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New Tenergy 05 HARD is coming out next Friday 28th |
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
Thanks for the reply. [What that review said seemed perfectly plausible to me.] The final point of the review list is:
Given the premise of the harder sponge, so much harder that it is entitled in the rubber, do you think this last point is likely? Thanks
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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And your evidence for this is......... ???? Do you have some inside technical information or are you just using The Force?
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jpenmaster
Platinum Member Joined: 12/24/2008 Location: Chicago Status: Offline Points: 2176 |
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Pushed back till Nov 1st release in North America now
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OSP Expert II w DNA Dragon Grip
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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I cant spend money to make a test to make you believe Do you think a rubber would bounce without booster? Or you believe in the magical air bubbles inside tenergy sponge?. There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster Edited by mykonos96 - 09/21/2018 at 10:24pm |
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
Very good observations in this thread. [(jpenmaster) We all know there has been a pro player version for a while and I'm not sure T05 Hard will be a copy of that.] [(chroot) Saw some “pro” version of T05 listed for sale before.] Few are more behind the curve than I: I, for one, did not know there was a commercially available "pro player version" for sale. I do know that in a number of interviews, Timo Boll never tires of repeating the comment about the unfair advantage of the Chinese because you cannot buy the rubber they use; it is not available. It is clear he implies the rubber he uses is available to buy. Thanks
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Timo s rubbers are not available for amateurs |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I know for a fact that the structure of the pores is one of the key factors. But I'm not going to argue this point in detail. Tenergy has many fundamental differences from other modern rubbers. Actually I think it was better when it first came out. I personallthink it was harder then.
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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Like all great conspiracy theories, who needs to both with facts or proof? The claim that Tenergy comes from the factory with boosting ranks right up there with claim that 9/11 was arranged by our own government and that the Moon landing never happened.
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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From what I've read and what I've been told, pros were always given harder versions of Tenergy. It's not "Tenergy Pro" like some people claim. Every batch of rubber has different hardness between the center and the ends. It's like saying that some cuts of beef produce superior (and more expensive) steaks. I've never seen any place that actually sold "pro Tenergy", but I could imagine a professional giving away some of his sheets, which would be harder. I don't think the new Tenergy Hard is the same thing. There was a limited amount of harder rubber available in the current "regular" Tenergy. My guess is that they have a new, more dense version of the Tenergy sponge. Ironically, that probably means there will be a pro version of Tenergy Hard, too. I would dearly love to see a hands-on review of the stuff, but I guess we'll have to wait until November.
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Not to be a killjoy but, I would not be surprised if it is as heavy as 58g cut.
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Trade feedback:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=50787 |
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Its easy if you re eager to spend 400$ on a lab test. Feel the oily sponge smell a rakza9 straight from the package and you will smell dandoy TRF . 2nd time tell me why tenergy would bounce like other factory boosted rubbers like rakza if its not boosted? |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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But there is no smell or oily feeling with Tenergy; no sign of any additive. Simply because adding a booster is one way to improve rubber performance doesn't mean it's the only way. All rubbers depend a lot upon the chemical mix of compounds used both for top sheet and sponge (separately), plus the sponge can vary a lot depending upon pores and density. Tenergy acts the way it does because that is the way those composite parts (sponge and topsheet) are designed to work. It doesn't need booster to perform. An analogy to your argument would be if you claimed that all athletes must use performance-enhancing drugs to play well simply because some athletes require them to be great (I'm not thinking table tennis in this analogy; more like bike racing or perhaps baseball). It's not real logic.
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Leftstudio
Super Member Joined: 02/21/2018 Location: Earth Status: Offline Points: 230 |
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After visiting the training facility in China for National Team, all I see is hard work. The players didn't really talk about equipments. The amount of workload that those players do is incredible - no wonder why they are on top of the world. Equipments are important but moreover is the willing to spend hours and hours working. It is the army over there - the atmosphere is almost like a military camp. Can I give my 2cents here? If I have the blade of MaLong can I hit the ball like him? If we have the blade of MaLong can we hit the ball like him?
Edited by Leftstudio - 09/23/2018 at 3:48am |
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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Hi,
This thread confirms unequivocally just how impressive in expertise and thought our sport's serious students are. A few comments on some picked off statements in the thread. [I noticed past 6month to a year that a lot of Butterfly PROS (Boll, Pitch, Freitas, etc) started playing faster more aggressive with more power... Has anyone noticed that? I am wondering if this is due to 05 HARD? I assume so, as timo boll topspins are much harder in 2018 then years back...] I have noticed the same thing, strikingly so. I was watching two Top 30 in the world players in a match. Both are great, however what was really noteworthy was the performance of their rackets (Cornilleau and Butterfly). On their power shots, the balls were just rocketing out with extreme power of speed and spin. It was very distinctive. Also, I've notice Samsonov will occasionally execute offensive shots at a power level he never had before. [Pushed back till Nov 1st release in North America now] Knowing something about how the world works, we should discover information out of Europe and Asia sooner than this. [There are boosters for donic bty nittaku. Its up to you to believe ,any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster] Some treacherous water here. [There are boosters for donic bty nittaku] Accepted as stated, the boosters I'm familiar with claim effectiveness with all the sponges. In the marketplace, there are not exclusive distinctions made for the booster companies' targeted sponges. [any large tt dealer know that every brand has its own developed booster] It may be close to the case that this is true for the major manufacturers of rubber, however those boosters are not commercially available. [Tenergy has many fundamental differences from other modern rubbers. Actually I think it was better when it first came out. I personallthink it was harder then.] This is an uncomfortable statement. It means that without public declaration, Butterfly altered the specification of Tenergy to the extent that the playing characteristics' variation may be readily detected by a typical player. [Ironically, that probably means there will be a pro version of Tenergy Hard, too.] So, do you enjoy torturing the cognoscenti? [Not to be a killjoy but, I would not be surprised if it is as heavy as 58g cut.] I'm sorry to report, but you failed: You are a killjoy. Thanks
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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This should be funny but what exactly would you test for? And where? Be specific. |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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And claims that contradict the theory are dismissed as coming from idiots who are not privy to secret inside information or sometimes with the accusation that it is part of the conspiracy. Ben, you MUST BE ONE OF THEM! 😦 |
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kevo
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: ireland Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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Interesting you should say this as today, while watching the Euro Champs final between Timo and Ionescu, I noticed that Timo was twiddling his bat around to the BH (red) rubber for smashes, much like the CNT guys do. I had always assumed (and had read) that Timo used 05 on both sides, unboosted (or factory boosted like all the rest of us), and so wondered how/why his BH rubber was softer and therefore better for controlling smashes of high lobs. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller... (Timo was brilliant btw, and I couldn't see anything different in his play that might indicate a rubber change but I wasn't looking for it then either...)
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kevo
Super Member Joined: 01/16/2012 Location: ireland Status: Offline Points: 469 |
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Ok, just read over at TTDaily that 'as of Sept. 1, 2018', Boll uses O5 Hard on FH and 05 of BH. Question answered. I should be a PI...
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DonnOlsen
Gold Member Joined: 11/15/2008 Location: Maryland, USA Status: Offline Points: 1751 |
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[kevo:Ok, just read over at TTDaily that 'as of Sept. 1, 2018', Boll uses O5 Hard on FH and 05 of BH. Question answered. I should be a PI... ]
Ah ha! We are making progress! Very good.
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Tenergy: Two weeks of heaven, followed by three months of excellence, then, a nice rubber.
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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Something like a 16+ carbon hydrocarbon molecule oil (speeglue component is hexane or heptane a larger molecule that must be oily and do the same trick)that shouldnt be in the sponge I bet the guy from australia who make his own booster must know this is roughly the component of a booster There is a simple way to test that booster is in the tenergy sponge but people dont take seriously what I wrote and Edited by mykonos96 - 09/23/2018 at 11:17pm |
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haggisv
Forum Moderator Dark Knight Joined: 06/28/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 5110 |
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Sounds like the Marketing Machine in full motion...just as the new rubber is about to be released to the public, sponsored players are changing to it. That doesn't mean it's not true of course.
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chop4ever
Silver Member Joined: 08/10/2012 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 812 |
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Thanks to mention me here! The secrete of Tenergy is not only in sponge, but the topsheet, which not many rubber manufacturer has paid the attention to. |
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There is no real "pro", "prov" or "NT" H3 in the market.
Falco is not a booster |
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taczkid
Super Member Joined: 05/19/2016 Location: ILLINOIS Status: Offline Points: 487 |
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Not sure why Butterfly is being ..... but they just changed the release date to November 1!!!
Seriously they need to get their S..t straight, the release new Rubber and they cant even get their date correct on the first try? Now this is a joke. I just feel sorry for those who pre-ordered being excited to try the rubber next week, but thanks to ur favorite brand Butterfly they found yet another way (besides expensive prices) to get a lot of players upset Great job Butterfly. Next time you want to release something in Novemeber just say it on the first ADD (to be released in November, don't lie to customer or post false advertisement)! Other brands vs Butterfly Other: New rubber ____ is coming out on December 1st with a price of 59.99$, Butterfly-New Tenerfy 05 PRO is coming out on December 1st with a price tag of 79.99.... after one week, the actual available date will be March 1st 2019 and we misprinted the price of 79.99 the actual price is 179.99 $<-- Enjoy it customers. |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Seriously, you are all up in arms because the pushed the official release date out by a month?
So, you will get your sheets a month later. How is that going to meaningfully effect your life? As far as the price goes, prior to this I had to pay $100 per sheet to get these bootlegged out of some pro's bag. $80 that Butterfly Online wants is a bargain. I pre-ordered two sheets and if it is similar to the ones I have been playing with on the FH, I'll have it on both sides. At my current practice rate, these will last me at least 3-4 months. Maybe more. MX-S was lasting about 2-3 months. Big Dipper was nice, but lasted about 6 weeks. Various DHS rubbers lasted anywhere between two weeks and 8 weeks, but had to be tuned every two weeks, which I dislike immensely. If I spend $160 every four months on two T05Hs and that gets rid of the hassle involved in tuning them, it is totally worth it. It is probably the same amount of money I spend on gas driving two and from the club for practicing. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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benfb
Platinum Member Joined: 10/10/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2709 |
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+100 I don't understand why people online have to be so whiny. Delays in release dates are very, very common. It can relate to last minute manufacturing tweaks, or changes in the shipping route (since they are being shipped via ship), or plans to tie in with a particular marketing promotion that isn't ready yet. This happens across all industries and products and I guarantee it's happening to you all the time in your non-table tennis life. So why dump on Butterfly for this tiny issue?
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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If you wanted to make sure that people would not take you seriously this post was a great way to do it.
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pgpg
Gold Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1306 |
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I was going to write something similar in response to the post by 'taczkid', but then I figured there is a decent chance that it was posted by a kid indeed, which might explain rather exaggerated reaction to delayed launch date of TT rubber. Kids and their obsession with instant gratification these days! Now, get off my lawn.
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USATT: ~1810
Butterfly Defense Alpha ST - H3 Neo - Cloud&Fog OX |
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tom
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2013 Location: canada Status: Offline Points: 3016 |
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"As far as the price goes, prior to this I had to pay $100 per sheet to get these bootlegged out of some pro's bag."
Koshkin, as the release date is pushed back and therefore some will the reviews, do you care to list some differences between your $100 sheets and the regular 05?
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mykonos96
Gold Member Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1950 |
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This is not supreme court for giving proof . I would try to post more about it but I dont feel like there s a good reason Edited by mykonos96 - 09/24/2018 at 3:15pm |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Honestly, it is pretty close to what T05 was when it first came out. The first T05 I saw had a distinctly harder feel, but that all changed about 6 months into it. The harder sponge sheet I am using now on the FH seems to have the same exact topsheet as a regular T05, but the sponge is notably harder. If regular T05 is 36deg on Butterfly's scale, the one I am using is probably in the 40-42deg range. The sponge is still fairly springy, so it is easy to make spin and it is pretty fast. It is a little less springy on soft contact, so pushing is easier. Spin on loops of all sorts is excellent if you can brush the ball. In that regard, it is a little more linear than regular T05, but not drastically different. It works about the same for me on slow loops, but I have better feedback and control on big loops. The biggest difference is with counterlooping and over the table active blocking. My passive blocks stink and since I play with a soft blade, I just try to cover the ball a little, so I can re-direct it with a little spin. The hard sponge gives me really good feedback for that shot. Jut better feel. With counterlooping, off the table, it is not drastically different from regular 05. Over the table, it is more confidence inspiring for me. It is really amazing in how it deals with incoming spin. I can basically ignore what's on it and focus on getting proper contact. It completely overpowers what is coming in and sends the ball back over the net low and super spinny with a correspondingly low bounce on the other side of the table. Opening against underspin is generally similar to regular T05 as well. Arguably the biggest difference is with serves. I have a very hard time keeping the serve short or even half-long with regular T05. With the hard sponge version, half-long serves that either barely clear the table or have a second bounce right on the white line are pretty controllable. I do not have much to say about smashing, since I do not smash on the FH very much and when I do, I flip the racket to T25 I have on the BH. I have only been able to get these in red, so I can not comment on how the black sheet behaves. When I get the new T05 Hard, I will look at both colors (I pre-ordered two sheets) and will also try it on the BH, so I will have more to say about how it punches and loops over the table. My game is generally very uncomplicated: I have a good serve and a very heavy opener off of both sides. My rallying skills are not great, so I strive to finish the point on the 4th or 5th ball. Either with a BH punch or FH powerloop. On service returns, I drop or push the the FH. With the BH, I can do pretty much anything I want (drop, push, loop, chiquita, etc), so all the people I normally play with try to make sure I get to hit as few backhands as possible in a match. ILya
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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05 |
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