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process to develop a good FH flick |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1012 |
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Posted: 02/15/2020 at 9:31pm |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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What do you think his rating is, he seems like a really good player....
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1012 |
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Edited by stiltt - 02/15/2020 at 8:09pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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Had to put this here:
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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I am not sure what most people call "using the wrist" is really using the *wrist* in any real sense of the word and as I got more advanced, I concluded that people were looking at the wrist and usually meant something else (more fingers, more pronation, more supination, more whip, more relaxation of the elbow to let the hand/fingers move in a plane different from the lower arm etc.). It is mostly a slight increase of the speed in swing plane. In this case of the flick, when they say use the wrist, I think what they really mean for the flick is to reduce the usage of the upper arm and the elbow in the swing and to pronate /supinate the arm back and forth slightly. I think the plastic ball is one of the reasons why this flick is less prominent - pure spin doesn't get you the same mileage and is easier to counter. So speed is the focus of the flick - better to push short and get an attacking chance than to spin flick and get the ball countered past you. This requires more elbow and possibly more upper arm, hence the broad swing focus.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Actually NL's video is really interesting about not using much wrist at all. In fact I have the same feeling for the loop too. I no longer believe in using the wrist actively -> the spin really comes from the pronation/supination + the forearm snap anyway on both BH and FH. The wrist just needs to be in a comfortable neutral position to provide stability for the stroke. I find stuff like excessive dropping of the wrist unnatural and uncomfortable, and doesn't provide all that much benefits anyway.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Nice NL thanks for posting
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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You're right, it's quite a bit more aggressive than the sideswipe, I think it's almost like a combination of the sideswipe and the flick.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Thanks racketforsale. When we were away training recently picked up alot about preperation, precision and a fair bit about flicks. Kinda stuck straightaway. Getting it into the match at a quality level mind under pressure is another thing. Cheers |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Excellent point. Though ML is just drilling, both player's early recognition of the length and height of the incoming ball and their preparation quickness are impressive. Their execution is so fast, it's almost as though they're waiting for the ball. |
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koshkin
Silver Member Joined: 10/30/2003 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 523 |
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Lots of good advice here. I will add that you should focus on adding a little spin and placement. Even if not very powerful, a flip is very effective when well placed. Power will come with practice. ILya
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yuri.saldon
Member Joined: 01/06/2017 Location: São Paulo Status: Offline Points: 21 |
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A tip that helped me a lot to develop fh flick was to contact the ball at lower side of the racket when it's against underspin do a down/up motion with a open angle.
Edited by yuri.saldon - 01/07/2020 at 8:27am |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14842 |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Skyline
Premier Member Joined: 07/01/2007 Status: Offline Points: 3864 |
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My teammate who is an expert at forehand flicking and trained several times in china with province team players told me the trick is to press with your index finger just before contact.
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Both flicks are really strong. Li Pings seems a bit flatter where Ma Longs seems a deeper brushed ball. Might just be lo ooking for differences which aren't there mind... The prep for each player prior and position, speed of racket head and control of movement is really precise.
Great videos. Many thanks 👍👍
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I know the sideswipe you're talking about, but I don't think that's what ML is executing there in the video. Look at how long the stroke path is, starting well behind the table, and the weight transfer. It's a lot more aggressive than the sideswipe. Check out the Li Ping video. He hits the same aggressive shot several times.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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The parallel shot is more like a sideswipe like the one that Waldner loves to use. I use it all the time but it's much more effective if you can combine it with a true flick....people get used to it and just loop it hard.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Always happy to share. I also came across a video of Calderano FH flipping absolute bullets in practice. I'll see if I can locate it.
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I see him hitting the ball at least 2 ways. For the parallel shot, he's kinda hit-spinning/carrying/lifting the ball with an open face and a relatively straight arm. For the diagonal shot, he snaps his forearm and "rolls over the ball."
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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Several from Li Ping playing practice points later in video: |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1012 |
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that's a fantastic video racquetsforsale, thanks. ma long does it so fluidly in a nonchalant way.
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Great video, never seen that before! I think Ma Long probably has the best FH flick in the world and it shows in his textbook technique. Some takeaways looking at the video. His elbow is usually quite close to the body during the start of the stroke. Sometimes I feel I probably start with too straight an arm. The other thing is that he seems to actively brush the ball - his flip ends up in the salute position similar to a loop - if it was just directly forward his end position would be quite different.
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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racquetsforsale
Gold Member Joined: 10/02/2010 Location: at the table Status: Offline Points: 1268 |
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I think power comes from extension and then flexion of the wrist, swinging the paddle parallel to the table prior to contact, or both. Spin comes from pronation or supination followed by pronation --- pivoting or wiping the paddle on a curved path similar to windshield wipers; hitting above the equator of the ball, or both. Practice these movements separately and then combine then. Then it's all about anticipation, footwork into the table, and timing through loads of practice. I suppose you can also just hit the ball too, but that's more risky and relies on good touch in adjusting the racket face, depending on the incoming spin and its intensity.
Edited by racquetsforsale - 01/06/2020 at 3:45pm |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Nice Writing Larry cracking
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larrytt
Silver Member Joined: 04/04/2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 971 |
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I had something else written as a Tip of the Week, but this seemed timely, so I wrote How to Develop a Nasty Forehand Flip in my blog today. It's also up as a Butterfly News Item. (I hope the moderators don't mind that I'm posting links here to my blog - but they are rather timely, and I haven't done it in a while. If they request, I'll delete the postings.)
-Larry Hodges
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Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
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ghostzen
Silver Member Joined: 08/15/2010 Location: UK Status: Offline Points: 881 |
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Some ideas which might help..
Get close the ball, step in so you have good control over your racket arm. Many players try to play the flick at distance and don't have the arm control and fine motor movement to execute the shot correctly. Like Stiltt says try and brush. Great advice/idea to think of a mini loop on this on. Don't try and hit the ball to hard to start get the mechanics right and movement first. It's a tricky shot btw and to add quality to the shot takes a fair while if it isn't nature. Cheers |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Hmm interesting perspective, I'll definitely keep this in mind when I practice!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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stiltt
Assistant Admin Joined: 07/15/2007 Location: Location Status: Offline Points: 1012 |
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I like to think of the flick as a mini loop over the table. Too often I struggled thinking that the flick is about hitting through with an open paddle (v. short underspin serves) and that was my wrong mindset. If I now consider the flick as a loop where I do not have enough space to do the back swing because the table is in the way, I can still throw the paddle down for a mini wrist based backswing; then I contact the ball after the wrist spring effect and the following wrist snap, the rubber grabs the ball in the same angle that a normal loop would.
People struggling with the flick often know how to loop because the flick is an intermediate to advanced stroke. So by considering the flick from the perspective of another stroke they know well, they can connect to it with less frustrations, they don't start from scratch. Edited by stiltt - 01/05/2020 at 7:56pm |
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blahness
Premier Member Joined: 10/18/2009 Location: Melbourne Status: Offline Points: 5443 |
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Think it's more about attacking loose balls on the FH short area. My go to is the chop smash now but would love to have a more solid FH flick to punish these kind of balls. Agree that directly flipping spinny serves is really difficult!
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Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
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