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New 2017 Xiom Feel Series Blades!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dual700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 10:29am
I always enjoy your reviews, Yogi. 
Thanks a lot Clap
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 10:43am
Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

theologian, of course. Unfortunately that's just the way things are when someone sends you something for free, it would take serious balls to put out a review to the internet that you didn't like it at all and wouldn't recommend it. Not honest, but it makes sense. I've yet to hear a review where a blade or rubber didn't have great spin or spin that was versatile across every type of shot. Or a serious discussion about something's drawbacks. That's why I take the publicly-published reviews lightly. It does take many sessions to accurately assess whether you really like equipment or not, and I wonder if those are accounted for in these reviews, though I doubt it. 


Not if you read reviews thoroughly and read between the lines. There are positive and negative aspects in a revirw. You just need to check them ou properly.

Oh I should have specified that I was actually referring more to the TableTennisDaily "reviews", not yours. It is good to know that you used the blade for 3 weeks, that would be about ample time to come to a conclusion. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 11:21am
What would help in general is if reviewers provide some baseline for comparisons, e.g. what type of blades they like and usually play with. I like the way TTgearlab establishes some baseline, e.g. Stiga all-around classic. This is very helpful.

Edited by richrf - 12/01/2017 at 11:22am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 11:24am
Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

What would help in general is if reviewers provide some baseline for comparisons, e.g. what type of blades they like and usually play with. I like the way TTgearlab establishes some baseline, e.g. Stiga all-around classic. This is very helpful.


They do when they compare the blade reviewed to other blades.   The ttgearlab Stiga Allround thing is a bit different: it’s about calibrating the results of lab tests.

I guess it might be interesting if reviewers got in the habit of all using the same few blades as comparison point? (eg Viscaria + Allround Classic + Clipper.) it would be hard to implement though.



Edited by ohwell - 12/01/2017 at 11:27am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 11:32am
Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

Originally posted by richrf richrf wrote:

What would help in general is if reviewers provide some baseline for comparisons, e.g. what type of blades they like and usually play with. I like the way TTgearlab establishes some baseline, e.g. Stiga all-around classic. This is very helpful.


They do when they compare the blade reviewed to other blades.   The ttgearlab Stiga Allround thing is a bit different: it’s about calibrating the results of lab tests.

I guess it might be interesting if reviewers got in the habit of all using the same few blades as comparison point? (eg Viscaria + Allround Classic + Clipper.) it would be hard to implement though.



It's not that different. It's just a different kind of "calibration". Reviewer preferences can be very helpful in understanding a POV.

But as I said previously, the biggest problem is that the manufacturer is hand selecting the reviewed material, especially so since they do not provide any v specifications can about the material being used. Thishuge. Consumers Reports, as an example, in their reviews makes a point about this and tells its readers that they diminish this issue by purchasing all products by themselves direct from a retailer. This, of course, is not feasible for table tennis reviewers, so one just had to wait for reviews from others who purchase directly from an online store.


    Edited by richrf - 12/01/2017 at 12:43pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GabrielTopspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 12:22pm
    I think everything is said, now lets come to These beautiful Babys :)

    Edited by GabrielTopspin - 12/01/2017 at 12:22pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/01/2017 at 1:23pm
    Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

    Thanks yogi.

    I have ZX2 and ZX3 provided by TT11 for review. FWIW: my speed ratings agree with manufacturers and differ from yours: ZX2 is one class faster than ZX3 (ZX3 being a bit t slower than Viscaria).


    Which manufacturer ratings, is the info on their website mistaken like for the SX? (The website gives them both the same speed rating, but gives ZXIII a higher catapult rating.)
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/03/2017 at 11:05pm
    Originally posted by ohwell ohwell wrote:

    Originally posted by slevin slevin wrote:

    Thanks yogi.

    I have ZX2 and ZX3 provided by TT11 for review. FWIW: my speed ratings agree with manufacturers and differ from yours: ZX2 is one class faster than ZX3 (ZX3 being a bit t slower than Viscaria).


    Which manufacturer ratings, is the info on their website mistaken like for the SX? (The website gives them both the same speed rating, but gives ZXIII a higher catapult rating.)

    Yeah, my impression is that the website puts the ZX3 as faster.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote slevin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/04/2017 at 10:41am
    Yes, I see that manufacturer has same speed but higher catapault rating for ZX3. I disagree. I had both blades with me to test. The ZX2 was a whole mm thicker (I measured using calipers) but was made of the same materials as the ZX3. It was clearly bouncier & had more catapault (I think I have the frequency readings on the TT11 testing page).

    Though, in the end, what matters is both blades are fast enough. What matters is whether you like Innerforce like construction or the other one (and also what thickness blades you prefer).
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LOG1C1AN Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:12pm
    Slevin was kind enough to send me the Xiom ZX3 for testing. I did a short two hour test last night. Here are my brief impressions.


    The blade is also high quality with a very smooth finish. Tons of info printed on both sides including the claim of 250 year old Kiso Hinoki wood. In my semi-professional estimate I would say the wood is not a day over 225. Tongue

    The handle has a slightly less smooth finish than the blade. It is also very slightly smaller than the width of the blade so that you can feel the blade sticking out from the handle as you run your thumb around the circumference of the handle. Not a deal breaker, but an unexpected small flaw for an expensive blade.

    This blade is light weighing 83.3 on my scale.

    I glued with rubber cement an Andro Rasanter R47 2.0 black to the FH and an Air DefenderS 2.0 red to the BH. Even with lighter 2.0 rubbers the glued blade felt head heavy in my hand which is not my preference. The wings on the blade are sharp, and if I owned it I would for sure do some sanding.

    I am currently playing with a Butterfly Primorac Carbon weighing 85 grams. A few years ago when they first hit the market I owned two Xiom Hayabusa ZXi's and played them for about 8 months.

    The line is marketed as the Feel series. This blade does have very good feel. From the very first balls I hit the blade just felt right. I did not struggle at all to place the ball where I wanted with various shots. The blade is fast, but my own blade is fast and I would estimate the speed about equal to my Primorac Carbon. I felt like the touch was probably better with the ZX3 than the Primorac. For a fast blade, the over the table and mid-range game was excellent. I rarely play far back from the table except in practice rallies, but there was enough pop to handle a long game. However, far back from the table there was a small power drop off compared to the Primorac.

    I have one major dislike about it that is a deal breaker for me. It has a very small / short handle. I'm a bigger guy at 6'3" and about 230, and the handle was uncomfortably small for me. The handle is also about 1/8" shorter than the Primorac. If I owned it I would probably have a craftsman replace the handle for me.

    Overall though, an excellent blade.




    Edited by LOG1C1AN - 12/08/2017 at 6:26pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote the_theologian Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/07/2017 at 2:19pm
    Originally posted by LOG1C1AN LOG1C1AN wrote:


    I glued with rubber cement...


    So, I'm not alone. Cheers for using rubber cement.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cyber_613 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/08/2017 at 12:17am
    Amazing feel series.
    How Feel ZX2, ZX3 compare with vega tour, vega pro?
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/10/2017 at 8:19pm
    Yogi, what are the dimensions of the Feel blades?
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 6:51am
    Here is one thing for sure. If you try one of these and like it, buy a few more immediately because nobody discontinues blades sooner after their introduction than Xiom, and they change designs of the "same" blade significantly without notice.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 7:03am
    Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

    Here is one thing for sure. If you try one of these and like it, buy a few more immediately because nobody discontinues blades sooner after their introduction than Xiom, and they change designs of the "same" blade significantly without notice.


    Yes. The Vega Pros I bought three years apart are completely different blades. Same with the Vega Tours. The second set were much stiffer and amazingly lighter.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nv42 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/11/2017 at 3:20pm
    Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

    Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

    Here is one thing for sure. If you try one of these and like it, buy a few more immediately because nobody discontinues blades sooner after their introduction than Xiom, and they change designs of the "same" blade significantly without notice.


    Yes. The Vega Pros I bought three years apart are completely different blades. Same with the Vega Tours. The second set were much stiffer and amazingly lighter.


    I have tried a few vega pros bought from tt11 and a few from tt-japan. For whatever reason, the tt11 ones were stiffer and heavier with a harder feel, while the ones from tt japan were all lighter, flexier with a nice smooth kinda feel. Definitely like the tt Japan ones better, the differnces were big enough to make it feel like a completely differnt blade.

    Maybe both retailers stocked differnt batches of the ply? Vega pro is made in Korea right? So doubt they manufacture specifically for Asia /Europe.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2017 at 9:44am
    all the xiom feel blades are 150x157mm

    updated with reviews for the sx, ax, s7
    Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS

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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2017 at 10:45am
    Yogi, what's the outer wood on AX, heat treated Koto?

    Edited by ohwell - 12/18/2017 at 10:45am
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/18/2017 at 7:15pm
    Yup it is koto
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polbotinka Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 5:10am
    Thanks for the great review.

    How do you think, is AX blade suitable for hard Chinese rubber?
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 10:21am
    Originally posted by yogi_bear yogi_bear wrote:

    Yup it is koto


    Thanks!

    One more question: how thick is the ZX1?
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 11:12am
    About 6-6.2mm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 11:15am
    I have spent a great deal of time with the zxii and ii. The difference in speed is not much but imo the zxiii has this extra bounciness and kick.
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 4:29pm
    Yogi, you say that the AX is slower than the Viscaria.  Is it by much, or just a little?  How does the speed compare to e.g. a clipper? (I might be looking for an ALC style blade that's a few notches slower than Viscaria.)
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote richrf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 9:20pm
    Originally posted by nv42 nv42 wrote:



    I have tried a few vega pros bought from tt11 and a few from tt-japan. For whatever reason, the tt11 ones were stiffer and heavier with a harder feel, while the ones from tt japan were all lighter, flexier with a nice smooth kinda feel. Definitely like the tt Japan ones better, the differnces were big enough to make it feel like a completely differnt blade.

    Maybe both retailers stocked differnt batches of the ply? Vega pro is made in Korea right? So doubt they manufacture specifically for Asia /Europe.


    Interesting. Table tennis equipment purchasing is funky.

    Edited by richrf - 12/19/2017 at 9:31pm
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 10:08pm
    Slower by 10%??? Viscaria > ax
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/19/2017 at 10:15pm
    Thanks yogi :)
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SmackDAT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2017 at 5:14pm
    Composition of ZX1 and SX with thickness please yogi?
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohwell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2017 at 6:45pm
    He gave the thickness above: SX = 6.48mm. (7w + 2, inner composite)   ZX1=6ish. (5w + 2)

    Also curious about the woods, especially the darker ply of wood under the SX’s top ply. (Walnut? Wenge?)
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    Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote yogi_bear Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/20/2017 at 10:00pm
    Anegre is sx's top ply. Zx1 is limba not hinoki
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