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Receiving a fast serve |
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kitkit890 
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Joined: 06/13/2015 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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 Topic: Receiving a fast servePosted: 09/28/2015 at 8:55am |
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Hello guys. A fast serve has been my weakness since I started playing TT. Although I've already mastered receiving a fast topspin serve by blocking it (or chopping sometimes), I am now faced with a new problem.
This friend of mine who has more TT experience than me has a variety of serves in his arsenal. be it heavy/light backspin, a tomahawk, pendulum and reverse pendulum, he has it. My problem is when he does his fast pendulum serve. When I block it, it has an overwhelming amount of sidespin that the ball throws off outside the table (in my case, my right side). I can't chop it since it goes to my backhand and I don't have full mastery of the RPB yet, so I have difficulty receiving it. My friend realized it as my weakness, so he has this 50% chance of winning an easy point everytime he serves. The only time I can return it is when I luckily guess that he'll use that serve and I can easily use my RPB against it. He uses the same arm movement when doing a slow, spinny pendulum serve and a fast, also spinny one, so I can't read it that effectively. Any tips? Thanks in advance. :)
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Blade: 729 Bomb (penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane III Neo BH: 729 Focus III Snipe |
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NextLevel
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:10am |
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Racket angles! Sidespin is not that overwhelming - you are just aiming too far to the backhand. Aim more for the center of the table or for the forehand side and you will be fine.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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suds79
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Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:13am |
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Well theoretically, you should be able to loop all those if they're fast & off the table. :)... Theoretically.
I played a guy who I've played once before last night. He serves a variety of long serves heavy varying of spin. The wanna be Xu Xin in me tried to attack and/or loop anything, as an experiment, off the table. I think I hit about 30% in which is not good and promptly got beat. Here's the thing. Until you're able to do that more consistently, your goal has to be "Just get the serve back on the table." Get past the serve, get into the rally and try to win from there. Don't psych yourself out. You mentioned Tomahawk, pendulum and reverse pendulum. Well for starters a Tomahawk & Reverse pendulum puts the same type of side-spin on the ball. The motion just looks different. All these serves he's giving you have what sounds like heavy side. So get your blade on the side it's spinning and just adjust for top, pure side or back and block it back. I would say take note of his serves. Really study for example what typically happens when he does his tomahawk serve. Does he do a side/back variation the majority of the time? Do you typically block those back in the net or long? You're well on your way of getting the information you need for next time.
Edited by suds79 - 09/28/2015 at 9:16am |
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kitkit890
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Joined: 06/13/2015 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:21am |
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Thanks for the advice! It gave me ideas. :)
@NextLevel: His fast pendulum serve is always long and hits at the far edge of my side of the table, and has a low bounce at that point so I am forced to do TPB when I get surprised, which leads to it getting thrown off my right side. @suds79: His other serves, namely his tomahawk, pendulum and reverse pendulum serves, given slow, I could return (and even return it wherever side I wanted to) but it's his fast serves that I couldn't return. Especially his fast pendulum serve which is fast and has sidespin.
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Blade: 729 Bomb (penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane III Neo BH: 729 Focus III Snipe |
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NextLevel
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:30am |
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You are standing too close to the table. You are supposed to be far enough to receive fast serves comfortably and close enough to be able to STEP in when the serve is short. It takes some practice and there is no perfect median. Yesterday, I played a kid who aced me a couple of times with a serve to the backhand (my backhand is my strongest shot). He served me so much to the short forehand I was struggling to get there and his serve to the backhand was fast and deep with disguised topspin. So you need to continue to find the right degree of distance you need for serves from a particular opponent while having your default distance.
You should also learn to read serve depth by looking at the first bounce on your opponent's side. That will help you. The closer to your opponent's side the first bounce is, the longer the serve will be if it has quality. Shorter serves have bounces closer to the net except the opponent is at a very high level in serving. Finally, a serve that is supposed to be short but drifts half long is slow enough that one can adjust to it and attack it. Edited by NextLevel - 09/28/2015 at 9:35am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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suds79
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Joined: 08/20/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 878 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:32am |
Okay I take it you're both right handed. (sorry a lefty here. Let me think about this) Okay got it. Yeah you need to definitely stand in your backhand corner. So you guys should be opposite corners. It comes fast & long. That's a simple forehand block touching the side of the ball and you adjust your racket angle for backspin or top. Aim for, like NL said, either the middle of the table or the left side of the table. You just have to account for the ball ending up going more to the right off your paddle than you'd expect normally. Wouldn't hurt to practice a semi (don't go crazy. Get the feel of it) aggressive counter drive off the serve also. That's what you'll want to transition to in time anyways. What you're dealing with is just short term. If this guy is your buddy and you play him regularly, you will find service (at least it is for me & my training partner. And service is one of my strong suits) plays less & less of a role over time as you both will know what the other guy is doing and know how to return them successfully.
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a23096713
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Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:34am |
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Are you a left handed player? or are you doing a passive block type of stroke? it's very unlikely the ball can flew off that far to the right as cross court is the longest distance. perhaps you are aiming too high when you are blocking?
Classic J Pen Player uses punch block against side spin fast serve very often. I strongly recommend using punch block or if you are really advance and want fancy, Ma Lin's side sweep chop block can work as well. But I suspect your racket angel is way too high when you block. Tactical wise, a faster down the line serve you'd usually block it straight down the line by borrowing the speed and force the opponent to run forehand shot. and follow by hitting toward the backhand side of opponent (assuming a right handed opponent) if you try to hit down the straight line. you probably would have very less chance to make the ball goes off the right side of your table if you follow that tactic. Edited by a23096713 - 09/28/2015 at 9:36am |
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
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suds79
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 9:42am |
+1 Yeah for sure. Stand comfortably away from the table. Left foot forward, right foot back. This will kinda put you in an open, natural forehand hitting position for those long serves. Then on a lot of serves short, step in with the right foot kind under the table and it transitions nicely into an over the table backhand loop. If you watch a lot of pros play, you'll see this done a lot. At least that's what I've noticed.  |
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NextLevel
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 10:02am |
I wouldn't say comfortably because that can give the wrong impression - there are also players who place their racket on the table when receiving serves like Timothy Wang and I believe Timo Boll. It all depends on how you train to receive, but the optimal distance for most people is to start with their racket hand being able to rest on the edge of the table, or at least to be able to take one step and get to the table. IF you are a forehand dominant receiver or have great footwork to move over to the forehand side, you can stand on the extreme left. IF you are backhand dominant, more to the middle of the table. It makes sense to have your racket hand foot even just a bit back so that you can step forward and still have some balance. You mostly step in with your racket hand foot because that gets you closer to the ball with more control for most points on the table. Some people also start further back because they want to be able to gain momentum and bounce. In the end, there are general rules but it takes some tweaking to figure out what works for you.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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a23096713
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Joined: 08/20/2004 Location: Japan Status: Offline Points: 250 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 10:15am |
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Well just for technical view on stance and position, I understand that the power blocking style dies away as most famous penhold player retired into history. But Player like Chiang Peng Lung in the 2000s standing close to table due to his famous punch block style. You need the right skill for the right stance. If you got that freaking awesome punch block from Chiang, there is nothing wrong standing closer to the table (assuming you got his precision)
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Chop, Chop, and Counter Loop!
BTY Cutlass + Tackiness D + Feint OX TSP Astron Yellow + Yasaka Original + Nittaku pimplemini One TSP Yanagi + UQ + BTY OX |
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bes
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Joined: 04/26/2014 Location: Oklahoma Status: Offline Points: 201 |
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Posted: 09/28/2015 at 2:59pm |
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There are, as discussed, more than one way to handle long serves.
Below is some really good general advice I got from an excellent coach really helped. Fortunately it helps regardless of your style. Pretend EVERY serve will be long. This helps in several ways. 1) It dictates that you take your ready position at a distance and location where YOU can handle a fast serve. This will be different for each player and will depend on their reactions speed, foot speed, chosen (preferred) response, and general comfort level. 2) It also means you should be on your toes and keyed up looking/ready for a fast serve. I think as many fast serves are bungled due to surprise as by the speed, spin, or location. 3) It means you should have a chosen, preferred response. This simplifies your decision making. Example: If you decide to loop, be fully prepared to quickly read the spin, determine the location, move into position (while adjusting/fine tuning the above), then land (end up) in a balanced position with your blade ready to stroke forward. When a fast serve does come, the above mindset will (ideally!) keep you from being surprised, tensing up, rushing, reaching, or dodging. When serves are short, it is pretty easy to step forward to drop, flip, or push them. More thoughts: As has been mentioned (you've gotten some great advice), think of serves as having a primary (Top, Dead, or Under) spin and a secondary (sidespin mainly) spin. The secondary spin tends to be critical only when you are trying to go for edges. If you are struggling with long serves, aim for the middle (ignoring the secondary spin) and concentrate on reading the primary spin. Spinning the ball heavily yourself increases your margin of error. Once you get the hang/feel for spinning them back towards the middle, you should soon be able to gain control over placement, then add more power. Don't start getting exotic too soon - first get them back on the table and give your opponent a chance to make a mistake! Good Luck! bes |
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kitkit890
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Joined: 06/13/2015 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 69 |
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Posted: 09/30/2015 at 9:27am |
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Woah, thanks for all the input guys. I appreciate it real much. Distancing myself from the table really helped. I was able to backhand smash his serve easily! Although not perfect, but still, it was my first time returning that serve of his awhile ago. Thank you very much!
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Blade: 729 Bomb (penhold)
FH: DHS Hurricane III Neo BH: 729 Focus III Snipe |
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kitkit890 wrote: