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ITC Ryu Seung Min JPen

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    Posted: 05/24/2018 at 9:59am
It has been a while. This time, I present you the ITC Ryu Seung Min, a limited edition JPen, offered only in 1000 pcs, made by ITC table tennis in Korea factory (previously the Adidas Table Tennis). I use Fujifilm X100F to shoot the photos, without any photoshop, quite artistic, isn't it? 

The blade size is 165mm x 134mm, measured weight is 100.3g, thickness is 10.5mm, beautiful, even grain. It is a crossover version "RYU SEUNG MIN X .TLAB", and is almost identical to Tcore Hinoki AI Prime, also made in Korea by T.lab. However, I believe hinoki grade of ITC RSM is higher than ordinary one.  I originally purchased it out of curiosity, and I never regret my decision on this one, it is superior than BTY Cypress G-max for sure. Enjoy Smile  





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2018 at 10:54am
Nice blade !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rchebel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2018 at 5:29pm
Awesome!
jpens... everywhere!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote b3nhold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/24/2018 at 11:55pm
JPen player.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/25/2018 at 2:47pm
Beautiful blade but the wood quality is nowhere near that of Darker and  Kokutaku,.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2018 at 2:51am
Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Beautiful blade but the wood quality is nowhere near that of Darker and  Kokutaku,.

How can you tell? Have you get a hold the blade yet?
I have played many of Jpens, of course I know how to differentiate good or bad. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kakapo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2018 at 6:20am
A real Beauty !!! Congrats.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ChichoFicho Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2018 at 11:23am
Originally posted by zeroencore zeroencore wrote:

Originally posted by ChichoFicho ChichoFicho wrote:

Beautiful blade but the wood quality is nowhere near that of Darker and  Kokutaku,.

How can you tell? Have you get a hold the blade yet?
I have played many of Jpens, of course I know how to differentiate good or bad. 

It's so obvious. The lines are not straight and they are much dense to the right side compared to the left side.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2018 at 4:52pm
I use to obsess with perfect grain quality. Until I realized with the top level jpens it's the least important factor. Weight and hardness are much more important. You should do a frequency test to see how the ITC compares to your other blades.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windysummer1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2018 at 5:51pm
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

I use to obsess with perfect grain quality. Until I realized with the top level jpens it's the least important factor. Weight and hardness are much more important. You should do a frequency test to see how the ITC compares to your other blades.
What is the heaviest and the lightest weight you have ever seen?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jpenmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/26/2018 at 6:32pm
Depends on thickness. For 10mm there is a 35g variance 80g-115g I am sure there are lighter and heavier than that.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2018 at 12:42am
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

I use to obsess with perfect grain quality. Until I realized with the top level jpens it's the least important factor. Weight and hardness are much more important. You should do a frequency test to see how the ITC compares to your other blades.

I completely agree weight and hardness are dominant factor to decide a blade's quality. Also, I get it from experience by listening to the "sound" by bouncing a ball on the blade. Blade with high pitch is definitely a hard blade.  But there is more, because the wood may come from different part of tree trunk, by listening to the sound, I can now tell it is more to the bottom or else. And I tend to like those wood from tree bottom (just like wine, aged wood is always better than young wood Wink).  
My blade selection priority: 
Sound > Weight > Blade Size > Thickness > Grain > White Edge/Stripe

What do you mean by frequency test? How many times a ball bounce on a blade for let say 15 seconds? Or I use a sound meter to measure the decibels? My gratitude if you can further elaborate on this one. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2018 at 12:57am
There is a higher grade of this ITC RSM version: 
The only difference is by chinese character "特" on blade surface , and gold colour label on top of the cork handle. 
Photos in courtesy of innott-shop.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2018 at 1:33am
Originally posted by zeroencore zeroencore wrote:

I completely agree weight and hardness are dominant factor to decide a blade's quality. Also, I get it from experience by listening to the "sound" by bouncing a ball on the blade. Blade with high pitch is definitely a hard blade.  But there is more, because the wood may come from different part of tree trunk, by listening to the sound, I can now tell it is more to the bottom or else. And I tend to like those wood from tree bottom (just like wine, aged wood is always better than young wood Wink).  
My blade selection priority: 
Sound > Weight > Blade Size > Thickness > Grain > White Edge/Stripe

What do you mean by frequency test? How many times a ball bounce on a blade for let say 15 seconds? Or I use a sound meter to measure the decibels? My gratitude if you can further elaborate on this one. 


zeroencore, could you please explain a bit more about how you select your blades?
You said the main factor is sound and that it correlates to hardness. For you, do you prefer higher pitch (harder) or lower pitch (softer) hinoki blades? And why? And how this affects gameplay?

Thanks in advance



Edited by shinshiro - 05/27/2018 at 1:39am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2018 at 1:49am
Shinshiro,

Please do some research yourself before asking. My explanation is simply physics.
Also, I recall you have personnally PM me to ask me about same questions and I have given answers to you. Dont always expect a straightforward answer, what is the point of learning if you get answers all the time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/27/2018 at 7:49am
Originally posted by zeroencore zeroencore wrote:

Shinshiro,

Please do some research yourself before asking. My explanation is simply physics.
Also, I recall you have personnally PM me to ask me about same questions and I have given answers to you. Dont always expect a straightforward answer, what is the point of learning if you get answers all the time.

You are right about the PM, I forgot I already had asked you, I'm sorry.
However I don't see a problem on asking, listening to others personal experience from people that have more experience than you is also part of research. 






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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windysummer1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2018 at 8:03am
Which website did you order from?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote windysummer1 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2018 at 8:06am
Originally posted by jpenmaster jpenmaster wrote:

Depends on thickness. For 10mm there is a 35g variance 80g-115g I am sure there are lighter and heavier than that.

The heaviest J pen hinoki I saw is 118gram, but the heaviest J pen I saw so far is a 11mm Taiwan hinoki, 133grams
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2018 at 9:36am
Information for sharing. 
One advice for you "shinshiro", if you don't know something and wish to learn, BE HUMBLE & POLITE. I dislike the way you ask questions. It is a sophistry, not opinion.  
Once again, I have no obligation to answer your questions.  

The following is the conversation between me and shinshiro:  

From Shinshiro

-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : shinshiro
Sent : 02/05/2018 at 3:32pm
"Hi zeroencore

I may buy a 1 ply hinoki blade soon, but I still have some doubts regarding wood hardness. Since you seem to be one of the most experienced users here when it comes to 1 ply blades, could you please help me if possible?

I know that hinoki hardness can cary, even within the same type of hinoki. 
But what are the differences in playability between a hard 1 ply hinoki and a soft 1 ply? (speed? gears? spin? control? or just feeling?)

On rubbers, it seems that generally the softer ones have more catapult (less linear) on soft touches, but don't have the top speed the hard rubbers have. Does this reasoning also applies to blade 1 ply blade hardness?

Sorry for bother you. I would appreciate if you could help me.

Best regards,
Shin"


My Reply: 
-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : zeroencore
Sent : 03/05/2018 at 9:06am
Hello Shinshiro, 

Thanks for your compliment, however I am just a normal user like you who wish to understand more wood characteristics of Hinoki, rather than just playing with them.  

There is no best. It really depends on your playing style. If you are looping player like KTS or RSM, then you will like more dwell time of TT ball on your blade, then you go for soft; If your playing style is hitting more than looping (e.g. a good looping player require fast & good footwork which is the hardest part to achieve) then you go for hard blade. Harder blade give you hard feelingWink, less dwell time and require more precision on ball hitting angle, and faster time require for your forehand to complete the action to produce power shot.  In short, hard blade is harder to control. Soft blade is the opposite. 

In terms of speed, you can search on google for 1st speed or 2nd speed of TT ball after hitting the ball. I leave you to explore the terms yourself. 

Gears is the hardest part: you never know 100% until you actually start using the blade. If you change blade frequently you will know what I mean. You will understand throughout the process what you really want after using different blade to suit your playing style. There is no shortcut. 

Not really. Given same blade weight and dimension, softer blade tends to have more curvy shots on opposite table once you hit; harder blade is relatively, straightforward shots after hitting. Total power generated is the same, the only difference is on the ratio of speed and spin. 

Cheers.   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2018 at 9:38am
Originally posted by windysummer1 windysummer1 wrote:

Which website did you order from?

I got it from my local shop. I am not sure if there is any online channel to get this blade. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote shinshiro Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2018 at 12:35pm
Originally posted by zeroencore zeroencore wrote:

Information for sharing. 
One advice for you "shinshiro", if you don't know something and wish to learn, BE HUMBLE & POLITE. I dislike the way you ask questions. It is a sophistry, not opinion.  
Once again, I have no obligation to answer your questions.  

The following is the conversation between me and shinshiro:  

From Shinshiro

-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : shinshiro
Sent : 02/05/2018 at 3:32pm
"Hi zeroencore

I may buy a 1 ply hinoki blade soon, but I still have some doubts regarding wood hardness. Since you seem to be one of the most experienced users here when it comes to 1 ply blades, could you please help me if possible?

I know that hinoki hardness can cary, even within the same type of hinoki. 
But what are the differences in playability between a hard 1 ply hinoki and a soft 1 ply? (speed? gears? spin? control? or just feeling?)

On rubbers, it seems that generally the softer ones have more catapult (less linear) on soft touches, but don't have the top speed the hard rubbers have. Does this reasoning also applies to blade 1 ply blade hardness?

Sorry for bother you. I would appreciate if you could help me.

Best regards,
Shin"


My Reply: 
-- Previous Private Message --
Sent by : zeroencore
Sent : 03/05/2018 at 9:06am
Hello Shinshiro, 

Thanks for your compliment, however I am just a normal user like you who wish to understand more wood characteristics of Hinoki, rather than just playing with them.  

There is no best. It really depends on your playing style. If you are looping player like KTS or RSM, then you will like more dwell time of TT ball on your blade, then you go for soft; If your playing style is hitting more than looping (e.g. a good looping player require fast & good footwork which is the hardest part to achieve) then you go for hard blade. Harder blade give you hard feelingWink, less dwell time and require more precision on ball hitting angle, and faster time require for your forehand to complete the action to produce power shot.  In short, hard blade is harder to control. Soft blade is the opposite. 

In terms of speed, you can search on google for 1st speed or 2nd speed of TT ball after hitting the ball. I leave you to explore the terms yourself. 

Gears is the hardest part: you never know 100% until you actually start using the blade. If you change blade frequently you will know what I mean. You will understand throughout the process what you really want after using different blade to suit your playing style. There is no shortcut. 

Not really. Given same blade weight and dimension, softer blade tends to have more curvy shots on opposite table once you hit; harder blade is relatively, straightforward shots after hitting. Total power generated is the same, the only difference is on the ratio of speed and spin. 

Cheers.   

Zeroencore,
Probably it is language barrier from my part, but I honestly don't understand why my pm/posts sound not humble or not polite. If they sound like it, I sincerely apoligize. I didn't want to be disrespectful with you or with any other user here. 

I also send this pm about hinoki hardness for jpenmaster and MTMT. If jpenmaster or MTMT also feel that my way of writting is not adequate, then I apologize too, I absolutely didn't want to be disrespecful.

zeroencore, jpenmaster and MTMT, please feel free to PM me telling me what part of my writting is not adequate. I would be glad if you (or anyone who is reading this thread) could help me. I certainly don't want to make the same mistake again.

I don't wan't to derail more this thread. I'm sorry again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2018 at 3:38am
Gold and Silver ITC RSM side by side photo for sharingSmile

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MTMT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/19/2018 at 11:02pm
I just chanced upon this thread.  Glad that I did. 

I'm not taking any sides but will note that Shinshiro has contacted me many times via private messaging and I've never once felt he was rude or overbearing. I have always appreciated Shinshiro's questions, thoughts and enthusiasm even though I am no expert. 

So Shinshiro, no worries from me. You have been great. Wish you the best in your finding the 'perfect' one ply Hinoki. Which reminds me - I still need to find time to post some photos...:)

As to weight range, my lightest 10.5mm JPEN Hinoki is 81 grams.  And the heaviest of the same is 110grams. The 81 grams feels incredibly soft and the 110 grams felt incredibly powerful. The most powerful blade I have ever tested. 

The odd thing is that I visited a manufacturer a couple of months back and was testing a bunch of one ply Hinoki and there was a 9mm shakehand that for some subjective reason, just FELT fantastic in my hand. I picked that up though I am not a shakehand player. Not sure what to do with that but for some reason, that blade just felt right - solid with high control.  Quite tempted to cut it down into a penhold...LOL!

MTMT


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote aeoliah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2018 at 3:24am
I wonder what is the lightest single ply hinoki J-pen available on the market. The lightest in my collection is Darker Hy-Blade weighing 76 grams.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2018 at 11:40am
Originally posted by MTMT MTMT wrote:

I just chanced upon this thread.  Glad that I did. 

I'm not taking any sides but will note that Shinshiro has contacted me many times via private messaging and I've never once felt he was rude or overbearing. I have always appreciated Shinshiro's questions, thoughts and enthusiasm even though I am no expert. 

So Shinshiro, no worries from me. You have been great. Wish you the best in your finding the 'perfect' one ply Hinoki. Which reminds me - I still need to find time to post some photos...:)

As to weight range, my lightest 10.5mm JPEN Hinoki is 81 grams.  And the heaviest of the same is 110grams. The 81 grams feels incredibly soft and the 110 grams felt incredibly powerful. The most powerful blade I have ever tested. 

The odd thing is that I visited a manufacturer a couple of months back and was testing a bunch of one ply Hinoki and there was a 9mm shakehand that for some subjective reason, just FELT fantastic in my hand. I picked that up though I am not a shakehand player. Not sure what to do with that but for some reason, that blade just felt right - solid with high control.  Quite tempted to cut it down into a penhold...LOL!

MTMT

MTMT, 

Your action contradict to your wording. 
This is my personal post, if you are not taking any side, you should not leave your comments with regard to Shinshiro here. This is inappropriate. Leave it. 

I respect your knowledge on blade characteristics. However, I hope you do not try to impose your thoughts on others. 

Nevertheless, I welcome any constructive comments on hinoki study other than that. 

Gameplay is all about balance. 110 grams may be powerful, as a trade off you compensate flexibility from push/block to flick/smash/looping position, changing angle of hitting, longevity of play, and because of centre of gravity is slightly close to blade head, your wrist will experience quite amount of pressure due to centrifugal force when you hit the ball hard. 

Cheers.Wink
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote photino Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/20/2018 at 11:53pm
Originally posted by zeroencore zeroencore wrote:

Originally posted by MTMT MTMT wrote:

I just chanced upon this thread.  Glad that I did. 

I'm not taking any sides but will note that Shinshiro has contacted me many times via private messaging and I've never once felt he was rude or overbearing. I have always appreciated Shinshiro's questions, thoughts and enthusiasm even though I am no expert. 

So Shinshiro, no worries from me. You have been great. Wish you the best in your finding the 'perfect' one ply Hinoki. Which reminds me - I still need to find time to post some photos...:)

As to weight range, my lightest 10.5mm JPEN Hinoki is 81 grams.  And the heaviest of the same is 110grams. The 81 grams feels incredibly soft and the 110 grams felt incredibly powerful. The most powerful blade I have ever tested. 

The odd thing is that I visited a manufacturer a couple of months back and was testing a bunch of one ply Hinoki and there was a 9mm shakehand that for some subjective reason, just FELT fantastic in my hand. I picked that up though I am not a shakehand player. Not sure what to do with that but for some reason, that blade just felt right - solid with high control.  Quite tempted to cut it down into a penhold...LOL!

MTMT


MTMT, 

Your action contradict to your wording. 
This is my personal post, if you are not taking any side, you should not leave your comments with regard to Shinshiro here. This is inappropriate. Leave it. 

I respect your knowledge on blade characteristics. However, I hope you do not try to impose your thoughts on others. 

Nevertheless, I welcome any constructive comments on hinoki study other than that. 

Gameplay is all about balance. 110 grams may be powerful, as a trade off you compensate flexibility from push/block to flick/smash/looping position, changing angle of hitting, longevity of play, and because of centre of gravity is slightly close to blade head, your wrist will experience quite amount of pressure due to centrifugal force when you hit the ball hard. 

Cheers.Wink
 


I don’t think there’s such a thing “personal post” here. Once you posted on the forum, it’s public and everyone has right to comment. It’s not up to the op to choose who can and who cannot comments. Regards
EJ-turned blade collector
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2018 at 1:07am
I said feel free to give constructive comments with regard to Hinoki or equipment.
Not opinion about other forum member attitude.

Read specific before you speak, photino.
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Thanks Photino. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2018 at 8:25am
As moderator of the forum I am formally warning zeroencore that your behavior in your last several posts on this thread is out of line. In Rome a forum was a place where people congregated to meet, discuss, transact business etc. This website is called a forum for a reason. OPs don't own threads and should not insult every member who has a question or comment. See the forum rules if you need guidance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeroencore Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 06/21/2018 at 9:10am
Thanks Baal for mediation. 
I thought too much and cause such troublesome misunderstanding.  
My apology. 




Edited by zeroencore - 06/21/2018 at 10:02am
BTY Special + T64
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