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Umpire Yellow & red Card together

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    Posted: 10/18/2016 at 12:00am
Ding Ning -2012 Gold match incidence, conflict with International Umpire Bongelli.
Case re-examined!!


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Baal View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2016 at 5:44am
I don't like to relitigate things but that umpire made herself the center of attention in an Olympic final. I think it was a case study in what not to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ameetnsharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2016 at 6:48am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't like to relitigate things but that umpire made herself the center of attention in an Olympic final. I think it was a case study in what not to do.


Hmmm... I disagree. From what I saw in the video, the umpire made the right call. Ding Ning's service was illegal, plus she was really pushing it with the towel breaks.

The umpire has to maintain control.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2016 at 6:58am
I really think the umpire could choose another path. 
As far as I can see that serve was not that short as she was saying. You can see that on replay.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ameetnsharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2016 at 7:17am
Ok, watching the rest of the match, I also have questions about the umpire's calls:

Why the call at 8:10? Was it because the toss wasn't straight up or not high enough?

And why at 17:20?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assam Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2016 at 7:46am
I guess the umpire wanted to be the star of the game
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/18/2016 at 8:52pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't like to relitigate things but that umpire made herself the center of attention in an Olympic final. I think it was a case study in what not to do.

Didn't Ding Ning receive warning and/or faults from other umpires in previous matches for the same thing?  If so, then this seems more like a case study of what players should not do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tt-panopticum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 11:49am


This one, with original comentary, IMO gives a much better impression of the situation.

All the "educational" rosecitytt bubbles I've seen seem to be made  for the "nightmare" sort of umpires Confused - just my personal opinion of course.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 1:41pm
Originally posted by tt-panopticum tt-panopticum wrote:



This one, with original commentary, IMO gives a much better impression of the situation.

Yes.  A better impression, including the confusion over what was actually being called.  The announcer seems to think she was faulted for "not vertical."  I think the fault was for not tossing from a stationary hand.  He also thought she hot a red/yellow card for asking about the serve.  I think otherwise.  I think it was for delaying play - something she had been previously warned about.

This is an example of what happens when the de facto tradition of not calling certain faults runs into a situation where an umpire decides to enforce the de jure (actual) rules.  What was her motivation for actually enforcing the rules when that is not the standard?  I have no idea.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 1:48pm
Originally posted by tt-panopticum tt-panopticum wrote:


All the "educational" rosecitytt bubbles I've seen seem to be made  for the "nightmare" sort of umpires Confused - just my personal opinion of course.


Kind of my impression also, to be honest.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ameetnsharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 2:06pm
Originally posted by wturber wturber wrote:


Yes.  A better impression, including the confusion over what was actually being called.  The announcer seems to think she was faulted for "not vertical."  I think the fault was for not tossing from a stationary hand. 



The umpire should clarify this type of thing.

Or we need much more sophisticated hand gestures from umpires to clarify exactly what rule is being enforced.


Edited by ameetnsharma - 10/19/2016 at 2:10pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOOPMEISTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 2:20pm
Also, as I remember, this was around the time when the refs were making attempts to crack down on illegal stuff, and many players were being called on serves throughout the world tour, etc.

Ironically, in the last few years serves have become even more illegal. LOL


Edited by LOOPMEISTER - 10/19/2016 at 2:24pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ameetnsharma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 2:25pm
Originally posted by LOOPMEISTER LOOPMEISTER wrote:

Also, as I remember, this was around the time when the refs were making attempts to crack down on illegal stuff, and many players were being called on serves throughout the world tour, etc.

Ironically, in the last few years serves have become even more illegal. LOL


Problem is lack of consistency, and lack of clarity on what they're being called on for exactly.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 3:37pm
Note that Ding Ning had been issued a yellow card before the yellow/red combo when she took too long (about 2 seconds more than Li X) to return to the table at the start of one of the games. Also note that most announcers were not on site and were using a video feed from London. What made it confusing for the announcers and viewers was that the video feed did not show the first yellow so the yellow/red seemed to be the first instance of any card shown by the umpire but was, in fact, the second time the umpire showed Ding Ning a card.

Edited by heavyspin - 10/19/2016 at 3:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote berndt_mann Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/19/2016 at 5:56pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

I don't like to relitigate things but that umpire made herself the center of attention in an Olympic final. I think it was a case study in what not to do.

It's probably too late to relitigate things; I suspect that the statute of limitations for umpire malfeasance has long since run out. 

It might not be a bad idea, however, for players such as Ding to have a lawyer who specializes in table tennis law present at every match, most particularly at an Olympic final.

Then, should she get double carded again, she could plead her case with the help of counsel to her peers (Liu Xiaoxia, Zhang Yining, Deng Yaping).

An Olympic final is far too important a match not to have a lawyer present should some arrogant umpire card you for doing what you are not supposed to do.


Edited by berndt_mann - 10/20/2016 at 1:23am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kuifje Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/20/2016 at 7:39am
For what it's worth: the main commentator in the video is Matthew Syed, a former England player who had a world ranking of about 25 or so in the late 90s.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote asifgunz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/05/2016 at 8:25am
She turnt up on ding ding.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosecitytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 6:01pm
But if Umpire Paola is controversial, why she re-appeared in this (2016) gold match after 4 years....
 (is it intentional by ITTF when they see DingNing?)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66ffqaGn788



Edited by rosecitytt - 11/30/2016 at 6:02pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 10:02pm
Well there is no doubt she is controversial, people still argue about whether she was appropriate.  As in this thread, for example, where there is not an unanimous opinion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote penholderxxx Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/30/2016 at 10:36pm
Am I drunk or what ?
Are you sure that is ms beautiful Paola in the picture ?
 And I think she did not umpire the women single final match.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rosecitytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2016 at 7:24am
Might want to check what you were drinking. Yeah,ur not drunk. Umpire Paola is gone, this is Umpire Isabelle for Women gold.



Edited by rosecitytt - 12/01/2016 at 7:31am
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