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Pink Rubber on Table Tennis Rackets - Yes or No?

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BH-Man View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 5:33pm
SW...

You cannot imagine to increased cost of inventory to stock 6 different colors of 4 different thicknesses of ONE rubber... for pretty much the same long term sales... and worry about selling all inventory and do it all over as new rubbers come out all the time if you stock more than one brand.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 6:45pm
shoen_wong thinks that it is a bonanza for the dealers.
BH-Man thinks that it is hell for the dealers.
I agree with BH-Man.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 7:19pm
Let's go to the simple math for stocking just 10 rubbers with a stock quantity of 10 per variant.

Before:

10 Rubbers X 3 thickness x 2 colors x stock of 10 = 600 rubbers overall

600 x $25-$60 a rubber = $15,000-$36,000 for rubbers alone

After:
Now that there are going to be 3-6 more colors available that means 3x to 6x additional cost to stock rubbers.

3x -6x times $15,000 - $36,000 means re-seller has to stock another $45,000 - $216,000 worth of rubbers just to ensure re-seller has 10 of each rubber, color, and sponge thickness variant (assuming only 3 thicknesses)...

So reseller investment on inventory went from $15,000 - $36,000 smooth up to needing to invest $60,000 to $252,000 to keep a SMALL stock... There are only 2 resellers in USA capable of absorbing this additional investment without borrowing... and borrowing for a small reseller where the sales will not be there is an unacceptable risk.

Reseller is NOT in mid or long term going to sell a significantly larger number of rubbers overall if no underlying business situation improves...

So reseller is now forced to invest an unrealistically high amount of money in inventory for a small return.

So now reseller must also face risk of not being able to sell their stock of rubbers before new rubbers come out... and new rubbers come out more often than before...

So now resellers are under a lot more financial pressure to make the same sales.

So basically the cost of entry to business, the cost of staying in business, and the financial risk go way up, just because ITTF wanted to pimp new colors for rubbers. This should have come from the business side (manufacturers/resellers) instead of ITTF.

This move is going to put some resellers out of business or greatly reduce their business. The only way to cope with cost of inventory (given all other conditions constant) is to reduce inventory qty per rubber, color, and variant.

That means a small reseller will lose sales there is lag between sell out of stock and re-stock... or increased per unit costs since reseller would make smaller orders, get less buying leverage, and increased per unit cost due to shipping.

It think this move by ITTF sucks for a lot of reasons I just quantified in detail without my usual sarcasm.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 7:25pm
The manufacturers also have similar risks, but on a much larger scale.

- What if sales of a certain color suck?

- What if the maker cannot sell wholesale the stuff they made before new version of rubber?

- What if maker goes ahead and makes the rubber, but resellers are too hesitant to order?

- Maker cannot make a small batch of 100 rubbers with any price efficiency, so they are under pressure to perform.

- ESN is not gunna go for small batch - they demand you go big volume. Many makers are already stretched and leveraged with loans to make business, the new colors are now adding financial pressure on makers just to stay in business. - Some makers may not stay in the game.. or some makers are going to lose sales to makers who can absorb the higher costs/risks of business who decide to make all the colors

- This is going to force makers to have a lower margin (margins at maker level are already thin tight) or it is going to make prices per rubber higher where the maker was not intending to raise prices
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 7:51pm
Responding to BH-Man

My dad used to own a store a while ago. We stayed in business for more than a decade. In short it's about supply and demand. I know....shocking! You do not have to stock every item equally. You get more of the items that sell out the fastest. For items that you have no idea how it's going to sell you buy an initial small stock of it and see what happens.
 It is the owners themselves who have a good intuition of what will sell and what might be a risk. Today with the help of the internet it is possible to gauge the popularity of certain items. There will always be a risk. But you balance the risk by buying more of what is sure to sell. Theres always  certain items you can count on.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote skip3119 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 8:36pm
For inventory modelling you need historical data.  Initially neither rubber makers nor re-sellers know what colored rubbers sell and what do not.  It will take time for them to find out.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hangdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 11:24pm
Certainly it presents more of a production and inventory headache. But if it’s only 2 new colours, then in each rubber:

1) You’re going to sell the same number of the compulsory black colour.

2) You’re probably still going to sell mostly red for the other side.

If manufacturers and distributors stipulate large minimum order quantities per colour/thickness, then smaller retailers will be reluctant to try green or orchid, at least unless an obvious market preference develops, and even then they won’t want to stock less popular thicknesses.

I think you’re also going to see a fair bit of people changing rubbers for the hell of it, because they want the new colours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/27/2019 at 11:37pm
Manufacturers and distributors stipulating order quantities?!??

Sorry, count me as skeptical of this. Not knowing how business are run in other countries I would have ask if this is remotely how bussiness is run in those other countries? Maybe in some countries but I cant see how a manufacturer is going to demand minimum quantities in each order. Perhaps there are other bussiness models I'm not aware of. Let's hear from bussiness owners shall we.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BruceShwnoswicz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 6:45am
Originally posted by Fulanodetal Fulanodetal wrote:

Manufacturers and distributors stipulating order quantities?!??

FDT

I am just a casual player and usually do not join forums. .
BH Man makes some very good points.But i have to agree with Fulanodetal on this

Limiting rubber colors is like saying all cars made in Canada should  only be red or black, as if there is not already enough price-fixing & collusion (both very illegal)  among car dealers / manufacturers etc. In a free market economy, yes there are serious problems of inventory management.  A small car dealer has to compete with large franchises and this is reality in any business. This is why modern business models talk about JIT (Just in time) inventory management, which are all of course impractical for small or even medium sized businesses, but that does not justify large dealers buying of the controlling organization, I assume it is the ITTF here ? I am not sure    

In communist countries or dictatorships, disguised as "socialists" and socialists disguised both as communists and capitalists as need suits them LOL, the political leaders can dictate what color cars or anything else be.   

So overall in the long run a free market economy benefits all, though it is of course far from a perfect system but is best available.


Edited by BruceShwnoswicz - 12/28/2019 at 6:47am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hangdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 9:15am
Minimum order quantities (MOQs) from manufacturers are extremely common. Unless they are shipping sample quantities, manufacturers will typically make distributors buy per carton or some other packaged multiple. Now, maybe a distributor won’t set a MOQ for a retailer. But some distributors probably would, for some items.

Edited by hangdog - 12/28/2019 at 9:16am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BruceShwnoswicz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 11:24am
Please help me understand a few things.

1. First of all, why does one side of racket has to be black. I was told that Para players cannot see other colors. But that does not seem fair because wouldn't para players have trouble with the other side rubber (which won't be black) ?  Why should non-para players suffer because para players cannot see in regular events ? Why can't para players have just black one side and another color that is best for them for other side but only in para events ? Aren't para players competing on an equal basis in regular events ? Wouldn't they not want to be treated as equals or would they ask for special privileges in regular events ?  This also brings up the ethics of serving really short and wide to a para player in a regular event. There are many other do's and don't etiquette I would like to understand about playing against a para player in a regular event.  

2. Even before that I was told that, in tournaments now, one side MUST be red and other black. I was told I cannot have both black or both red. That makes no sense to me at all.  Please explain
Sorry if I sound stupid about this as I do not know the full story and history behind this rule & I don't understand rubber selection completely.   I remember when I was young I used to play with rackets of all colors and I thought rubbers had to be of same color and cannot be different. Am I wrong ?  when did this rule change take place ? Now it looks like we have gone not full circle but 180 degrees after many years .



Edited by BruceShwnoswicz - 12/28/2019 at 11:26am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fulanodetal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 1:18pm
Originally posted by hangdog hangdog wrote:

Minimum order quantities (MOQs) from manufacturers are extremely common. Unless they are shipping sample quantities, manufacturers will typically make distributors buy per carton or some other packaged multiple. Now, maybe a distributor won’t set a MOQ for a retailer. But some distributors probably would, for some items.

Thanks hangdog. I can imagine boxes of 5 or 10 or by dozens. That would  make sense. But the minimum would not be in multiple of hundreds. 

About 10 years ago Fender made a replica of Eddie Van Halen's "frankenstrat" guitar. It was an exact copy of Eddie's famous guitar. Which took many many hours to get exact. To the point where the final selling price was a whopping 25 thousand dollars. Yes, $25 K for a guitar. A local store had 2 of them. After a couple of years they were no longer on display so I asked one of the guys at the store about it. They just shipped them back to the manufacturer. I guess there are not that many guitar collectors out there willing to part with a measley 25k for a guitar. So I suppose that this would be a different bussiness model. I wonder about luxury car dealers as well. Some of those Ferraris are on display for several months. 

In any case, if enough ppl ask about a certain item I would invest a minimum amount and see how it sells. Some items will not sell out. That's just how it is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote darucla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 6:37pm
I don't expect that many rubbers will be available in all colours.  Most current rubbers will probably stay the same, with new ones introduced in maybe another colour for whatever reason.  But who cares really enough to demand that their favourite current red rubber be available in green? Or Orchid (dumb name for a colour)?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hangdog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 6:42pm
Yeah, I think many of us expected a more dynamic and unrestricted colour palette instead of the two new permitted ho-hum colours.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 9:40pm
All the Jokers thinking it is a piece of cake to with new colors can open a TT reselling business themselves and learn firsthand what goes on.

Even if one can order a very small quantity, which a reseller CAN (big distributors not so) my example used a VERY SMALL stock quantity... my math shows that the dollar amount needed to be invested just to make sales of a fraction of that is a ROI (Return on investment) of single digit proportion.

Low single digit works only when there is high sales volume and inventory turnover... TT business in USA is way different than that. Resellers pretty much cannot sell majority of what they order before it is obsolete by new models... only a few articles and sell quickly enough.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dream1700 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 10:13pm
The best thing about the new colored rubbers is that one should be able get them for 20-30% off one year after launch.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/28/2019 at 10:24pm
Yup, then the mainsteam product sales suffer... the new colors are not going to a sustained 25% increase in sales year to year. All they are going to do is increase the costs and risks of manufacturers, large distributors, and resellers.

Guess who has the most risk?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JacekGM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 12/31/2019 at 7:45pm
I had to give myself a pinch... 
Anyone, what is this thread about?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1dennistt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/01/2020 at 1:23am
Oh, pretty colors. 

Uh, for me no not really, we had this before, it will become a mess over time.  But who knows it might get a few players interested?  What happens when no one has the color someone wants in stock and they have to make do with something else?  At least black will be safe (for now anyway).  Evil Smile 

I already have some old Feint that is pretty much pink lying around somewhere.  Maybe I need to look it up, and take it out for a spin when this goes live.  Would like to compare it to the new color pallet and see how it matches up.  LOL

My thoughts are that this will drive up prices yet again, since the costs to stock these new colors are going to raise the cost of doing business for everyone distributes and/or retails TT products.  This might help cover the cost of discounting last years colors when new colors invariably get approved.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote alexuganski Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/02/2020 at 4:37pm
I'm thinking, why will rubbers come out in a multitude of colors? They don't sell enough to warrant that.

Tenergy might be the only rubber that could come out in multiple colors and still make that worth it. Once everyone gets over the whole "red is best and professional" schtick, companies will start to offer rubbers in black and an off color. As is, you'll only be able to buy Stiga DNA Rx Pro Super Hard in black and green.

I see Igor mentioned only RED, GREEN, and ORCHID as approved off colors. This can't be the case going forward, right? I need more options. 😁
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2022 at 2:29pm
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

Yup, then the mainsteam product sales suffer... the new colors are not going to a sustained 25% increase in sales year to year. All they are going to do is increase the costs and risks of manufacturers, large distributors, and resellers.

Guess who has the most risk?


2022 and BH Man is right.

The take on from brands and resellers are minimal.
The take on from Pros is minimal

It is insane for models to come out in many colours.
Many brands has not release color rubbers and even if they do, it is limited colors.

Production nightmare, inventory nightmare,
and supply and demand is easy to say, but from production to retail shop is too many months

They should of focus on hobby bats first
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote igorponger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/21/2022 at 6:23pm
   MANY COLOURS -- MANY TROUBLES.

We have now got into mess. Let's view a possible scenario as follows
-- Some one wants to play with a penhold bat having BROWNISH paper sheet on the non-playing side. In response to umpire's call, he can easely contend that this is a true, statutory colour.
Umpire on duty will fall into the trap of uncertainity on such occasions, for statutory colours still undefined by the Rule.
This would be an absurdic situation difficult to resolve, if at all.

Edited by igorponger - 05/22/2022 at 12:36pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vanjr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2022 at 8:53am
How can anyone be against Bernadette Szocs playing with pink rubber? What is wrong with you people???
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mjamja Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2022 at 7:32pm
Originally posted by vanjr vanjr wrote:

How can anyone be against Bernadette Szocs playing with pink rubber? What is wrong with you people???

Bernadette uses a racket?  I never noticed.

Mark 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Eric Fountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/22/2022 at 10:33pm
Still waiting for the brands/rubbers I use to get some colors going. A couple guys here that use Grass D.Tecs both tried and and didn't like Green (and they claimed to try it long enough for proper break in) - certainly there are challenges with differences as even Black vs. Red show for many/most rubbers. Red is pretty boring though and I'm ready as soon as the rest of the manufacturers hurry up and take my money already.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2022 at 12:49am
Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

The manufacturers also have similar risks, but on a much larger scale.

- What if sales of a certain color suck?

- What if the maker cannot sell wholesale the stuff they made before new version of rubber?

- What if maker goes ahead and makes the rubber, but resellers are too hesitant to order?

- Maker cannot make a small batch of 100 rubbers with any price efficiency, so they are under pressure to perform.

- ESN is not gunna go for small batch - they demand you go big volume. Many makers are already stretched and leveraged with loans to make business, the new colors are now adding financial pressure on makers just to stay in business. - Some makers may not stay in the game.. or some makers are going to lose sales to makers who can absorb the higher costs/risks of business who decide to make all the colors

- This is going to force makers to have a lower margin (margins at maker level are already thin tight) or it is going to make prices per rubber higher where the maker was not intending to raise prices

That's a good point about making their red obsolete.   My guess is a lot of it will be put on premades or on sale
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2022 at 2:08am
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by BH-Man BH-Man wrote:

The manufacturers also have similar risks, but on a much larger scale.

- What if sales of a certain color suck?

- What if the maker cannot sell wholesale the stuff they made before new version of rubber?

- What if maker goes ahead and makes the rubber, but resellers are too hesitant to order?

- Maker cannot make a small batch of 100 rubbers with any price efficiency, so they are under pressure to perform.

- ESN is not gunna go for small batch - they demand you go big volume. Many makers are already stretched and leveraged with loans to make business, the new colors are now adding financial pressure on makers just to stay in business. - Some makers may not stay in the game.. or some makers are going to lose sales to makers who can absorb the higher costs/risks of business who decide to make all the colors

- This is going to force makers to have a lower margin (margins at maker level are already thin tight) or it is going to make prices per rubber higher where the maker was not intending to raise prices

That's a good point about making their red obsolete.   My guess is a lot of it will be put on premades or on sale


well, another correct and already seen - price is on the increase.
There will be new price hikes in June/July

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote YoAss Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2022 at 3:44am
"The surface of the covering material on a side of the blade, or of a side of the blade if it is left uncovered, shall be matt, black on one side, and of a bright colour clearly distinguishable from black and from the colour of the ball on the other."

Not all that unclear to me (although "matt", "black",  and "bright" and the tolerances for these are left undefined).

Still not liking it much, if only because ruling out the option to use the exact same rubber on both wings just seems stupid collateral damage.  Such undoubtedly good intentions pave the road to hell, and as a bard wrote, great crimes are committed by people whose conscience is clear.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DonnOlsen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2022 at 7:33am
A couple guys here that use Grass D.Tecs both tried and and didn't like Green (and they claimed to try it long enough for proper break in)

Wowzer!  There is now a break-in period for table tennis rubber COLOR!?  [How long does it take for pink?]

I don't think even Mjamja has reached that level of subtlety.

Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/23/2022 at 8:26am
Originally posted by DonnOlsen DonnOlsen wrote:

A couple guys here that use Grass D.Tecs both tried and and didn't like Green (and they claimed to try it long enough for proper break in)

Wowzer!  There is now a break-in period for table tennis rubber COLOR!?  [How long does it take for pink?]

I don't think even Mjamja has reached that level of subtlety.

Thanks.

I'm curious what color they had used?  Did they say if the pips felt softer or harder?

It's quite possible red might be harder and slicker than the other colors, but also black too if they're used to red


Edited by cole_ely - 05/23/2022 at 8:26am
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