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Request: translation of this video

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    Posted: 02/25/2017 at 1:25am
Could someone translate this video (it is long, but I'd be grateful even for a part translation):

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+1
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mickd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2017 at 2:46pm
Great video. Thanks for sharing. Looks like he also has one on the forehand counterhit.

+1 on the translation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote coffeeholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2017 at 4:30pm
Finally finished it. Let me know if there are any questions or ambiguities. :)

Instructor starts with asking player to do a forehand drive. After some strokes, instructor says he's seen enough and starts his commentary.

'He is standing too much and there is no rhythm in his stroke. He also does not use his wrist'

He then proceeds to place the player in the proper starting position for forehand drive. Midway through, he turns the players hips and comments 'this is the drive', indicating hip rotation is what powers the drive.

Once the stance is set, he says 'this is a hard stance to maintain. this is why a lot of pros do squats as part of their exercise. if you cannot maintain this position, you will end up reverting back to arm-only strokes when playing'

At 3:24, he notes elbow should not be fully extended.
At 3:40, he suggests to lower wrist in relaxed fashion so the paddle point downwards

Next, he talks about where to hit the ball. Novices tend to hit the ball at net height, but this is not correct. Ball should be hit at table height. He has the player take practice strokes and makes the following notes:

1. Around the point of impact, he says the wrist should be rotated outwards
2. Follow through should not end near the head. You want to create a triangle between paddle, head and elbow. Don't make the triangle too tight. Don't finish near the head.
3. After follow through, reset by lowering your arm inwards. (sort of like pulling your elbow). If you reset outwards, you will be at risk if the ball is returned to your backhand. You won't be able to reach it.
4. upon reset, when setting up for the next drive, start to lower your wrist as you lower your arm and get into position

Around 6:30, after some practice strokes, coach comments that his form has changed drastically. It's 80% close to pro form. He then proposes what's the other 20% difference? "it's the use of the lower body"

"Amateurs tend to end up relying on arm only. But pros get power from lower body. Amateurs, because they use arm only, the overswing and lower body play falls apart."

Coach proceeds to show the two styles, using arm vs lower body...

While showing arm only strokes, coach comments "arm only feels less natural, and because swing is too large, it's harder to prepare for the next ball. your body is out of balance"

Before he demonstrates strokes using lower body, he mentions 'using lower body will allow smaller strokes, more opportunity to set up for the next ball.' As he demonstrates the 'pro' strokes, he repeats the same things, and also says 'by using your legs, see how easier it is to follow/receive the next ball'

Next, he comments that amateurs tend to forget form when the ball comes in fast. Since table tennis is played at a fast pace, there's no time to think about how to apply your stroke. So what can you do? 

'one must create good habits.'

To form good habit, he provides some practice instructions.

1. Do not hit the ball high. Hit later/lower.
2. To do this, don't stay too close to the table. Take a step away from the table, and allow yourself to hit when the ball is lower.
3. Try not to use too much arm and overswing. Wait for the ball to drop, use your body as well as your wrist.

He adds 'do not rely only on wrist. the whole arm is at play, including the elbow. The stroke should have a rhythm'

From 10~20 minute mark it's a lot of player practice, and coach stops on occasions to comment on the following:

- Footwork. Coach says he needs to move his feet. Amatuers tend to move their feet after the swing, but pros move their legs first to track the ball, and then support the stroke. He tells his student to move his feet to support the stroke as the ball location changes

- In the same vein, the ball does not always end up in the same height. When it comes lower, bend lower.

- Coach starts to hold student's hip and rotate it so the student can feel what the KNEES need to do to support continuous stroke. He suggests to the student to not stand up after a stroke, but knees are kept bent, and there should be a rhythmic movement from left to right. 

- Coach comes back to footwork (~16:00). He notices the player falling out of rhythm because he is not moving his legs to track the ball.  The legs must support the stroke. If the ball were always coming back in the same spot, it would be easy. However, it doesn't, so if you use only your arm for your stroke, your footwork will suffer, and you will not recover. You must move around and use your legs to position yourself and then power your stroke. He shows an example to practice footwork (by moving with legs and no arms).

- around 18:30, he comments his student's form is much better and can see a rhythm going now. 

- around 19:00, coach comments student is hitting the ball to high. Hitting at that height 'is not a drive'. a drive is much lower, where you can use your legs and lower body for power. When hitting higher, one must be standing. You cannot provide power in this position. Hitting higher is a 'stroke.' (note: I know in english, a stroke has a different meaning. In korean, it seems 'stroke' refers to a standard forehand topspin stroke.) He demonstrates 2 different timings. One is when the ball is high, which he calls a stroke. At table height, he signifies it is good for drive.

Around the 20 minute mark, after commenting on high/low balls, he talks about the critical part of the stroke. He focuses on the moment of impact, and explains 2 variations of the stroke. One is a long follow through, and the other is a more compact and vertical short stroke. When do you do one or the other?

"short, vertical stroke is for low bouncing backspin balls." he asks training partner to provide a low backspin ball (he calls it a 'cut' ball). coach then strokes 'long' on a low backspin ball (and doesn't land on the table). he says it will always miss. so you must do a short stroke. he follows up with a high backspin ball, and explains that for high balls, you can take the long stroke.

as he continues to explain, he revisits the wrist movement during the stroke. the wrist flicks around moment of impact (table height). he then shows how the wrist should move. a lot of amateurs rotate their wrist the wrong way (where rotation is more north/south). he shows the correct rotation where the rotation is more horizontal. he comments that the rotation of the wrist should not show a lot of paddle. it should show less face of the paddle. it was more common to see the north/south rotation several decades ago, but no longer now.

In conclusion, he wraps up with more on using your lower body as the foundation of your stroke. If you use your legs and hip, the follow through on the arm is natural and will come very easy. And to tie in with wrist rotation, the wrist should have the paddle point slightly outwards and not directly pointed to the ground. Together with leg/hip rotation, follow through with stroke and wrist rotation and it will all work.

the end! yay! :)


Edited by coffeeholic - 02/25/2017 at 7:41pm
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Originally posted by coffeeholic coffeeholic wrote:

There's a lot of material to cover for direct translation, but I will try to cover it in steps. Here are notes from the first 10 minutes:

Instructor starts with asking player to do a forehand drive. After some strokes, instructor says he's seen enough and starts his commentary.

'He is standing too much and there is no rhythm in his stroke. He also does not use his wrist'

He then proceeds to place the player in the proper starting position for forehand drive. Midway through, he turns the players hips and comments 'this is the drive', indicating hip rotation is what powers the drive.

Once the stance is set, he says 'this is a hard stance to maintain. this is why a lot of pros do squats as part of their exercise. if you cannot maintain this position, you will end up reverting back to arm-only strokes when playing'

At 3:24, he notes elbow should not be fully extended.
At 3:40, he suggests to lower wrist in relaxed fashion so the paddle point downwards

Next, he talks about where to hit the ball. Novices tend to hit the ball at net height, but this is not correct. Ball should be hit at table height. He has the player take practice strokes and makes the following notes:

1. Around the point of impact, he says the wrist should be rotated outwards
2. Follow through should not end near the head. You want to create a triangle between paddle, head and elbow. Don't make the triangle too tight. Don't finish near the head.
3. After follow through, reset by lowering your arm inwards. (sort of like pulling your elbow). If you reset outwards, you will be at risk if the ball is returned to your backhand. You won't be able to reach it.
4. upon reset, when setting up for the next drive, start to lower your wrist as you lower your arm and get into position

Around 6:30, after some practice strokes, coach comments that his form has changed drastically. It's 80% close to pro form. He then proposes what's the other 20% difference? "it's the use of the lower body"

"Amateurs tend to end up relying on arm only. But pros get power from lower body. Amateurs, because they use arm only, the overswing and lower body play falls apart."

Coach proceeds to show the two styles, using arm vs lower body...

While showing arm only strokes, coach comments "arm only feels less natural, and because swing is too large, it's harder to prepare for the next ball. your body is out of balance"

Before he demonstrates strokes using lower body, he mentions 'using lower body will allow smaller strokes, more opportunity to set up for the next ball.' As he demonstrates the 'pro' strokes, he repeats the same things, and also says 'by using your legs, see how easier it is to follow/receive the next ball'

Next, he comments that amateurs tend to forget form when the ball comes in fast. Since table tennis is played at a fast pace, there's no time to think about how to apply your stroke. So what can you do? 

'one must create good habits.'

To form good habit, he provides some practice instructions.

1. Do not hit the ball high. Hit later/lower.
2. To do this, don't stay too close to the table. Take a step away from the table, and allow yourself to hit when the ball is lower.
3. Try not to use too much arm and overswing. Wait for the ball to drop, use your body as well as your wrist.

He adds 'do not rely only on wrist. the whole arm is at play, including the elbow. The stroke should have a rhythm'


-- this concludes up to the 10 minute mark. to be continued... i will likely edit this post and see if i can fit the whole thing. :)



thanks, but hitting the ball at table height? That way you lose some power don't you?
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Thanks coffeeholic!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coffeeholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2017 at 7:42pm
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

 thanks, but hitting the ball at table height? That way you lose some power don't you?

Since the stroke is powered by the lower body, the ball is hit lower. When it is higher, you are closer to standing height, and you cannot achieve the same amount of power as when lower. That was his reasoning later into the lesson (I did not reach that part when you replied) :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2017 at 8:55pm
Originally posted by coffeeholic coffeeholic wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

 thanks, but hitting the ball at table height? That way you lose some power don't you?


Since the stroke is powered by the lower body, the ball is hit lower. When it is higher, you are closer to standing height, and you cannot achieve the same amount of power as when lower. That was his reasoning later into the lesson (I did not reach that part when you replied) :)
but still, when the ball is at table height you can't play forward into the ball, as the only way for it to land is with a good arc.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Kolev Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2017 at 11:44pm
Coffeeholic, thanks for your time and efforts
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coffeeholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2017 at 1:52am
Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

Originally posted by coffeeholic coffeeholic wrote:

Originally posted by Tt Gold Tt Gold wrote:

 thanks, but hitting the ball at table height? That way you lose some power don't you?


Since the stroke is powered by the lower body, the ball is hit lower. When it is higher, you are closer to standing height, and you cannot achieve the same amount of power as when lower. That was his reasoning later into the lesson (I did not reach that part when you replied) :)
but still, when the ball is at table height you can't play forward into the ball, as the only way for it to land is with a good arc.


I think it comes down to how you define power. Is power the amount of energy you can generate to create spin/speed, or is power simply the resulting speed of the ball? I think the acceleration of the paddle is optimized by hitting the ball lower, but it doesn't mean the ball will travel faster than a smash.
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Thanks a lot, coffeeholic. That was really useful!
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수고가 많으셨습니다. Good Work.
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Originally posted by coffeeholic coffeeholic wrote:

 

Once the stance is set, he says 'this is a hard stance to maintain. this is why a lot of pros do squats as part of their exercise. if you cannot maintain this position, you will end up reverting back to arm-only strokes when playing'

 

When I say this, people tell me I am being silly.  At least, I can quote an Olympic Champion now.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2017 at 4:14pm
The explanation was so good that I don't need to watch the video Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coffeeholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2017 at 4:57pm
Originally posted by Tinykin Tinykin wrote:

The explanation was so good that I don't need to watch the video Smile

I don't know... at some point in the video, I think I could've said coach was teaching student how to cha cha and people might have believed me LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hidasjoki Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2017 at 5:48pm
WOW, thanks for taking the time to translate. Very informativeBeer
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Coffeholic we all owe you a coffee each for translating this wisdom, I wonder if YouTube let's you use external srt files while playing the video, so you could transcribe once. Thanks again!
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If CH can visit Bay Area in CA, USA, then I can give him sum good cappuccino...




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I like the cappuccino machine in the background :)

and the granite countertop Big smile

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amazing work coffeeholic; I owe you one.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote coffeeholic Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/04/2017 at 2:17pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

If CH can visit Bay Area in CA, USA, then I can give him sum good cappuccino...







Grinder looks like a mazzer. Is that a giotto machine? Looks pretty high end setup :) I will take you up on the offer if I ever trek up to the bay area!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alphapong Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/04/2017 at 5:45pm
Nice video. Yoo Nam Kyu was a great player.

Coffeeholic thanks for the translation work!

Regarding letting the ball drop to table height, you should consider the that Yoo Nam Kyu is from the era of 38mm ball and speed glue. 

With 40mm plastic ball and no speed glue the game is played closer to the table. I think most modern coaches currently teach to play the ball at or before the peak of the bounce.  


Edited by alphapong - 03/04/2017 at 5:46pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/05/2017 at 1:41am
The setup in the pic was from my townhouse in Northern Virginia, I moved to Sacramento, rent a room in someone's house until my contract is finished in VA. I brought the gear with me, so the offer stands, heck, I could bring it with me down to LA next time I go there. Ur eyes are good, a Mazzer Mini and the single unit a stainless steel Expobar. Not the highest of high end, but square in prosumer zone.

My nickname is LA용팔이, so maybe I see you down there sometime Coffeeholic.

Heck, with a screen name like Coffeeholic such a hijack was inevitable. I gist a lot of Kim Jung Hoon vids.

Quote Since the stroke is powered by the lower body, the ball is hit lower. When it is higher, you are closer to standing height, and you cannot achieve the same amount of power as when lower. That was his reasoning later into the lesson (I did not reach that part when you replied) :)

I agree with this line of thinking. Low body power is absolute. Exploding from a crouch is a marvelous thing.

Another way I look at it is position. If one is not close enough to the ball in position, one needs to wait for the ball to enter the optimal strike zone to transfer power. If one hits too far in front of zone, there is inefficient power transfer and increased chance for error.


Edited by BH-Man - 03/05/2017 at 1:42am
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