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Butterfly NA and ST blades

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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Butterfly NA and ST blades
    Posted: 10/13/2015 at 4:20pm
So of late, I have been wondering if I might do better with a ST handle.  (I have tried this experiment about once every five years and it never works out well, but for some reason I persist in wondering.  That is another question for another thread).

So to do the experiment right, I decided I should get a blade as much like my currents ones as possible.  I use a Viscaria, so there are two obvious choices -- TBS which comes in ST, and ZJK-ALC.  I like the ZJK-ALC a lot in FL, it is actually closer to old Viscarias than new Viscarias, I think mainly because they have the right weight that I like, 88-92g.  Also, if as usual I find that ST handles don't help me at all, I figure it will be very easy to sell a nearly new ZJK-ALC. 

So I go to Butterfly NA website, and of course they only have them in FL (as with many other popular blades they sell).  But they have a place on their website where you can supposedly special order things (click on Contact Us and a Special Orders tab appears).  There it says this:

 

Special Orders

CAN’T FIND THE BTY PRODUCT YOU ARE LOOKING FOR?

Look no further! Whether you need a hard to find rubber thickness, an obscure handle style, or a blade you can’t even pronounce…..if Butterfly still makes it, we can get it! Simply fill out the form below providing us with a short product description and where you saw the Butterfly item. We will contact you with a quote and an approximate delivery date.


So I say to myself, cool, hope springs eternal.  So I write them if they can get me a ZJK-ALC in ST.  I know they make them in Japan.

So you can imagine my amazement when they write back to say "

Sorry but we only have the FL handle available.

Best regards,

Ken


What is the point of having a special order page if you are only going to write and tell me that you don't have them in stock?  I wrote back to say, yes, I could see that on the website, but perhaps you could ORDER one for me???  You know, one of those "obscure handle styles" -- STRAIGHT!!!!  Much used by European players?  (Only I didn't include those last two insulting sentences).

So now I will see if they actually want to sell a blade to a person who has been a local customer for decades.  C'mon, how rare can this thing be? 

This is the problem with Butterfly's idiotic policy of having only one official dealer per country (or continent); if that dealer ain't so great, you are more or less out of options.




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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 4:25pm
Now I have heard back.

"We will check and see if it is available for special order."


Now the interesting question will be, what price will they try to get for it?

Prediction:  They will write back and say, no, we cannot possibly obtain this blade with a ST handle.  That is simply impossible. 

I further predict that they will suggest that perhaps I should get the super ZLC version, which (they will imply) is far better than the ALC version (after all it has the word super in it) and this blade only costs around $400 or so (a bargain at any price).  All the cool players are using it (oddly enough, not ZJK, but that is another topic). 

Of course, I know very well that those blades are different and I very much prefer ALC for very good reasons, but I predict they will treat me like an idiot and try to up-sell me with a blade I personally think is not very good (it's an opinion, but I know exactly what I want).

We will see.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote viva Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 4:46pm
option 2: use a forwarding service and order from japan.
My trade feedback here:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40170&title=viva-buy-sell-feedback
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 42andbackpains Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 4:47pm
Baal get a trustworthy forum member from Asia or Europe to order it for you. Its a stock item in those countries...and you wouldnt have to pay for the special order prices. 

Mind is willing, but the back goes out too often :P
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 4:56pm
I may end up resorting to that.  Anybody here able to help me out?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 4:59pm
i went to japan and dropped by tt-japan and picked one up myself

i might be doing a similar trip in january?

:)


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 5:05pm
Originally posted by in2spin in2spin wrote:

i went to japan and dropped by tt-japan and picked one up myself

i might be doing a similar trip in january?

:)


 
hmmm... I might try to talk you into picking up something for me
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 5:10pm
i was afraid of something like that happening.............

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 5:15pm
Originally posted by in2spin in2spin wrote:

i was afraid of something like that happening.............

:)
 
Embarrassed
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 5:39pm
I have this disease in reverse with flare handles. I think I have finally cured myself of it. I sanded my flares into straights and concluded that flares had to be conical flares to work, and there was no point in all that work.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/13/2015 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

So of late, I have been wondering if I might do better with a ST handle.  (I have tried this experiment about once every five years and it never works out well, but for some reason I persist in wondering.  That is another question for another thread).


Flared handles allow you to use the tip of your fingers more easily (along with your palm), while straight handles allow you to use the middle and bottom portions of your fingers more easily.  In general, if you have flexible fingers and flexible wrist and you like to vary the spin of your shots, then flared handle is ideal (ZJK, Waldner).  If you like consistency (especially in countering) and have strong fingers, then straight handle is the best choice (Ovcharov, Boll).  So it depends on your game quite a bit.



Edited by roundrobin - 10/13/2015 at 5:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 1:04am
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

Originally posted by in2spin in2spin wrote:

i went to japan and dropped by tt-japan and picked one up myself

i might be doing a similar trip in january?

:)


 
hmmm... I might try to talk you into picking up something for me

Are you already taking requests lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 2:11am
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

 In general, if you have flexible fingers and flexible wrist and you like to vary the spin of your shots, then flared handle is ideal (ZJK, Waldner).

So if you like to play like Waldner, use a FL handle... although he used a ST? Confused
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 2:31am
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

 
So if you like to play like Waldner, use a FL handle... although he used a ST? Confused


He used flared handle when he was here in L.A. for the Gilbert Cup.  I had one of his blades from back then, a Banda Waldner.  It has an oversize flared handle with a less tapered action than Butterfly flared handles (a bit closer to straight handles than most flared handles out there).








Edited by roundrobin - 10/14/2015 at 2:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 2:41am
I live in Japan, so if you'd like me to order one for you, let me know!

I'll have to ask how much it'll cost to mail it tho.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 3:02am
Here's another pic:




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 5:22am
Theres a member whos asking 110+paypal fees + shipping cost for tb alc.
Unfortunately I cant remember if its a st or fl. But its brand new.
Someone from the phollipines I think.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 10:19am
Got this today:

We can order the Zhang Jike ALC ST handle for you at the normal cost of $188.99 if you did not want a specific weight.

 It will take an estimated 2 to 4 weeks to receive at our US warehouse.

 The cost of the special ordered blade for the weight you requested will be $269.99  

 Also there is no lens or printing on the blade or handle for special ordered blades.

 It will take an estimated 8 to 12 weeks to receive at our US warehouse.

 Best regards,

Ken

I would have lost my bet.  He didn't try to up-sell me with the super-ZLC.  Only they jack up the price a lot as soon as you specify a weight.  They do not indicate something like "we will ask the factory to get you one close to your weight range but we can't guarantee it".

I find this to be appallingly bad customer service.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Zhaoyang Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 10:27am
Thank you Baal.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote in2spin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 10:57am
so, for 269, you can choose any config?  (i.e. tb alc, spirit, viscaria, michael maze etc.) - it just will not have a lens

:)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 11:25am
For that price I should just ask for a straight handle Viscaria.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 12:13pm
I stopped dealing with Butterfly NA for my main blades a long time ago for obvious reasons (they don't sell straight handles).
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 12:20pm
roundrobin,

What should we conclude from the fact that Waldner switched to ST and stuck with it?
Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 12:47pm
Strange that they go full nuclear with a custom order rather than allowing you to select the weight of an off the shelf blade. Maybe that's a limitation of ordering from their Japanese supplier though. Might not be their obstinacy.

Not stocking ST handles is the real facepalm here though. And that goes back some way.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndySmith Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 12:48pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

roundrobin,

What should we conclude from the fact that Waldner switched to ST and stuck with it?


That everyone makes mistakes? Even Waldner. #FlareForLifeYo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 12:54pm
Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

roundrobin,

What should we conclude from the fact that Waldner switched to ST and stuck with it?

That he found out he likes to block more instead of looping and spinning everything like ZJK?  Smile


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 12:57pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by the_theologian the_theologian wrote:

roundrobin,

What should we conclude from the fact that Waldner switched to ST and stuck with it?

That he found out he likes to block more instead of looping and spinning everything like ZJK?  Smile



what about Timo Boll using ST handle then?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 1:11pm
Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

what about Timo Boll using ST handle then?

Timo was/is the best counterer ever, so it made sense.  Same with Ovcharov.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote issb1655 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 2:18pm
Dear All,
On behalf of Butterfly NA

We apologize for the mistake. We missed that the request came from “Butterfly Special Order”.

Ken has taken replied to the customer above with information needed.

We will carry more ST blades in 2016, even though they may not make the 2016 catalog which is almost finished.

Best Regards,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/14/2015 at 5:59pm
Yes, I have posted all correspondence I have received from Butterfly already on this thread.  I certainly didn't receive anything since the last one I pasted above.

I am told Bty NA can get me a ZJK-ALC ST for the regular price but I have to accept whatever weight they decide to eventually ship me, they cannot even guarantee a range of weights, and they don't offer to convey my desires for a particular weight range to the factory in Japan (let's say 88-92g, I'm not that picky, just want a reasonable blade).  They also tell metn that is not acceptable I can have one specially made for $270 (or as they call it $269.99) and then I can get the exact weight I want.  Chances are for this blade, most of the ones they may have on the shelf in Japan are in my desired weight range, but how hard would it be to convey that message, and maybe even tell me whether or not there is one like that available?  One within a 4 gram range?  Maybe one or two emails?

So, no, I still don't think that is particularly customer-friendly.  I don't think it was always like this to deal with Butterfly.  It's like they don't want me to buy stuff from them.

It would be a good thing to stock at least a few ST blades in the popular series.  I probably shouldn't have to tell you that, and it has come up here many times in the past.

Am thinking it will soon be time to point out this feature of Bty NA on some of the other English language websites.
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