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Stiga Genesis M and Mantra M review. |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Posted: 11/23/2017 at 1:46pm |
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This is a good ad for Genesis. :-)
Does it look like the rubber is boosted? Players complain that Genesis is much weaker from mid-distance but it doesn't seem so in this video. |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Nice review of Mantra M and H by Paddle Palace Matt Hetherington. He is using a Donic JO Senso V1 blade.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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My guess is that whenever they try out these new formulations, stuff starts happening and QC becomes an issue. Genesis is made in China and QC is always an issue with Chinese goods (one of the reasons I was concerned about Genesis). Mantra is Japanese which normally has n more durability, but this is an entirely new rubber they are experimenting with. I suspect Karis may have better durability characteristics. For obvious reasons, durability is not a big priority for rubber manufacturers. I'm still waiting to see if I can find someone in the club using either of these or Rozena (which is supposed to be quite durable), so still playing with a Calibra LT which I find to be highly durable, but really tough to spin. Thanks for the info! Edited by richrf - 10/27/2017 at 8:17am |
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JKC
Gold Member Joined: 11/12/2006 Location: England Status: Offline Points: 1625 |
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Heard rumours that Mantra doesn't last well.
I can say for certain that 2mm Genesis lasts for ages although the max didn't last anywhere near as well. No idea why. |
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Very interesting. Thanks for the information. Very helpful. Edited by richrf - 10/24/2017 at 11:43am |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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richrf, I meant M is 12% bouncier than G
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Vlad0
Super Member Joined: 04/20/2014 Location: Bulgaria Status: Offline Points: 159 |
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I bought Genesis M black max finally. Last night i tried it on Viscaria. The topsheet is shiny and not tacky at all, even pressing the ball. The sponge is definitely red and not orange (more red than that will be purple) and i would say it's hard - harder than T05, reminds me of MXS when my partner used it. The arc is low and not high as some say and long - again MXS ??? BH - too long but it's about technique for sure, FH - perfect. In matchplay i found that every mistake is on the BH side, but maybe because H3 went there and none on the FH side. Amazing. Just like in the clip of TTD. You can open EVERY ball easy with slow spiny loop landing behind the net and ready for the winner. You can control the speed of the ball easy (hello blockers ). As it is said - between euro and Chinese rubber - perfect for me. No more dead Chinese rubber on the FH .
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TB ALC 86gr + D09c/T05
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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That's perfect Tom. Thanks much! |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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richrf, mounted a Genesis M max and a Mantra M 1.9 on a 7 ply wood Andro Wanokwani Ren Off (I think a off- to off blade). What I can tell you so far the Mantra is about 10% faster (and would be enough for most players). Loop against topspin M is faster and has more bite on the ball. Topspin off heavy downspin, G is just slightly easier and the difference in spin is minimal. neither have any difficulties but neither creates the same level of spin as MXP. G is about 12% bouncier (than M) but I would say is not overly so. If you want any other characteristics I could try to find out Wed.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks Tom. That's will be great! |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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richrf,found out the Genesis M is not mounted and did not have enough time to fix it up before my practice tonight . if nobody else gives you a comparison between the two by my next practice (Monday) i will mount it on a AVX BT777 with a Mantra M on the other side to make a direct comparison.
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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You are right regarding the Mantra / ESN (I forgot). I still stand by it's durability as a sheet of the H lost its sheen (see my previous posts on this thread) rather quickly. Will get back to you on the Genesis.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Thanks Tom.
As far as I understand, Mantra M is a tension Japanese rubber, and not ESN, and may even be coming out of the same factory that makes the Calibra. I generally prefer Japanese tension to ESN because I feel more control and they seem to be lighter. Genesis I believe it's manufactured in China with a more of a hybrid feel. What makes me consider Genesis is that the pro on the Table Tennis Daily video who tests many of the popular rubbers is actually using Genesis for his league play. Thanks for the info and help! |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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Richrf, Have to check the Genesis M for the qualities you are looking for tonight. I have not tried the Calibra LT or the 05-FX so I can't compare them to the interested rubbers. I could tell you the Mantra M is decent on spin and speed but has better control than the previous generation of ESN rubbers like Rasant Grip. I could return more of the opponent's power shots with the Mantra. I can't really rate it's durability as I haven't wore one out due to my recent experimentation with Chinese rubbers, but I doubt it is very durable as I have not experience any recent ESN rubbers that really last. If you are looking for spin and the last generation of ESN rubbers, I think the Thibar Aurus Select has more spin on medium (and lower) speed loops (I use it on BH). Mantra and Aurus have lower catapult than Rasant Grip.
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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Hi Tom, thanks Right now I'm using Calibra LT, which is medium hard, on a older Killerspin Diamond CQ composite, OFF-, which needs replacing. The Diamond CQ is no longer sold as a blade so unfortunately I have to switch to another blade. Everything is fine with this setup other than I have to work hard to create spin with Calibra which i can't on a sustained basis. As a counterexample, it is easy for me to create soon with a Tenergy 05-FX but I don't have the same feeling and control that I have with Calibra. So I'm looking for some upgrade in spin without sacrificing too much speed. Appreciate any feedback on the differences between the two rubbers. I'm definitely trying to avoid any excessive catapult and also looking for durability. |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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I have used both. They are very different rubbers. What qualities are you looking for and on what blade?
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richrf
Gold Member Joined: 06/02/2009 Location: Stamford Status: Offline Points: 1522 |
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This is an older thread. I'm looking at purchasing one of these rubbers. Anyone else try them out and found some love? If so, composite or wood?
Edited by richrf - 10/20/2017 at 10:57am |
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Dear Kunglao, My review could miss-leading you for buying the rubber.
BF and Rasant has more of the things(catapult) that greatly help you generate power. Mantra may be a little less but I still confirm it's a powerful rubber. Please be patient with mantra and you will love it. |
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I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
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p1ngp0ng3r
Super Member Joined: 12/24/2005 Location: Netherlands Status: Offline Points: 226 |
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I'm a both wing looper , not playing agressively but relying on spin and placement of the ball. Also tried the Genesis by the way. Didn't like it that much, as it lacks some catapult. Control is very good and I would describe the Genesis as a perfect rubber for blocking and pushes. @Kunglao, I have played couple of months with Bluefire M and Acuda Blue P2 and prefer Mantra M. Playing TT for over 25 years at a decent regional level in my country. Liking of a rubber is purely personal ofcourse.
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Infinity VPS - Hybrid MK - T25 FX
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icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
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You mean matte. Matt is my name and not a description of a finish ;)
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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matte or shiny is relative, the shine I am talking about is a quality that reflect light off the rubber surface - kind of tiny sparkles. it still might not be clear - but I can't explain it any better.
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Crowsfeather
Super Member Joined: 08/03/2013 Location: Thailand Status: Offline Points: 448 |
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Mantra is not shiny at all, but Fresh new Genesis is.
Mantra top sheet is less grippy than Evo by notch, but overall is still grippy. Spin generation is easy. |
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I'm no longer an EJ and I'm proud .
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Kolev
Gold Member Joined: 10/04/2004 Location: Belgium Status: Offline Points: 1529 |
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I wouldn't describe the top sheet of my Mantra H as shiny. For me it is matt, very smooth matt indeed. Yes, in the beginning I had the thought that it may be a bit hard, but not anymore. I hope it will maintain it's unusual grippiness for a long time to come
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Hallmark Carbon Extreme (x3)
FH: D05/G1/RX BH: Z2/D64/Ω7Pro |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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love the Mantra H and M. I have a black Mantra 1.9 on the FH. After less than 2 months of usage the topsheet starts to lose the shine that the new sheets have and whatever remains is uneven - kind of streaky. I can't complain about the performance. Has any body else experienced this or have any thought on whether the topsheet losing its shine means anything?
BTW I have a red 2.1 M on the backhand used for the same time - but with a little less usage - the shine on it looks fine.
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Saitama
Super Member Joined: 11/15/2015 Location: Moon Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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@kunglao do you have a Mantra H? I might agree with you for a bit there. At first moments with the Mantra H I got that impression also but after a few sessions I cant say it is not a good rubber.. Take your time with it. Im pretty sure you'll enjoy it
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kunglao
Member Joined: 05/31/2004 Status: Offline Points: 67 |
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Tried mantra h after hearing about it on this forum. THIS RIBBER IS NOT GOOD! I. Don't know what level the previous reviewer is but that rubber is nothing special at all. Spin!and speed is mediocre, feels very hard and dead. If u liked blue fire and other euro type rubbers, you won't like this! The feel is terrible, feedback is non existent. Sorry but my expectations were higher so I'm thoroughly disappointed. The blue fires, rasants are much better.
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Saitama
Super Member Joined: 11/15/2015 Location: Moon Status: Offline Points: 113 |
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SPIN: MXP > Mantra H
SPEED: MXP < Mantra H Tried mxp and mantra h at the same time for weeks now. Edited by Saitama - 03/23/2017 at 6:52pm |
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emihet
Platinum Member Joined: 09/22/2009 Location: Oregon Status: Offline Points: 2315 |
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how is the spin compared with MXP
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Viscaria, Ma Long 5, Old Clippers, BTY Ovtcharov and Various Custom blades
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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yes, that's what it states on the packaging. Hard to believe the speed is almost the same. Will do a verification this Friday night and check the hardness by hand as well.
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siestakey
Super Member Joined: 01/09/2013 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 256 |
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Couldn't feel much difference , according to Stiga's specs M/H = Control 77/77 Speed 155/156 Spin 132 ?
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Siesta Key
W968 Omega Tour 7 i |
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