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Harimoto forehand technique

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZhouZhekai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 1:47pm
How exactly is Harimoto's forehand amateurish. I agree that it is unconventional, and maybe injury prone, and not as great as his backhand. Many of the great players also had unconventional techniques: Gatien, Zhang Jike, Wang Liqin, Kreanga, and i think boll even described Waldners forehand as having no topspin(what does that mean). 

However one still has to consider that this is a forehand with which a 14/15 year old can survive in the World Top 20 relatively easily, so maybe compared to 25-35 year old it could be considered average.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rocketman222 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 1:52pm
Yeah, what non-sense is this calling harimoto's forehand being at an amatuer level, do you guys even know what constitutes amatuer level, its basically us, we are the amateurs, and I'd like to see someone with an amateur forehand take on and get matches off of the top 10 players.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PythonMonty Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 9:37pm
That's not an amateur level forehand. Wouldn't bet my life on it, but I'd wager a beer that Harimoto could beat a US 2500 level amateur using only his forehand. Most sports fans drastically underestimate the difference between pros and amateurs.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 10:55pm
Harimoto's forehand is not his strength, but its quickness, angles, and placement are strengths that compensate for its lack of pure power. In my June 11 blog I wrote about the six main things that make him so good. One of them was the following:

"5. Forehand without backing up. He doesn't nearly have the power of Ma Long or Fan Zhendong (yet), but his forehand is quicker, allowing him to take nearly every ball without backing up. Off a hard-hit shot I'd guess he takes the ball on average a full foot quicker than Ma or Fan. This puts tremendous time pressure on opponents, and makes his placement even more effective as players struggle to cover for these quick, aggressive topspins right at their elbow or at wide angles. On most shots, he can still loop at full power, but when rushed, he sacrifices speed for quickness and angles."

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/11/2018 at 11:00pm
Originally posted by ZhouZhekai ZhouZhekai wrote:

How exactly is Harimoto's forehand amateurish. I agree that it is unconventional, and maybe injury prone, and not as great as his backhand. Many of the great players also had unconventional techniques: Gatien, Zhang Jike, Wang Liqin, Kreanga, and i think boll even described Waldners forehand as having no topspin(what does that mean). 

However one still has to consider that this is a forehand with which a 14/15 year old can survive in the World Top 20 relatively easily, so maybe compared to 25-35 year old it could be considered average.  



Liu gouliang said that harimoto FH was like a girl FH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/12/2018 at 3:15am
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

Originally posted by ZhouZhekai ZhouZhekai wrote:

How exactly is Harimoto's forehand amateurish. I agree that it is unconventional, and maybe injury prone, and not as great as his backhand. Many of the great players also had unconventional techniques: Gatien, Zhang Jike, Wang Liqin, Kreanga, and i think boll even described Waldners forehand as having no topspin(what does that mean). 

However one still has to consider that this is a forehand with which a 14/15 year old can survive in the World Top 20 relatively easily, so maybe compared to 25-35 year old it could be considered average.  



Liu gouliang said that harimoto FH was like a girl FH
maybe liu guoliang wanted to be funny but he made a great point: as we get closer to the table we play more like girls, control, placement, elbo closer to the body for quicker recovery etc.. He indirectly said that given Harimoto getting closer to the table, his fh had to be more compact. He complimented Harimoto without complimenting Japan, he respected his own technical knowledge and at the same time he respected his team, good man! I wish luck on his way back (I used to think he was playing king too much and now I miss him).



Liu talked too about lacking power in his FH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 7:28am
Harimoto at age 14
[Liu gouliang said that harimoto FH was like a girl FH

Liu talked too about lacking power in his FH]

From an important perspective, Liu Guoliang is completely wrong concerning Harimoto's forehand.  Harimoto has a powerful forehand for a 14 year old.  Since Liu has taken this stand, he should produce a video of more powerful 14 year old forehands.  I say this: Just wait until Harimoto gets really old, like age 17, then we will see what we will see.

It is important to remember that Liu did not spend long years professionally developing very young players.  He was, due to political strength, vaulted quickly to the coaching stratosphere.  Among the great Chinese coaches that have the young player developmental background, you will not find Liu confirmation.

Also, it is known that Liu, socially, strongly favors the "traditional" roles for women  (or "girls").  This was evident from a number of sources, including in the absence of women coaches at the highest level of the Chinese table tennis team system.  Men, men, men.  This attitude is decidedly not in compliance with the Chinese national leadership.  It is instructive that happily now, in this table tennis structure, women are found where they were not before.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 9:33am
it is what it is, get over the age thing,  not talking about potential, just the current status
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote lineup32 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 9:51am
Originally posted by tom tom wrote:

it is what it is, get over the age thing,  not talking about potential, just the current status



8/2018 – General List – Men
Ranking     Previous     Name     Assoc.     Ranking Pts.
1     1     FAN Zhendong     CHN     17001
2     5     XU Xin     CHN     15385
3     2     BOLL Timo     GER     15205
4      3     LIN Gaoyuan     CHN     15189
5     4     OVTCHAROV Dimitrij     GER     14915
6     8     HARIMOTO Tomokazu     JPN     13584
7     6     MA Long     CHN     1350
8     7     LEE Sangsu     KOR     13374
9      10     CALDERANO Hugo     BRA     13355
10     9     WONG Chun Ting     HKG     12969
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

Harimoto at age 14
[Liu gouliang said that harimoto FH was like a girl FH
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Liu talked too about lacking power in his FH]</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">From an important perspective, Liu Guoliang is completely wrong concerning Harimoto's forehand.  Harimoto has a powerful forehand for a 14 year old.  Since Liu has taken this stand, he should produce a video of more powerful 14 year old forehands.  I say this: Just wait until Harimoto gets really old, like age 17, then we will see what we will see.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">It is important to remember that Liu did not spend long years professionally developing very young players.  He was, due to political strength, vaulted quickly to the coaching stratosphere.  Among the great Chinese coaches that have the young player developmental background, you will not find Liu confirmation.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Also, it is known that Liu, socially, strongly favors the "traditional" roles for women  (or "girls").  This was evident from a number of sources, including in the absence of women coaches at the highest level of the Chinese table tennis team system.  Men, men, men.  This attitude is decidedly not in compliance with the Chinese national leadership.  It is instructive that happily now, in this table tennis structure, women are found where they were not before.</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">
</span>
<span style=": rgb251, 251, 253;">Thanks.   </span>



Can you point who says that liu is wrong?. So he or you must be a better coach to prove liu is wrong.
I dont see haromito scoring with his forehand check the natch against filus ruwen

Post a match where you can back your argument that liu is wrong regarding harimoto FH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 2:30pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 Can you point who says that liu is wrong?. So he or you must be a better coach to prove liu is wrong.
I dont see haromito scoring with his forehand check the natch against filus ruwen

Post a match where you can back your argument that liu is wrong regarding harimoto FH

Harimoto scored lots of points with his quick, angled forehand in his win over Ma Long, and in similar matches. Ma could have played more to Harimoto's forehand, but instead went mostly crosscourt to Harimoto's backhand since any shot to Harimoto's forehand would have been met with that quick forehand. It's not as powerful as Ma's or Fan's, but quite effective. Otherwise, Ma and everyone else would simply play to Harimoto's forehand - but that simply doesn't work unless it's a very strong attack or they get Harimoto out of position first. 

And as people keep noting, he's still basically a kid who just turned 15 and will gain power as he gets older. The question is not whether he has as much power as, say, Ma or Fan, but whether he has comparable power for the best players his age. It would be pretty stupid tactics for him to go up against Ma or Fan and try to match them forehand power to power, so he does what he does better than they do, and so focuses on quickness and angles. 
-Larry Hodges


Edited by larrytt - 08/15/2018 at 1:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bardock Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/14/2018 at 5:55pm
I mean he doesn't have the strongest forehand but definitely not amateur his forehand is pro level. Like Larry Hodges said his forehand is really quick and his angles are very good and it makes sense not everyone is textbook. But I notice other then him having a really quick forehand he really gets the ball right of the bounce so its like a onslaught of quick shots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote garwor Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 5:12am
if quick shots instead of power shots are future, soon woman will start beating man? They are smaller(less mass to move) and already adopted quick shots style.

Liu Shiwen vs Harimoto, what you think?
Mima Ito vs Ma Long?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WeebleWobble Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 8:53am
His forehand looked more powerful and "adult-like" in his last tournament.

Edited by WeebleWobble - 08/15/2018 at 8:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BRS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 10:39am
Originally posted by garwor garwor wrote:

if quick shots instead of power shots are future, soon woman will start beating man? They are smaller(less mass to move) and already adopted quick shots style.

Liu Shiwen vs Harimoto, what you think?
Mima Ito vs Ma Long?


I would love to see both thoae matches.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 11:11am
Originally posted by BRS BRS wrote:

Originally posted by garwor garwor wrote:

if quick shots instead of power shots are future, soon woman will start beating man? They are smaller(less mass to move) and already adopted quick shots style.

Liu Shiwen vs Harimoto, what you think?
Mima Ito vs Ma Long?


I would love to see both thoae matches.


I dont think harimoto can beat ma long again
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 11:28am
Come on guys he's just a 15 yr old kid....even Fan Zhendong at 16 had power issues...and look where he is now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 11:43am
Originally posted by garwor garwor wrote:

if quick shots instead of power shots are future, soon woman will start beating man? They are smaller(less mass to move) and already adopted quick shots style.

Liu Shiwen vs Harimoto, what you think?
Mima Ito vs Ma Long?

good point LOLLOL 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 12:11pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

Come on guys he's just a 15 yr old kid....even Fan Zhendong at 16 had power issues...and look where he is now!


Fan was faster at 16 harimoto plays flatfooted
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 1:55pm
Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 Fan was faster at 16 harimoto plays flatfooted
Harimoto is not flatfooted. Here's video of him vs. Fan Zhendong. Watch both of their feet - they are constantly in motion, the opposite of flatfooted. The difference you may be thinking of is more about style - Harimoto has one of the best backhands in the world and so tends to play a more backhand-oriented game, while Fan has one of the best forehands in the world and so plays a more forehand-oriented game. 
-Larry Hodges


Edited by larrytt - 08/15/2018 at 1:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by larrytt larrytt wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 Fan was faster at 16 harimoto plays flatfooted
Harimoto is not flatfooted. Here's video of him vs. Fan Zhendong. Watch both of their feet - they are constantly in motion, the opposite of flatfooted. The difference you may be thinking of is more about style - Harimoto has one of the best backhands in the world and so tends to play a more backhand-oriented game, while Fan has one of the best forehands in the world and so plays a more forehand-oriented game. 
-Larry Hodges

Larry, you may want to save your energy. Mykonos96 has come out of nowhere and made a disproportionate number of ridiculous claims in his short time as a poster here. Just saying...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by larrytt larrytt wrote:

Originally posted by mykonos96 mykonos96 wrote:

 Fan was faster at 16 harimoto plays flatfooted

Harimoto is not flatfooted. Here's video of him vs. Fan Zhendong. Watch both of their feet - they are constantly in motion, the opposite of flatfooted. The difference you may be thinking of is more about style - Harimoto has one of the best backhands in the world and so tends to play a more backhand-oriented game, while Fan has one of the best forehands in the world and so plays a more forehand-oriented game. 
-Larry Hodges



Thanks for your input larry its great to know the opinion of someone who really knows the sport unlike some posters that pretend they know about the table tennis and being hostile.

Bard romance your opinion means nothing for me


Edited by mykonos96 - 08/15/2018 at 3:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/15/2018 at 4:27pm
I never personally go in for all the technique side of Table tennis, simply because what is 'correct' at any given point in time is not later on. The paradox is that without deviations in the mainstream coaching mantra TT would never evolve.
 TT evolves in cycles determined by innovation, without that the game would never evolve. If a player, technically can move, play a stroke and recover consistently, they have everything needed to go as far as their devotion will take them.  Look at players  like kreanga, Schlager,  and in his day Waldner, they all bucked the coaching trend of their time.  China is a little different, a very technique orientated system that obviously works for them , but they have numbers on their side.  European  table tennis innovations have determined Chinese Innovations, firstly by the Hungarians, secondly by the  Swedes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2018 at 6:32am
In addition, your technique has to match your body shape and dimensions. Samsonov and FZD would never look similar regardless of who coached them! Also there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is a video of Werner Schlager coaching footwork where he advocates a very efficient way of moving that runs counter to about 99.9% of coaching dogma.

The thing I notice about Harimoto is the quality of his serving and how smart he plays. And still a kid! When he gets stronger he will be even more scary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2018 at 7:11am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

There is a video of Werner Schlager coaching footwork where he advocates a very efficient way of moving that runs counter to about 99.9% of coaching dogma.
I think that was where he was showing a kid how to follow through back into position after looping a forehand from the wide forehand. It wasn't so much against coaching dogma as an classic example of high-level technique that isn't common below that level. Most players don't realize that you should adjust your follow-through based on your positioning so as to position yourself better for the next shot. I did a Tip of the Week on this once. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/16/2018 at 10:37am
Originally posted by larrytt larrytt wrote:

Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

There is a video of Werner Schlager coaching footwork where he advocates a very efficient way of moving that runs counter to about 99.9% of coaching dogma.
I think that was where he was showing a kid how to follow through back into position after looping a forehand from the wide forehand. It wasn't so much against coaching dogma as an classic example of high-level technique that isn't common below that level. Most players don't realize that you should adjust your follow-through based on your positioning so as to position yourself better for the next shot. I did a Tip of the Week on this once. 
-Larry Hodges
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tt Gold Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2018 at 7:57am
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

In addition, your technique has to match your body shape and dimensions. Samsonov and FZD would never look similar regardless of who coached them! Also there is more than one way to skin a cat. There is a video of Werner Schlager coaching footwork where he advocates a very efficient way of moving that runs counter to about 99.9% of coaching dogma.

The thing I notice about Harimoto is the quality of his serving and how smart he plays. And still a kid! When he gets stronger he will be even more scary.
where can I find the video?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2018 at 8:31am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/17/2018 at 3:33pm
 Liam Pitchford! he has his own technique, think about that. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 08/19/2018 at 10:52pm
When Harimoto started playing in pro tournaments his forehand was not strong enough to generate much power on his own relative to the older/bigger players so he "borrows" power from the incoming shot and redirects as Larry pointed out. It's more of a counter hit/drive and is optimized more towards low cycle time rather than spin and speed. There is a clear difference between his current stroke technique and that of the ML and FZD. But I think this reflects a different approach by the coaching and player development systems as a lot of the JPN players have that close to the table block and fast counter-attack style, whereas the CN players tend mix in more big drive loops. 

I also have a question with regard to the "new style"  of play due to the nature of the new ball. 

What happened in the Australian & Bulgarian open finals? 

If HT is the way forward and spinning the ball and using big drive FHs is outdated then why did XX pretty much dominate HT and KM?

Here is one comparison of stroke styles. 










Edited by V-Griper - 08/19/2018 at 11:10pm
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