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Butterfly NA and ST blades |
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looneylooper
Member Joined: 04/30/2014 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 97 |
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@ baal japan (store) is still selling a zjk alc st for 190 equivalent to.usd. if u know someone from Japan or going there u can get it (hopefully).
Edited by looneylooper - 10/15/2015 at 12:04am |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I just found a barely used one from a member here. So end of this story for now.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Now that I have found a ZJK-ALC and will at some point be able to do a reasonable test of how I play with ST handle, we can switch over to that topic and away from Bty NA. (Thanks to the many people who offered to help me get one).
I know the topic has been done before, and it's largely a matter of taste, but I am curious to hear from people who have used both shapes and have found that they prefer one over the other (and why). I have used FL handles since I was about 12 years old. I have never questioned it. But now I am going to see what difference it might make in the way I play -- in a way that makes it as fair a test as I can. Not so easy when I have played with a Viscaria for many years!!! |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Roundrobin's analysis mostly held true for Mr. I kept sliding down my handle and with big hands, prioritized uniform feel. I wanted to develop my forehand and thought that flare blades could help. I used them for the second half of 2014. I did develop ny forehand but began to feel increasingly lost on ny backhand side. Hence I am setting myself straight again.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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beeray1
Premier Member Joined: 07/03/2008 Location: Iowa Status: Offline Points: 5169 |
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I'm using a ST handle for the first time, and have been loving it. Before when I would try another person's blade, the ST handles were so thin and it just wasn't pleasant. But with this 80's stiga blade, the handle is so beefy and i feel like I have so much stability. I don't like the beefy FL handles as much, I prefer the mid to thinner ones. But if I could find blades that have beefier ST handles like this i might never switch back to FL.
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Avallo
Super Member Joined: 02/12/2014 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 481 |
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@baal
actually i got same experience I love to use Tenergy 05 in 1,9mm but unfortunely there is only 2.1 in mine i have asked many times to the agent to make an order for thinner rubbers but they said... you can get it, only if you bought at least 1K sheet per year... because It's the minimum order...... I dunno which is the right one... it's Butterfly Policy or My dealer's economic reason (because most of the player in my country love to use max thickness TT__TT) but about the policy of selling areas... i think it's good... because every country have different tax policy... and that can ruin the business in there if someone from others countries (which has cheaper tax) insult in that country |
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Ray
Gold Member Joined: 02/28/2012 Location: Online Status: Offline Points: 1845 |
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@beeray1:
You should try Tibhar Stratus Powerwood ST. |
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Vlad0
Super Member Joined: 04/20/2014 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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The local distributor here told me once that no one measure the weights when they produce the blades and that's why he can not guarantee me the asking weight. And he never has what i want in stock. What a sweet job - to sell nothing ! I'm smart enough to not order like this, but my partner decided to take a risk and recently make an order for Joo Se Hyuk ( of course not available for such a famous blade ) and guess the weight when it come - 115 gr. Slapped the rubbers he use - with 1,2 LP on one side - 200 gr. Well ... it can be useful in the forest .... for cutting trees maybe. If we want to change something we could probably stop making orders like this.
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TB ALC 86gr + D09c/T05
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Avallo, I can see how the tax argument could apply in some places (for example, to my amazement I saw that Stiga items cost more at a store in Stockholm than they do in Houston). Still, if I want a Stiga, Donic, Joola, Nittaku etc. etc. I can buy if from many different places. I am not sure why only Bty operates this way. And then the question is, if Bty is going to operate that way, why do they limit items that a local dealer can sell based on bulk? Why force him to buy 1000 sheets? Like I said, it's like they don't want to sell that 1.9 mm Tenergy or certain ST blades (so why even make it then). |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Tried the straight ZJK-ALC today that I bought from a member here. The blade itself was a bit slower and felt hollow and light compared to my Viscarias and my other ZJK-ALC blades and it seemed to throw quite low. (Is that the blade or a fresh glue job?).
But the effect of using that handle was very interesting indeed. My wrist was suddenly liberated. I was ripping some backhands that I couldn't believe, my practice partner was just shaking his head. Also it felt great in short game and serving. It seems really easy to get really good control of the grip after serving and very fast transitions from FH to BH were so fluid.. I felt a bit lost at time on some forehands, not quite sure how to hold it, but I think that was as much the different feel of this particular blade as the handle. (It really felt odd for an ALC blade and that was definitely not the handle). I have to say, after 1 session, I liked it a lot. Time will tell. One thing that was interesting is that after 2 hours with the ST, I got my Viscaria out and was suddenly very conscious of this big lump in my palm that immediately made my distal forearm tense up. This experiment will definitely continue. |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14845 |
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Now I know why I can't stand the Viscaria.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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CraneStyle
Silver Member Joined: 08/06/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Well Baal, as your mantra goes "... you have to try it for yourself."
I've always felt that ST blades provide the world of freedom in my hand and I can't get along with FL handled at all... I think I've got about 5 different grips (including serves), with the freedom and comfort of ST handle... Welcome to the world of ST... |
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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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in2spin
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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I have always felt personally that ST's were more maneuverable
that, and for me it always felt like the FL made me "choke up" on the grip when I was young I shaved the flares off power drives handles :) |
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wturber
Premier Member Joined: 10/28/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3899 |
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I have never really noticed a difference. It always seems to be more a matter of the particular blade than the handle. I go back and forth with no problem and no conscious adjustment.
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Jay Turberville
www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
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onehander
Member Joined: 07/17/2015 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 71 |
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I played flared (and Jpen) for 31 years. I never thought of changing equipment for the longest time. Since I switched from Sriver to MX-P (with a positive experience) on my Jpen, I thought I might try a straight handle for shake hand. So last January I tried a straight handle and wished I had tried it a lot sooner. My grip changed, my hand was more relaxed, and my control was much improved.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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It took me about 15 min to get over this strange feeling that the blade was going to fly out of my hand. Once I did, everything opened up in interesting ways. I hope the blade itself (outside of the handle) feels better today, though. I am hoping it's strange feel yesterday was because I glued on rubber an hour before I played with it. Sadly, I don't think that's it. But today I will see.
I actually tried ST handle once before, about 5 or 6 years ago, and I was playing SP on my BH at that time (a phase I went through for a couple of years). At that time the ST handle (it was a TB-ALC) for some reason felt so strange that I gave up on it after about 15 minutes, and sold the blade the next day. The grip I used playing with SP on BH was actually quite a bit different because my BH needed a much more open blade angle. Now I use T05 on both sides, my grip and strokes are pretty orthodox and this time the ST handle is an entirely different experience. |
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speedy
Gold Member Joined: 01/21/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1802 |
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Baal,
Welcome to the ST handle experience. I have been using ST handle for most of my life. Once in awhile, I tried Viscaria FL or Clipper CR FL. They are not bad, but I can play backhand way much better with ST. Give it time my friend, give it time... Good luck, |
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SPEEDY
Viscaria Super ALC ST JOOLA Rhyzen CMD(FH) Nittaku Moristo SP (BH) |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I am actually enjoying it more now that the blade I have is a little more familiar. Of this continues I may have to have a giant clearance sale on very good Viscaria blades (and have a couple of ST Viscarias custom made). This particular ZJK-ALC I got is not one of the best of its breed I have to say, but it is certainly good enough for me to see the potential of ST.
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speedy
Gold Member Joined: 01/21/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1802 |
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Ball,
Whenever you place an order for ST Viscarias, let me know. I might want a few (I am 100% cured from EJ) |
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SPEEDY
Viscaria Super ALC ST JOOLA Rhyzen CMD(FH) Nittaku Moristo SP (BH) |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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As soon as they get back to me with the price, I will PM you.
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Abit off topic but... So far I've played with: 2 ST (Korbel, SSCB) 3 FL (Primorac, TB ALC, YEO) FL did help me keep my wrist relaxed on FH shots but BH always felt unnatural due to my large hands. My solution was this: I know some of you dislike the idea of grip tape for blade feeling and stuff but for me its the best of both worlds. I can maintain a loose grip for forehand shots and at the same time have the BH I always needed. Still wish they would bring back Korbel ST version. That blade was my favorite ST handle 5ply wood. Edited by DreiZ - 10/19/2015 at 10:21pm |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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I believe it is still made, no? Edited by the_theologian - 10/19/2015 at 10:41pm |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Only the European version which I read is crap. JTTA is no longer made, and the ones that are sold here on forums are severely overpriced.
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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Hmm, I'm a bit on the fence whether to keep mine. |
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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in2spin
Silver Member Joined: 12/09/2008 Status: Offline Points: 988 |
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:)
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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tonky777
Beginner Joined: 02/09/2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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Are you sure about this? They still sell the Japanese ones in Korea (I'm not saying that makes it more accessible for us but at least the supply isn't running short anytime soon). Got a nice 89g ST myself from Korea about an year ago.
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Viscaria
SpinArt/Tenergy 05 Let's just enjoy the good things we get/have access to... |
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the_theologian
Premier Member Joined: 01/11/2009 Location: U.S. Status: Offline Points: 3895 |
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tonky777,
What website is that?
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Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max
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tonky777
Beginner Joined: 02/09/2015 Location: New York Status: Offline Points: 16 |
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That screenshot is of http://www.butterfly-korea.co.kr/
Other tt equipment dealers in Korea also have the Korbel ST available so I don't think Butterfly Japan has stopped producing STs completely (Unless they stocked up for years in anticipation of course). |
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Viscaria
SpinArt/Tenergy 05 Let's just enjoy the good things we get/have access to... |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2576 |
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Last time I spoke to a Korean club owner who is also a butterfly dealer he said he couldn't get it anymore. I'm sure shops in Korea still have it but to pay the shipping plus all the fees would be too much for the blade. Soon enough the stock will run out since I don't see it on the Japanese website. And the custom "korbel" that many Korean pros use is just too much for what it's worth.
Tonky, did you order from Korea or bought it while visiting Korea? Also how much in USD did you pay for it? Edited by DreiZ - 10/21/2015 at 8:26am |
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Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
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