't developed a feel for ball control or grooved a proper stroke outside of bounded practice. On the other hand, he hasn't been playing that long either and we all do this stuff a bit differently so maybe he will pick up ball control later.

It's hard to break the addiction to hitting the ball hard once it sets in. I wish I knew how to break it smoothly in adult learners.

When asked to move, unless you have a good stroke and are ready for it, the first things that tend to fall apart are the body rotation and the backswing. So my preference is that someone have their stroke/timing at a decent level before building in movement.

Where I may agree with you is if the coach had him move pretty slowly so he could do the footwork correctly at his own pace and build in the right backswing elements consistently. But he does his multiball at a far faster pace than I ever have. It might explain my issues but I am also sure the pace explains some of his. I have seen 2700 players hit to kids at his level and you would be amazed at how slow they go with the kids on multiball. But we all want to be good yesterday, but fail to realize that rushing hurts us more than it helps.

I disagree completely on movement and think that is part of the problem, not the solution. Too many people think of TT as exercise before they develop good technical strokes. I would almost prefer that he work on snapping his elbow first and then go on to co-ordinating a larger swing step by step. I consider the elbow snap and timing it properly the key to having a loop that works. After that, then you can work about bringing in body rotation and power enhancers etc. But of course, everyone thinks about this a little differently.

This video is an analysis of Andy's forehand topspin. I've found that many learning adults struggle to get the timing right on their strokes. They often start the backswing too early and the stroke just doesn't look right and inevitably lacks spin and power.

Ok then I think we need a rewind.

Edited by V-Griper - 09/13/2015 at 10:24am

Brett Clarke wrote: Ringer84 wrote: For me, I don't see how it's possible to ever have a backswing that is "too long". Either you hit the ball on time or you don't. A long backswing does not imply that you will finish your stroke across your body, and a short backswing doesn't imply that you WON'T cross your body. As long as you have the ability to hit the ball on time, take as big of a backswing as you want. Ma Long is known as having a "big stroke", but if you watch him play matches he adjusts the length of his backswing to the speed of the incoming ball. I dunno. Ringer84, I also feel that the size of the swing should match the situation. If you get a high and slow easy ball, your swing should be huge to make sure you hit a winner. On the other hand, if the ball is coming low and fast, the size of your swing may just be a few inches. Cheers, Brett

I know it is heresy to disagree, but I think for the overwhelming number of players on this board, with limited practice time, a shorter stroke will land more often and win more points than a powerful long stroke. Now if you get to play 5 or 6 days a week or have the resources of CNT then yeah my idea is wrong. And I realize that nextlevelast may have that kind time. NL has a beautiful bh. If his FH looked that smooth then I would not say this stroke is too long, but....

BRS,

Yes I have. I think its a stroke that people should try out. They may be surprised by the results.

Edited by zeio - 09/13/2015 at 4:16pm

NextLevel wrote: vanjr wrote: I agree w v gripper. Stroke is way too long. Way, way too long. Brett's is much more classic. If your opponent blocks that stroke you are dead. Believe me, I am the king of the over stroke. It all depends on your approach to the easy ball - that was not a rally stroke.  As long as I am putting the easy ball away, I have no problem with big strokes.  Others prefer surgery to guillotine on easy balls and that works too.

For me, I don't see how it's possible to ever have a backswing that is "too long". Either you hit the ball on time or you don't. A long backswing does not imply that you will finish your stroke across your body, and a short backswing doesn't imply that you WON'T cross your body. As long as you have the ability to hit the ball on time, take as big of a backswing as you want. Ma Long is known as having a "big stroke", but if you watch him play matches he adjusts the length of his backswing to the speed of the incoming ball.

I dunno.

V-Griper wrote: Well two things from my perspective.  One, I think that the stroke is too big which is what I think BC is partially indicating. Shay put up a high slow loop which you have seen billion times so you hauled off on it. However higher level players generally won't leave it that high and slow for you. You would need to have a smaller more efficient stroke, with less back swing, that is closer to counter hit. Basically BCs demo shot or some variation thereof. Not telling you anything you don't know but just adding to the pile.

I agree w v gripper. Stroke is way too long. Way, way too long. Brett's is much more classic. If your opponent blocks that stroke you are dead. Believe me, I am the king of the over stroke.

NextLevel wrote: Camera angles are horrible things - I can see the correct technique in this video now... go to around 6:26.