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Friendly Match US1260 vs US1537

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    Posted: 11/15/2011 at 11:08pm

After about 15 or 20 friendly matches in the last two years, (and maybe 2 wins) I'm think I am starting to get the hang of an opponent who has a much more diverse set of "tools" at his disposal than I am used to playing against.

Last night I split matches (best of 3, winning 2-1 and losing 1-2).

This is the match that I lost

While most of the players at my lowly level have 1 or 2 things that they can do reasonably well (and if they are lucky, maybe one thing that stands out), perhaps several things that they are "ok" at, they have plenty of missing fundamentals. From what I can see I this also is true of the majority of folks that I play in the 1400-1600 range as well. The strengths may be stronger, and/or there may be fewer holes in their games, but they are all very "beatable", at least in friendly matches, because it's possible to isolate their weaknesses or deny them opportunities to use their strengths.

However, this particular US1500+ opponent has a boatload of things that he does reasonably well (push, chop, lob, loop against underspin) and a solid BH service receive (very few errors over two matches) and quite a bit of serve variation.

To see more of my opponents play style (vs a pips out pick hitter):
CLICK HERE (fixed)

And as a slowly reforming 3rd ball/push-pick hitter myself, it's interesting to see what sort of points I can win against this lobby/defensive style; and how to make him uncomfortable/confused.

As a side note: I'd like to figure out how to receive serve the way he does. He uses an inverted BH push against almost every serve to his BH, and is able to even push my top-side serves low and safe. His push motion is like the bottom half of a C, and acts like a push-block/drop shot against topspin and also returns underspin well with virtually the same motion.

And because of his chop and lob, he's one of the few opponents who will actually set me up to start looping; most players at and above my level try and prevent me from using my FH loop or drive because they lack the blocking skills to return the ball consistently. In fact, Alan wants me to loop, so he can chop it back with heavy underspin, or lob it with heavier side top.

What I enjoy most about playing him is that I have time to move to be successful.

I already have a small checklist of things that were causing some errors/discomfort for me, but I'll be glad to take additional criticism.


Immediate things to fix - in no particular order:

1) elbow is coming up on followthrough
2) backswing needs to be more consistent (timing and size relative to incoming ball)
3) Recovery time needs to improve
4) stance needs to stay lower


What worked:
1) BH topspin is finally coming into matchplay. I was able to take control of points with it, sometimes hit winners.
2) FH loop got some use (this is rare in matchplay)
3) I could force him to attack and out of his comfort zone of defending (playing his weakness against my weakness, instead of my strength against his strength).


What I learned:
1) As long as I don't spend too much of the point inside the table, my backhand topspin can keep me in the point, even if I need to use sidespin to prevent counterattacks.
2) Quality service return is at least as important as service.
3) It's possible to goad some "control players" into taking risks and making errors (and turn their core strategy against them).

US1260.RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote melarimsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2011 at 11:11pm
Video________________________________ Wink
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jt99sf Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/15/2011 at 11:46pm
How does he do in receiving tomahawk serves? Fh & Bh?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dabookerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 2:54pm
It sounds like I have some of the same issues, so post the video soon.  :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 9:49pm
link posted. sorry for the delay.

no edits, just raw game footage.

i'll get highlights marked in the comment field to save time.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote melarimsa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 9:54pm
Nice video. You right about your negative points ...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 10:03pm
1. When pushes goes into net, should open racket more and push forward. 
2. bh loop against backspin, focus more on brushing the ball on the back of the ball with confidence, don't rely on rolling it back. 
3.try playing with shorts, not pants. Easier to move and focus on footwork.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 10:12pm
First thing I see within seconds that's a major flaw in your game is running backwards away from the ball, a lot of players stuck on a low level do that. Don't do that ever,  that's the first thing. Now I'll watch the rest. No wait.. your the guy up the far end right? discount that then

Edited by bluebucket - 11/16/2011 at 10:16pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote koshkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 10:25pm
Originally posted by icontek icontek wrote:


After about 15 or twenty friendly matches in the last two years, I'm think I am starting to get the hang of an opponent who has a much more diverse set of "tools" at his disposal than I am used to playing against. I think my total Win:Loss record against him (in best of 3 matches) is something like 3:17.

Last night I split matches (best of 3, winning 2-1 and losing 1-2).

This is the loss

I think this is because most of the players at my lowly level have 1 or 2 things that they can do reasonably well (and if they are lucky, maybe one thing that stands out), perhaps several things that they are "ok" at, and plenty of missing fundamentals. While I spend 60-70% of my practice matches against similar rated players, from what I can see I this also is true of the majority of folks that I play in the 1400-1600 range as well. The strengths may be stronger, and/or there may be fewer holes in their games, but they are all very "beatable", at least in friendly matches, because it's possible to isolate their weaknesses or deny them opportunities to use their strengths. At my level, I notice that 1700 players frequently have far less holes in their games, and it's impossible to win even fluke or friendly matches against them.

However, this particular US1500+ opponent has a whole boatload of things that he does reasonably well (push, chop, lob, loop against underspin) and a remarkable BH service receive (very few errors) and quite a bit of serve variation.

I'd like to figure out how to receive serve the way he does. He uses a push against almost every serve, and is able to even push my top side serves low and safe. His push motion is like the bottom half of a C, and acts like a push-block/drop shot against topspin and also returns underspin well with virtually the same motion. I think he varies the contact point during the push to achieve this.

As a slowly reforming 3rd ball/push-pick hitter, it's interesting to see what sort of points I can win against this style. In general, I think the earliest I was able to open was 4th/5th ball. However, I did get a few good reads against his serve, but against player this defensive, that didn't mean I would win the point outright...

And because of his chop and lob, he's one of the few opponents who will actually set me up to start looping; most players at and above my level try and prevent me from using my FH loop or drive because they lack the blocking skills to return the ball consistently.

What I enjoy most about playing him, is that I have to move to be successful. And because he frequently pushes to try and get me to start looping, I have plenty time.

I already have a small checklist of things that were causing some errors/discomfort for me, but I'll be glad to take additional criticism.

Immediate things to fix - in no particular order:

1) elbow is coming up on followthrough
2) backswing needs to be more consistent (timing and size relative to incoming ball)
3) Recovery time needs to improve
4) stance needs to stay lower

What worked:
1) BH topspin is finally coming into matchplay. I was able to take control of points with it, sometimes hit winners.
2) FH loop got some use (this is rare)
3) I pushed when I had to, and whenever I wasn't in a good position to open.
     I didn't get punished for it.

What I learned:
1) It's possible to goad some "control players" into taking risks and making errors (and turn their core strategy against them).
2) Quality service return is at least as important as service. Maybe moreso...

Some comments:
- your ready position is BH oriented.  I would change it to be neutral or slightly FH oriented
- you need to stay lower.
- when you have to push get your nose as close to the ball as possible.  The further from yourself the hand use when you push the less precision you have
- spin the ball.  Use spin to change bounce and placement
- move.  Specifically, move both feet.  When moving to the right, start with the left foot.  When moving to the left, start with the right foot.
- relax your grip.  Your wrist is too stiff.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 10:26pm
Ok if you are the guy up the far end what I think you are. Then that lifted backhand shot you do sometimes, I don't like that, you could hit a much faster topspin over the top of the ball on all those which would be more effective. Also although you are clearly a backhand orientated player, the action you have on your forehand and the mount of balls that are going long I think you would play considerably better with Hurricane 2 at this stage, you might change your stroke to suit the H3 later but right now naturally it's going to suit a lower rubber, that would also help you learn to get some more arm speed. Instead of being worried about the ball going long (you never want to have to worry about that) you would only have to worry about it going in the net and that only improves your stroke rather than ruin it, that's something to think about. Otherwise I mean, two weeks coaching and you would easily beat the guy you are playing, nothing really wrong for your level, you just want some  more agression really, every time he's giving you a lob that should be point over either on speed or the angle, take your pick just don't go slow down the middle of the table like you are now

Edited by bluebucket - 11/16/2011 at 10:27pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 10:55pm
Sorry, yeah, I'm the guy in the red.

I don't play TT in White or Orange shirts :)

I'll respond more to technique and tactics feedback as it accumulates and trending starts to develop.

I don't think I am ready to play H2; brief stints with it were pretty unforgiving.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/16/2011 at 11:51pm
Unforgiving is really what you need though to teach you a stronger stroke. When I'm teaching someone to loop well against backspin I use multiball and feed them 100, 200, 400 balls whatever it takes with heavy backspin on them until they learn what kind of stroke you need to make the shot, it only takes a few minutes to learn the basics of any shots when you are hitting that many balls. I'd highly recommend you buy a couple hundred balls and make a ball picker uper. That is the fastest way anyone can improve. I wish I could have a few training sessions with you because I think it would be quite easy to make big gains.

The main thing when the guy lobs, you need to hit it to an area on the table where he isn't, preferably to the extremist angle away from where ever is bat is. Then you can go again straight into his body and once he's planted there go the extreme other side. Things like this but in this guys case since he's a slow guy you should be able to hit straight past him on that first ball without any problem.

Maybe someone could download the movie and re upload it with captions on what would have been the preferable shot to make and where to put the next ball. Oh yeah again don't hit those nothing balls from the backhand where you just lift the ball over the net, both of you are doing them and it's not a shot you ever see a stronger play use. From that exact same spot you can flip, heavy chop or low and short push all of which are 10 times more effective, some of the topspin play from your backhand is quite good so you may as well use it whenever you can and develop that some more.

I'll also add there are things like the loop he hits at 5:20 that you sighted as soon as he hit it yet grabed the ball rather than hitting a backhand.... why? you had all the time in the world to hop over there and cream on off the backhand or at least make a positive block down the line, not to mention you could have ripped the serve straight back at him off the first ball, those are the kind of shots you need to at least attempt even if most of them miss at first. Attempt enough of them and sooner or later most of them will go on and you'll be a 2000 point player before you knew what was happening


Edited by bluebucket - 11/17/2011 at 12:00am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote davidz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 12:41am
Originally posted by bluebucket bluebucket wrote:

Unforgiving is really what you need though to teach you a stronger stroke. When I'm teaching someone to loop well against backspin I use multiball and feed them 100, 200, 400 balls whatever it takes with heavy backspin on them until they learn what kind of stroke you need to make the shot, it only takes a few minutes to learn the basics of any shots when you are hitting that many balls. I'd highly recommend you buy a couple hundred balls and make a ball picker uper. That is the fastest way anyone can improve. I wish I could have a few training sessions with you because I think it would be quite easy to make big gains.
 
 
I strongly agree with this.  Do not worry about style and other minor stuff. It is more important to be very good at a few basic skills, such as push, block and loop. If any single skill reaches high level (e.g., 1700, or 2000), you can improve your game greately. 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Vassily Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 12:42am
For service receive, you might want to stand back a bit, then just before they serve you can move forward a little to get your feet moving, which helps set the tone and get the feet moving for the rest of the point. At the moment, you are standing quite "heavy" with feet concreted to the ground in quite a wide stance, and then not really moving much.

Wider stances are more stable, but can be a bit harder to move around depending on leg strength.

You did some quite hard BHs and quite soft FHs. Maybe the other way around is better. I get the feeling your BHs are kinda "hail mary", you dont really know if its going to go on or not. Just hit them softer and guide them forward more rather than snatch at them. Same on FHs, go forward more and trust the topspin to put the ball onto the table. If you overshoot the table, convert more of the speed to spin, rather than hitting softer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote assiduous Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 1:01am
That opponent of yours is exactly what you need to improve. He is like a punching bag. Everything he returns screams SMACK ME, SMACK ME SO HARD THAT YOU CRACK THE BALL!

You need to get a couple of lessons from a coach just to show you the strokes. Then you practice them yourself. But right now your strokes are very far from the real thing. It's not the problem that you miss with these shots. Even if you make them in, these are all the wrong shots so don't try to make them consistent.

Your FH needs to losen, open the arm in the elbow so its almost straight, that swing it around your shoulder, and swing from the waist as well. Right now u don't move anything other than your forearm forward. 

Your BH is similar. You did make a couple of lose lobbish BH loops, but more often than not it was just a flat hit forward on a ball that had no chance clearing the net without topspin. 

I gota do a video of myself these days too. I feel I've been criticizing people a lot with my miserable 1500, and need to give them a chance to rip me apart : )
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote loop+loop Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 2:26am
Strangely I don't hear any clicking sound from your shots. Your partner inclusive. Practice more until you feel the ball with click sounds.
For your BH, bend your body more and give a longer stroke.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 2:47am
He's using H3 it doesn't click no matter how hard you hit it unless it's tuned/glued. He's not hitting the ball hard enough for a tensor to click either but that's not a real problem, well it's part of the problem but the main thing is making ending the point your goal rather than just thinking about keeping the ball in play.

Improving to 1700us from where you are doesn't have to be a big deal or a big change, you could just learn to chop well and chop this guy off 11-0 if you wanted or block him off even. But the better goal is to develop an allround game where you can do anything you might need to do, best way to do that is go for everything that presents itself + lots of multiball to condition your muscles and mind into hitting those shots with accuracy. Again buy those balls ! and lots of them (seriously do that)


Edited by bluebucket - 11/17/2011 at 2:53am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote popperlocker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 8:10am
Originally posted by assiduous assiduous wrote:

That opponent of yours is exactly what you need to improve. He is like a punching bag. Everything he returns screams SMACK ME, SMACK ME SO HARD THAT YOU CRACK THE BALL!

You need to get a couple of lessons from a coach just to show you the strokes. Then you practice them yourself. But right now your strokes are very far from the real thing. It's not the problem that you miss with these shots. Even if you make them in, these are all the wrong shots so don't try to make them consistent.

Your FH needs to losen, open the arm in the elbow so its almost straight, that swing it around your shoulder, and swing from the waist as well. Right now u don't move anything other than your forearm forward. 

Your BH is similar. You did make a couple of lose lobbish BH loops, but more often than not it was just a flat hit forward on a ball that had no chance clearing the net without topspin. 

I gota do a video of myself these days too. I feel I've been criticizing people a lot with my miserable 1500, and need to give them a chance to rip me apart : )

Well said. A great practice opponent to constantly loop against. It seems you try to hit 2 consecutive loops, then you push. Try looping 10 in a row with him. Slow looping is actually very easy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cS7yyQ4t6eI    2:45 
watch this girls technique, her blade angle, contact, body. You can do the same with your backhand, just need different footwork. Slow looping is the key to the power loop. Once you are able to slow loop 10 in a row with him, power looping will come much easier. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 9:03am
icontek, the biggest problem I see isn't with your technique per se, but your attitude.  Your rallies with this guy are already way too long, especially for your levels.  This means that neither of you is aggressive enough, instead choosing to stick with shots that you're already comfortable with.  What you need to start doing is attempting more shots that you're NOT comfortable with, and stop caring about winning the game.  I saw you hit some nice forehands against him, you need to keep doing that instead of playing slow attacks or even blocks against his lobs and high blocks.

I'd recommend you focusing on that, the aggressiveness, first.  I'm an improving player like you(you seem a good level above your latest rating), so I know that making changes takes a lot of focus, so don't try to improve too many things at once.  Focus on at MOST 2 things at a time, such as more aggressive FH right now.  His returns are often slow, so you might be able to squeeze in a second thing, like a BH loop(spin first, speed after you can spin loop consistently).  I'm trying to improve footwork, recovery, and get a longer backswing myself, and I'm finding it very difficult to remember all three things in game situation. So, you should start by just focusing on one thing while you're playing:  every ball that comes at you high, loop it back with some aggression.  You'll do worse than you usually do to start, but that's the price to pay for a faster improvement.  With your dedication, you'll be beating that guy regularly in no time at all!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mhnh007 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 10:14am
Whoa! Nice video.  I see that you have completely revamped your game from close to the table pushing to control the rally from further away.  It takes a lot of dedication to do so, so congratulation to you.  You do look more comfortable and relax in your game now compare to before, and I like it.  Just note that now you play further from the table, which give you more time to react, but it will also give your opponent more time to react as well, so you need to add in some spin, or off the bounce quick return to surprise your opponent :).  I really like your control game, I think you are on the right track for improvement.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bluebucket Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 10:22am
dingyibvs has the exact right mental attitude to make it to 2000us asap, that's all you need. A willingness to live on the edge and take yourself to places you are not comfortable with. If you don't or can't flip serves then flip every serve you can get a bat on until it's second nature. If you can't hit hard loops then just force yourself to go to the limit every time until the speed limit resets higher. Push yourself to the edge :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hookumsnivy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 10:58am
I'm with dingyibvs on this one.  I think you're way too passive.  I only watched the first game, and I was surprised by the patience on both sides.  There were a ton of opportunities by you and your opponent to attack with authority that weren't taken.  It seemed like neither of you wanted to control the point.
In other words, it seemed like your goal was to not lose (by playing the safe, just keep it on the table, shots) instead of trying to win by controlling the points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 12:23pm
I only watched the first match, and there's no way you should have lost that match.  From what I can see, your opponent's strength is simply getting the ball back until you miss.  I don't think he did anything particularly well except that.  And while that could be a good strategy, he's not implementing it with very high quality shots. Those medium high sorta-loop lobs he was giving you were screaming, "smack me baby!"

I was very surprised at how many loose lobs he made (even when you weren't really pressuring him) that you didn't attack.  Sometimes you let them get low and just returned them with no aggression.   Sometime you blocked them with your backhand (????) straight down but with little pace.  You almost never (maybe never) creamed them.  Some of those should have been bounced to the ceiling. This is, now doubt, why he lobbed a lot to your backhand even when you weren't pressuring him.  Its a safe shot that you are not likely to attack.  Dude!  I work hard to get an opponent to give me something half that easy to attack - and he's just handing it to you...

As others have pointed out, you are backhand oriented.  I'm not a coach, but if I were coaching you I'd put all my initial effort into developing three forehand shots and teaching you to turn the corner on your backhand.  I wouldn't work on your backhand at all at this time. You are comfortable with it and it can take care of itself for now. Your forehand needs some TLC.  You need a good solid forehand counter, loop and smash and the desire/motivation to step around your backhand. My experience is that I only step around my backhand when I'm looking for the opportunity.  That's where the motivation comes in.  You gotta like that idea or you won't do it much.  With just a forehand smash and the willingness to step around your backhand, I think you beat this guy regularly.

Get low.  Develop a decent loop.  Get someone to work the Faulkenberg drill with you.  That's the basic training outline IMO.

Further notes:
1) I agree that this is a good player for you to work on your game with because what he gives you is an invite to use a forehand attack - something you need to work on.

2) This guy is a much better defender than attacker - at least based on watching that one short match.  He only won one point with an aggressive attack, and that was largely because he placed the ball very well on that shot.  He lost four points outright with aggressive attacks and made two decent attacks, but you returned them and he went defensive again.





Edited by wturber - 11/17/2011 at 12:43pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 12:33pm
I've got to say I like your composure in these games. Not letting yourself get distracted by ranting about your technique, nets/edges, talking to yourself in the first person i.e. ("would you hit the g*****n ball) and the like is, in my opinion, just as important as stroke development. Another positive is you seem to be able to give yourself time to get to, and hit the ball.

I agree strongly with the use of multiball for your training. You are going to need massive amounts of repetition to improve all your basic and advanced strokes. Not to mention your footwork. You can get more stroke repetition in 5 minutes of multibal than you can in a hour or more of normal practice/play. It is one of, if not the most effective use of your training time.

Example:
 I put in about 2-3 MB sessions a week. I usually do about 1k-2k loop strokes per session(most of this is footwork) I have been working mostly on my loop stroke for the past 2-1/2 months. That's approximately 30k strokes. That is probably more than most people do in a year of normal play(usatt 1300-1500). Now imagine, a CNT player probably does that in week.  Just for that one stroke. not to mention competition. Good quality repetition is king if you want get basic strokes down. 

With regard to being more aggressive. Imo the reason people are tentative is because they don't have the confidence in their attacking strokes. How do you get said confidence? Repetition. 


Edited by V-Griper - 11/27/2011 at 10:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pnachtwey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 12:37pm
I like the shots to the edge of the table that made your opponent move. If you followed that up with a shot to the other side I doubt your opponent could do more than watch the ball go by.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 1:56pm
Great feedback and thank you all for your time on this!

I went into this match exploring tactics; it's a good idea to watch the second video to see how much stronger my opponent plays when he is comfortable.
I posted a while back that I sometimes have difficulty getting into a practice mindset, and I think the rush of
winning the first match had me more focused on taking him out of his game and rhythm than actually practicing technique...

I don't mean to make excuses for my game, just to provide some context for why I was trying to lure him into attacking.

I am a horrible defender, but I wanted to see how my weakness posited with his weakness.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wturber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 2:24pm
The second "click here" link just takes us to this thread.   I have no idea where the second match is.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote icontek Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 7:03pm
Sorry!
Fixed link.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 7:06pm
I don't think you should be losing to either player.  Both are very non-threatening.  Neither attack when given the chance.  Don't bother to finish the shot even for popups.

I'm willing to bet a nice slow spinny loop will be enough to finish the point.  And in order to do this shot...you need to bend those knees.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejmaster Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11/17/2011 at 7:53pm
imo icontek i would suggest you going with a lp ox in the bh.
 
to progress and being more competitive.
 
in parallel can do falknb. and drills and all the advice in this thread.
 
this is my advice to be effective and more competitive.
 
there is nothing wrong in not looking good.
 
but i wouldn't go to be what it can not be.
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