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Non sensitive inverted rubber for blocking

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    Posted: 05/03/2020 at 4:05am
After using short pips on both sides ( rakza po max fh and speedy soft dtecs 2.0 backhand)for a year I came to the conclusion that I want to switch back to inverted on one side. My backhand stroke is rather short and not so wristy when punching, so playing with inverted makes it easier to generate speed for me. Previously I have used tenergy 05 and 64 for 3.5 years with a small break of using rozena and bryce high speed for a few months. Since I got used to the Speedy Soft Dtecs recieving serves is so much easier and I don't want to lose this ability completely when switching back to inverted. FYi a few months ago I tried a tenergy like rubber on my  backhand and my lazy recieve game was absolutely crap as I could suddenly  feel the spin biting in my rubber again.

I'm looking for a rubber that's not so sensitive to incoming spin,easier to  recieve serves, would be suitable for punching and flat hitting with occasonal chiquita's flicks, chop blocks and kenta blocks.

My own idea's were, either a very soft tensor like F3 Big Slam, Energy XTra, or Rozena/Bryce HIghspeed or Goriki Kaisoku or lastly FastARC g1 Tenergy 05 Hard or Rasanter 53. ( all in thin sponge thickness 17.-1.9)

What do you guys think?


Edited by Skyline - 05/03/2020 at 4:06am
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pingpongpaddy View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 5:20am
i would suggest sticking with sp and try moristo sp max. study mima ito using this rubber to play all the shots you describe.
The reason is that inverted does not optimise a punching style but sp does. If you feel you lack speed study relaxing with your strokes and soft flexible grip
Good luck

Edited by pingpongpaddy - 05/03/2020 at 5:27am
inactive dotec carbokev

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FH moristo sp AX MAX

bh moristo sp ax max
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Skyline View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 7:25am
Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

i would suggest sticking with sp and try moristo sp max. study mima ito using this rubber to play all the shots you describe.
The reason is that inverted does not optimise a punching style but sp does. If you feel you lack speed study relaxing with your strokes and soft flexible grip
Good luck

Thanks for your suggestion pingpongpaddy. I especially like your suggestion of trying a max short pips on my backhand. Maybe it's the most sensible solution for me being used to the speed produced by tenergy 2.1.

 I did try the Nittaku Moristo SP in 1.8 thickness  being inspired by Mima ITO. I found it had a nice crisp feeling and ok speed. But it was a lot less disturbing then my speedy soft dtecs and also very inconsistent during blocks( maybe it's the vertical allignment or the thin sponge) it felt really weird, even though my regular speedy soft dtecs is really soft and quite thin aswell. 

Another factor is that my backhand stroke is with a locked wrist ( that way i just have most control over my blocks) this is kind of like the opposite of mima ito. With inverted this worked with a closed angle and pressing down. With short pips this work with opening the angle and pressing forward. 

I recently heard good things about Victas 101 being very disturbing and tricky. Maybe that's a good idea in max thickness?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote achoomai Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 8:46am
I would try Gewo nanoflex series.
My feedback : http://www.mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=58844&PN=1#726094
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gnopgnipster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 9:30am
Gambler Reflectoid
Hardbat: Valor Champion/FH/BH-Valor Premier-OX

Regular:Valor Big Stick FH-Apollo II & BH-Globe 979 OX

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 9:46am
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

i would suggest sticking with sp and try moristo sp max. study mima ito using this rubber to play all the shots you describe.
The reason is that inverted does not optimise a punching style but sp does. If you feel you lack speed study relaxing with your strokes and soft flexible grip
Good luck


Thanks for your suggestion pingpongpaddy. I especially like your suggestion of trying a max short pips on my backhand. Maybe it's the most sensible solution for me being used to the speed produced by tenergy 2.1.

 I did try the Nittaku Moristo SP in 1.8 thickness  being inspired by Mima ITO. I found it had a nice crisp feeling and ok speed. But it was a lot less disturbing then my speedy soft dtecs and also very inconsistent during blocks( maybe it's the vertical allignment or the thin sponge) it felt really weird, even though my regular speedy soft dtecs is really soft and quite thin aswell. 

Another factor is that my backhand stroke is with a locked wrist ( that way i just have most control over my blocks) this is kind of like the opposite of mima ito. With inverted this worked with a closed angle and pressing down. With short pips this work with opening the angle and pressing forward. 

I recently heard good things about Victas 101 being very disturbing and tricky. Maybe that's a good idea in max thickness?

your wrist joint should be relaxed on bh counter punch adding a little topspin and taking the ball early. i dont know your level but i suggest think more of the words 'punch' and 'hit' rather than block. And dont bother with disturbing effects. leave that to yr opponents if they dont keep up with your speed. you should find a practice partner to develop yr counter
2 decent level players should be able to fast bh counter on one line 'forever.
i played sp for years and never tried to disturb opponent just play fast if player loop at you learn to punch through it
good luck
inactive dotec carbokev

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GeneralSpecific Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 9:56am
Originally posted by gnopgnipster gnopgnipster wrote:

Gambler Reflectoid


Reflectoid is no longer legal.

But to answer Skyline's question, if you want something fast, I think Stiga Mantra is a great choice, especially in 1.7mm
Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL
Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm
Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 11:02am
F3 Bigslam is very good for that. However it does not fit every blade. Hard carbon blades like Schlager or Primorac Carbon make an awful combination with it.
F3 BS works better with soft blades. With Hinoki single ply it is perfect in the BH.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 11:25am
Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

i would suggest sticking with sp and try moristo sp max. study mima ito using this rubber to play all the shots you describe.
The reason is that inverted does not optimise a punching style but sp does. If you feel you lack speed study relaxing with your strokes and soft flexible grip
Good luck


Thanks for your suggestion pingpongpaddy. I especially like your suggestion of trying a max short pips on my backhand. Maybe it's the most sensible solution for me being used to the speed produced by tenergy 2.1.

 I did try the Nittaku Moristo SP in 1.8 thickness  being inspired by Mima ITO. I found it had a nice crisp feeling and ok speed. But it was a lot less disturbing then my speedy soft dtecs and also very inconsistent during blocks( maybe it's the vertical allignment or the thin sponge) it felt really weird, even though my regular speedy soft dtecs is really soft and quite thin aswell. 

Another factor is that my backhand stroke is with a locked wrist ( that way i just have most control over my blocks) this is kind of like the opposite of mima ito. With inverted this worked with a closed angle and pressing down. With short pips this work with opening the angle and pressing forward. 

I recently heard good things about Victas 101 being very disturbing and tricky. Maybe that's a good idea in max thickness?

your wrist joint should be relaxed on bh counter punch adding a little topspin and taking the ball early. i dont know your level but i suggest think more of the words 'punch' and 'hit' rather than block. And dont bother with disturbing effects. leave that to yr opponents if they dont keep up with your speed. you should find a practice partner to develop yr counter
2 decent level players should be able to fast bh counter on one line 'forever.
i played sp for years and never tried to disturb opponent just play fast if player loop at you learn to punch through it
good luck

My level is rather advanced, it's the level where being faster than the opponent doesn't really apply any more since every body has really fast and quick reflexes. When I trained full time I could play an "unorthodox" fast counter game with incredible accuracy mixed with a strong opening loop with double inverted. For my backhand strokes I relied heavily on the catapult of my rubbers always have also the reason i never developed a great punch.

When i started to train less my reflexes on counters became slower and my loop worse, resulting in too much passive play. I then switched to short pips which made my play more dangerous and disturbing without needing to be overly fast in my  reflexes( a slower more disturbing pip on backhand definitely helped).

My point being for a fast counter game with pure speed I might aswell go back to double inverted since blocking is so much easier with that stuff.

 I was looking to play a hybrid style where i can use the fast counters from an inverted rubber with a more disturbing counter from a short pip. By regularly twiddling I was hoping to confuse opponents.Spin on serves and first opening loop for recieve would be an advantage here

However you gave me the sensible idea that a fast disturbing counter with a short pip might also work. Even mima ito besides her blistering speed and accuracy relies on messing her opponent up with weird balls. So pure speed is not the only thing that short pips offer imho.
I will try this first.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 11:30am
Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

F3 Bigslam is very good for that. However it does not fit every blade. Hard carbon blades like Schlager or Primorac Carbon make an awful combination with it.
F3 BS works better with soft blades. With Hinoki single ply it is perfect in the BH.

Yes ttnewbie that's also my own experience. Somehow my prefence for i nverted rubbers with these blades has always been medium to hard sponge.Do single hinoki ply blades offer enough control for the shortgame? I tried a balsa hinoki carbon 10mm thick amazing for smashing and blocking but way too much catapult for a short serve or push. Is hinoki 1 ply different?


Edited by Skyline - 05/03/2020 at 11:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skyline Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 11:31am
Originally posted by GeneralSpecific GeneralSpecific wrote:

Originally posted by gnopgnipster gnopgnipster wrote:

Gambler Reflectoid


Reflectoid is no longer legal.

But to answer Skyline's question, if you want something fast, I think Stiga Mantra is a great choice, especially in 1.7mm

Thanks man I have the Mantra H 1.9 on other blade. I agree great rubber for blocking and punching.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TT newbie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 12:31pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by TT newbie TT newbie wrote:

F3 Bigslam is very good for that. However it does not fit every blade. Hard carbon blades like Schlager or Primorac Carbon make an awful combination with it.
F3 BS works better with soft blades. With Hinoki single ply it is perfect in the BH.

Yes ttnewbie that's also my own experience. Somehow my prefence for i nverted rubbers with these blades has always been medium to hard sponge.Do single hinoki ply blades offer enough control for the shortgame? I tried a balsa hinoki carbon 10mm thick amazing for smashing and blocking but way too much catapult for a short serve or push. Is hinoki 1 ply different?
I say Hinoki single ply (with 2 inverted rubbers) is not the best option for short game, specially short return. 
But when I played with it I tried to maximize its best feature, the catapult effect. So, my serves always went long and fast, and I always tried to receive with chiquita to engage a loop game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pingpongpaddy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 11:21pm
hinoki 1 ply is generally thought to be one of the best fast blades providing both great power on the drive with very good feeling in the short game.
in fact imho its only drawbacks are breakability and expense, especially as its usual to buy them in pairs if you are playing tournaments.
As i am a pensioner now i use yin-he galaxy ayous wood 1 ply as a ver cheap alternative (25-30 euros)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote megaboyd Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2020 at 11:42pm
I think the dignics series is better than Tenergy 05 Hard for this type of shot. Also the best rubber in the Joola line up would be XPlode. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tinykin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2020 at 7:15am
Originally posted by pingpongpaddy pingpongpaddy wrote:

hinoki 1 ply is generally thought to be one of the best fast blades providing both great power on the drive with very good feeling in the short game.
in fact imho its only drawbacks are breakability and expense, especially as its usual to buy them in pairs if you are playing tournaments.
As i am a pensioner now i use yin-he galaxy ayous wood 1 ply as a ver cheap alternative (25-30 euros)


I have said before on this forum that I had a 1-ply which split. Recently I dug it up and realised that it was not a Hinoki 1-ply but an experimental wood 1-ply.
However, I have had several multi-ply blades that have broken or blades where the top ply separated.

Yes, the price has become ridiculous on the Darker blades. I am sure that I bought my first Speed90 for less than £100 within the last 5years. Its equivalent today, Darker Imperial, is £300.
Blade:
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Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

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