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Equipment and Coaching

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a23096713 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09/27/2015 at 9:25am
Just for those who teaching others, particularly the coaches that deal with younger players.

Does many of your younger students questions a lot about what you use?

I constantly getting asked by students at school asking why in the world I'd be using, what the students call noobie rubbers, ex: Flextra, uQ, Grandy. They all think i'd should be using some sort of powerful rubbers like Tenergy.

I imply because I am a defensive chopper and doesn't need such type of equipment. I also tell them teaching racket has lots wear and tears so having those are impractical.

I am just curious. Has many of the younger players seems to constantly associate High Level player with equipment like Tenergy? I've been searching around I also seems to not able to find players higher level like top 20, using something that is NOT Tenergy, (except Chinese Players)

Would you recommend younger player to switch to something like a tenergy when they reach higher level? I find it difficult as it's more important in skills than equipment itself, but I can't help noticing if you know and watch table tennis. Tenergy is like a norm to the pro class players.

What do most you coaches think of this?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 10:07am
Power looping is the dominant game, spin is its name and Tenergy is the equipment. Of course, Tenergy really means tensioned grippy inverted rubber
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wilkinru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 10:33am
Larry Hodges mentions in his blog that he thinks it's okay to let his students Tenergy once they have a good forehand loop.

They kids usually love it too. Now he is Butterfly sponsored but just the fact he gives kids the fast/new equipment says all I needed to know.

As long as one practices correctly and gets enough practice in I think it is probably a good thing to start using the better equipment. There are levels of speed you can graduate too even - start with thinner sponge or the 'slower' version or the softer sponge.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 4:05pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Power looping is the dominant game, spin is its name and Tenergy is the equipment. Of course, Tenergy really means tensioned grippy inverted rubber


I agree wholeheartedly with NextLevel:  today's table tennis is based upon the questionable serve, followed by the superduperhyperturbomegaboosted power loop. 

Back in the day, and the day wasn't that far back, maybe 15 years ago, newbies of whatever age and gender started off with Flextra or Dany III or, if showing potential, Sriver on an all-wood Primorac blade.
Those days are gone, never to return.

Today's table tennis is pricey, and if you plan to compete at the international level before becoming a neurosurgeon, an arbitration lawyer, or a concert violinist, you gotta start at the earliest age you can (maybe 3 or 4) with the fastest, spinniest most expensive equipment currently available.  This generally means Tenergy on the OFF+ blade of your or your coach's choice. Then, 10 years hence, or, given the development of faster, spinner, more boostable stuff 3 weeks hence, you can more easily (one hopes) switch to even faster, spinnier, and more lethal equipment.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 5:52pm
I would say that the kind of rubber kids use is not necessarily that important one way or the other, as long as they play a lot and have decent coaching along the way.  Adult beginners and kid beginners are pretty different I think (and of course it depends on what you mean by beginner, and I often seem to use that term to levels a lot of people would call pretty much intermediate).

Part of the reason table tennis is pricey now is that it is illegal to speed glue cheaper rubber and bring it up to quite high levels of performance. Sometimes I am tempted to find a sheet Bryce or Sriver and speed glue it just to remind myself of what it is like compared to the Tenergy I use now.  I am pretty sure the glued Bryce would be better.  Part of the reason I don't bother is that I actually like not gluing, it was a pain to do it each time I played, and even now a sheet of Bryce is $63 (best rubber sold in 2000).  Plain old Sriver is $40 from Megaspin and there has been nothing superduper about it for a very long time.  So part of the price increase is from manufacturers.

The game 15 years ago was not all that different from now, only nobody questioned serves.  Even with a smaller ball and 21 point games.






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vvk1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 6:16pm
Why is Person coaching WLQ in the above match?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 7:02pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Why is Person coaching WLQ in the above match?
It's champions league, so maybe they were playing on the same team? I know that both Waldner and Persson have a lot of friends in China, so that might be a factor.

I think Persson is coaching in the Middle East somewhere right now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 7:11pm
NO TENERGY...

Most Chinese midrated students would only use 729-FX Friendship 1.5 - 1.8 thick sponge for a sure, controllable play. No Tenergy.

Such is memories of a coach of Russia, he travelled repeatedly to china TT Academy not long ago.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 7:21pm
Originally posted by a23096713 a23096713 wrote:

Just for those who teaching others, particularly the coaches that deal with younger players.

Does many of your younger students questions a lot about what you use?


First, you need to keep in mind that children (including teenagers) are very prone to fads and peer pressure, as well as adulation of their favorite adults (e.g., professional players they like).  So there are a lot of reasons why they would want to go for the "big gun" rubbers like Tenergy, regardless of whether it is actually useful to their game.

Here's my advice: first, if you think a particular rubber is especially well suited to a student's game, then you should push that.  If there is no strong reason for you to push a particular rubber, and the student really wants something (like Tenergy), then you should probably let him have his way.  Of course, if this rubber doesn't work out for him (it hinders his game), then you need to get him to change to something else. 

Keep in mind that just asking questions and looking at alternatives is a normal part of the learning process.  Just because a student asks about other rubbers doesn't mean he really wants to do that and you may find some kids don't switch after they get your approval or make the switch and then switch back.

If you students want an explanation, tell them that equipment is less important than good technique and tactics (intelligent play).  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 10:19pm
I yield to no member of this or any other table tennis forum in my respect for good technique, tactics, and intelligent play. 

However....I defy any member of this or any other forum to name an international level player, let alone a high level club player or elite level player, who plays with any of the "unknown" rubbers named in a separate thread to this forum.  Even if, say Cyklin were boosted beyond belief, I doubt that Wang, Fang, Xu, Boll, or Freitas could do a great deal of damage with it, let alone your typical club deity.

Equipment used to be sensibly aligned with good techniques, tactics, and intelligent play.  But to maintain that equipment is not as important as the above mentioned skills is tantamount to disregarding the various types of Tenergy, Hurricane National Team Special Whatever, and every other offensive rubber now or since Sriver and Mark V were born as irrelevant to the way table tennis has changed over the past five decades.

If students want an explanation as to why they should be using Tenergy (and probably boosting it) from the get-go, tell them that if they don't they will be, sooner or later, at a serious disadvantage against those who do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote benfb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/27/2015 at 10:56pm
Berndt, what you're saying about ultimate competition is probably true, but that doesn't mean it should apply to students, particularly young students. When they reach the 2300 level, by all means get them Tenergy. Before then is a different matter.

Interestingly enough, even those good players don't always depend on super rubbers. The recent Seattle open was won by a 2600 player over a 2700 player. I know that the 2600 player didn't boost his rubber and had ordinary hurricane in the forehand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote a23096713 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:53am
I kind of can see why my students would be wanting something like a tenergy for themselves. In the city I am teaching, there are junior national team players that they compete with. I don't know what ultimate level is. I can see why they feel necessary to compete within those as the national team got cheap tenergy to use. I actually had the chance to see the national junior team member's game against high level players. There is a clear differences against a normal rubber, especially japanese students love doing rally stroke + smashing based attack.

I'd prefer them to learn the Chinese way like I did with 729s. But it simply isn't popular in a country like Japan who has very little interest in Chinese rubber. It also doesn't suit the typical Japanese style very well, rally type stroke instead of more power + spin stroke.

Thanks for the input guys, appreciate it.
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BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX
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