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Trouble with setup |
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coffeeholic
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2016 Location: california Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Posted: 12/07/2016 at 3:29pm |
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I'm having difficulty playing with the Rakza7. I am mostly close to the table when I play, and a lot of my loops just end up flying over the table. I can keep it on the table if I compact my stroke, but that comes at a big loss to spin and speed. I am not sure if Rakza7 should even be played closer to the table, but I switched over to my BH rubber, Omega 4 Euro as my FH, and I've found it easier to loop and play close to mid distance than the R7. But that leaves me with the R7 on my BH, and I can no longer loop off my BH anymore. Now it's mostly push/block/smash.
I'm wondering if I should get a slower rubber to replace the R7, or if I should keep practice on the R7 so I can play with it on my FH. I like to play loop game, but a lot of my opponents don't hit fast/hard enough to stay mid distance from the table. I always end up moving up closer to the table to flick a short loop or block a drive. This is where the R7 gives me mixed results. Blocking is great, but flick or looping right behind the table just makes the ball fly too far. I adjust by shortening my stroke, and the ball isn't very spinny or fast, and gives the opponent chance to counter attack. If I should replace it, what should I replace with? Or if I should keep the R7, what can I do to make it work for me? Thanks
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Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
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mts388
Platinum Member Joined: 03/21/2014 Location: Sonora CA Status: Offline Points: 2382 |
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The first step to becoming an EJ is blaming the equipment when you miss shots. Many play well with your setup so you can too.
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coffeeholic
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2016 Location: california Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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I am not blaming the setup. I'm saying I don't have enough skill to control it. Advice needed, or suggestions for an alternative that better suits my lower skill level
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Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1306 |
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What is your skill level?
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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
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zeio
Premier Member Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 10833 |
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Just get another Omega IV Euro.
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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coffeeholic
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2016 Location: california Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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beginner? I can compete against players rated 800~1200 USATT at the club. I'm assuming anywhere near 1K is beginner territory
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Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
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100niTenis
Platinum Member Joined: 02/13/2014 Location: Online Status: Offline Points: 2093 |
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I am guessing same, around 1200 rated is good beginner. Hitting 1500 territory is solid beginner and in territory of intermediate knowledge !
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ThePongProfessor
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/17/2014 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1528 |
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It sounds like you play with a lot of physical effort (big swings). Have you considered a harder FH rubber, perhaps even a Chinese rubber like H3? It is an inexpensive experiment.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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If you want good feedback, you need to post video. The details of your problem are best analyzed by people who can actually see what you are doing, not random good players who you have never met before.
On general principles, an 800 player needs a coach of some sort to guide him through everything. I generally would not recommend that someone use Rakza 7 as their first rubber but it is not as important as being taught how to hit the ball properly. Edited by NextLevel - 12/07/2016 at 4:51pm |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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coffeeholic
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2016 Location: california Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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I can certainly give that a try. A friend has a sheet of Big Dipper he's not using. Can this work too?
you're totally right. but i'm also not very comfortable with sharing video at the moment. i know this is trivial to a lot of other people, but for some reason, it matters to me. terribly sorry in the grander scheme though, would you say that a beginner like myself should and can play well with the rakza 7, or would it be better for my development (no coaching) to simply downgrade to a slower rubber?
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Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Offline Points: 4949 |
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At your level, coaching is key or you'll develop bad habits.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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hammondpro
Member Joined: 11/29/2016 Location: birchington Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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Give dhs skyline neo 2 a go good Chinese fh rubber. Hard rubber to start with but loosens up after weeks use. Good attacking rubber with loads of spin and great control. Plus cheap and long lasting.
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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I wouldn't give a beginner rakza7 for cost reasons, and there is a decent argument to be made that you should down grade to a slow blade and rubber. But if you are no getting coached, it hardly matters, as there are good and bad habits to be formed with all kinds of equipment. Nothing wrong with not wanting to share video, but I like to stress to people that this sport is complicated enough to make good advice very specific to the particular situation it addresses.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Johnny.d.p
Super Member Joined: 09/22/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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This may sound condescending but do you know how to brush? I'm not talking about just getting spin but getting an almost no speed pure spin return. Can you place a low loop that's topspin loaded to the point that touching it throws it right up in the air?
I think learning how to brush really heavy is a key skill needed to control fast rubbers. Once you know how to brush, you can do speed/spin mixed shots depending on situation as the effectively brushed loop will be able to keep the ball low and arc down. Personally, I learnt how to brush with unboosted Srivers. If I can do it with Srivers, then you can do it with almost anything. Even after you learn how to brush and once you've consolidated your gameplay, you'll find that some rubbers might be too fast for your playstyle. For example, I for one can't control Tenergy in a fast pace spinny game since I don't have satisfactory skill to control it. |
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BTY Viscaria FL 88g | DHS H3 BS 2.1 41 x DianChi | BTY Tenergy 64
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DarkerMyLove
Super Member Joined: 08/23/2016 Location: taiwan Status: Offline Points: 167 |
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Obviously as nxtlvl mentioned without a video or more details everyone is shooting in the dark. You should be asking others in the club what they think (since they can actually see you play) and also recording yourself play. Not to post here but just to see what you are doing wrong. You may think you know your flaws but until you watch yourself play multiple games you probably won't know.
You should not be having any issues with R7 even if you do a loop drive and not a "brush" loop. Most likely the issue is your technique. My guess is that you are not going low to high enough and/or your blade angle is just too open (or inconsistent between different shots). As you swing harder you can close the face of the blade more--- even if you do a loop drive as opposed to a brush loop. As someone has mentioned earlier if budget is not an issue just use Omega IV Euro on both sides or use the rubber you had previously. But if you have the time and patience to take a look at your technique or with a coach then R7 should not be a problem.
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coffeeholic
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2016 Location: california Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Sounds kinda hopeless at this point if that's the case. :( Perhaps I will downgrade anyways and hope that the feedback from a slower rubber will help me progress moreso than a faster rubber that I cannot control anyways.
I can buy another sheet of O4E (preferably something slower though, and anything < $50 is fine). But proper coaching will cost me $40~50 per half hour in most places. I don't know how many lessons I will need to learn proper footwork and strokes, but I'm assuming it's not going to be a 2 or 3 lesson thing. I'd like to be able to go in 1~2x a week for several months, but I've nowhere near the budget for something like that. As far as asking club members go, most don't give me the type of advice a coach would. They'll give me advice like when I block their spinny loops, push down, or when I receive backspin serve, use my body movement and don't rely so much on my arm movement only. None of them really give me the details of stroke mechanics. Most are just there to enjoy match play and go home. |
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Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
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Johnny.d.p
Super Member Joined: 09/22/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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I haven't ever had professional one-on-one coaching while I took the sport on a bit more competitively. I used to get coached when I was rather young but I didn't take it very seriously. I stopped training with the coach after a few sessions and basically learnt in my garage and by watching others and getting pointers from more experienced players.
I learnt how to brush in my garage. If you can find anyone who has the patience to help you learn, you just need them to feed you backspin balls. Be patient and wait for the ball to come and brush almost only upwards. Learn to use your arm for spin and body rotation for speed. Once you develop the brush and understand the dynamic of applying spin, combine it with loop drives for fast spinny loops. Learn how to brush on both backhand and forehand. Edited by Johnny.d.p - 12/07/2016 at 11:34pm |
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BTY Viscaria FL 88g | DHS H3 BS 2.1 41 x DianChi | BTY Tenergy 64
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*_strataras_*
Gold Member Joined: 04/19/2010 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1156 |
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If you are experienced player, you know if the setup is not suitable for you, so you can blame it. For example, I used to play for 12 years, and then I had a big accident. When I returned to tables, I could only play close to the table, so I had to find something that suits me perfectly! So I blamed a lot of blades and rubbers till I found the right equipment to play with.
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*_strataras_*
Gold Member Joined: 04/19/2010 Location: Greece Status: Offline Points: 1156 |
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coffeeholic my friend, the blade you are using is currently for close to the table, but have u make the question to yourself if you should change to an all+ blade? Try a Gionis all+ carbon, try a Gurbba carbon, try an OSP expert, try a stiga allround evolution...And then make one more change...go to 1,9mm in your rubbers, or even better 1,7mm. I started playing with tenergy 1,7mm and they suit me perfectly!
P.S. If you are player who plays close to the table you should have blade and rubbers which make high arc IF your game is looping and spin oriented. But if you play close to the table and your game is straight with punches, flat hits and blocks, then you should go for a blade and rubbers with low arc. And as I read from your first post, u loop and generate spin, so u must keep a high arced blade with high arced rubbers, but you sould go to lower speed both in rubbers and blade. (all+ blade and 1,9 or 1,7mm sponge thickness)
Edited by *_strataras_* - 12/08/2016 at 2:18am |
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coffeeholic
Super Member Joined: 03/08/2016 Location: california Status: Offline Points: 107 |
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Thanks for the words of encouragement. I picked up table tennis for the first time this spring and I'm loving it. I can finally compete with people who grew up playing casually. Maybe next year I can start to take some games away from them!
I'm not looking for a new blade. Just trying to figure out if I should downgrade to a slower rubber or just try to make it work with the fast one. The rubber is still in pretty good condition, so I felt kinda guilty about shelving it and possibly not use it... forever
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Tibhar Samsonov Alpha | Yasaka Rakza 7 | Xiom OmegaIV Euro
Rubbers don't offer control. YOU are the control! |
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Johnny.d.p
Super Member Joined: 09/22/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 132 |
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I have the firm belief that something can be learnt from absolutely anyone, regardless of skill level. Everyone has something new to offer and put on the table. Several different players actually critiqued my game differently. I had one player actually encourage me to learn how to loop drive instead of brush looping which is handy to add to the arsenal too. There isn't just one way to do things. Just stay patient and eager for growth and expand in all aspects.
Warm up with forehand to forehand and backhand to backhand drives with a set rhythm and placement for consistency and the idea of the loop drive as I learnt it was to do the same thing as your drive but faster. Of course you will need to incorporate a bit more rotation but the fundamental movement is supposedly supposed to say the same. I'm not saying this is the perfect way to do it and someone could correct me but it's a start. As for brush loops, I've always seen my technique as more Chinese than European if I'm correct in assuming that European movements are more compact and stiff in the arm and more reliant on the body drive and rotation. I'm curious to know what's the true definitive division between the two techniques. Same thing as drive loop exercise but focus on skimming the ball and keeping the pace nice and controlled. Try to ensure every ball goes to your partner with at least some topspin in a consistent position that is returnable and you know you can replicate over and over again. Once comfortable, brush more to achieve more topspin and work up. Overall, I think the key to good shots are a combination of arm angling, pivoting, footwork and rotation but it is hard to say what you can do without knowing where to work from. Hopefully these generic tips help at least a little bit. |
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BTY Viscaria FL 88g | DHS H3 BS 2.1 41 x DianChi | BTY Tenergy 64
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