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How to improve spin in serves?

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    Posted: 03/25/2009 at 1:35am
So how do I improve spin in my services? Right now most of my serves are fast and deep, with a little back/side spin. They are being easily blocked or looped no matter where I place it. One guy I play with can serve almost as fast as me, but with tons more spin in it. So what's the trick in getting fast spinny serves?  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hookshot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 1:58am
Thinner blade angle and fast bat speed = spin. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cagaragesales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 2:13am
pinch grip the blade rather than grip it entirely. That way you have more allotted wrist movement for spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wealthweb Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 2:28am
I am a fans of the Man Lin's ghost serve. I am still practising what a good serve is supposed to be.  My coach once told me that I have to rub the ball real hard by swinging and jerking my wrist abrubtly from one direction to another direction at the moment when the ball is in contact with the blade. If you can utilize the ground reaction from where you stand and transfer that energy from the ground to your body, arm, forearm and then your wrist, you should be able to create a tremendous momentum that will cause a severe spin or drive. Relax yourself before you do your serve and only let your wrist energy explode when the blade touches the ball. This is the moment when you should release all your energy at once.

Brothers and sisters, please correct me if I have said something wrong here, because I am still learning and is still considered a rookie while playing at my local table tennis club. Have fun!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 3:24am
strangely, i get more spin when i grip it entirely.  i know theres more potential with pinch grip so im practicing that.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 3:46am
before I answer, What kind of rubber do you use?
                           what kind of blade do you use?
 
step 2 almost every rubber can produce lots of spin when it is long. 
but not every rubber is that good at short heavy spin.
 
If this is your aim I suggest making an equipment change.  When you are shopping for rubber look at the ratings which say this rubber produces more spin than speed.  If you use a rubber which produces more speed than spin, then you can expect that the ball will want to fly forwards more.
If the spin is more than you will realise that you need to put more action on the ball to get over the net and give you the chance to put more spin on it as a result.
 
Technique is the most important part, but equipment is essential.
 
For me most people can do a range of long serves with soft backspin sidespin, no spin or topspin long.  There arent many players in the lower levels who can really produce tons of backspin.  So you can jump level very quickly if you can or are motivated to practise doing short backspin.
 
I constantly show my friends how to do it and I tell them practise and show me next time, but they never practise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Basically the ball that you are spinning I imagine you are actually hitting it forward even if you think you are hitting the bottom of it.
 
I want you to balance the ball on your horizontal blade.  See that point where its touching?  thats where you contact it.  And if you really want it to be super spinny you hit it there and actually  finish dragging it upwards.
 
This is totally different to what I see most people do.  They keep showing me there backspin which is hitting the back of the ball. 
 
Do I sound stupid?
 
most people I know call it BACKSPIN & TOPSPIN
 
IT SHOULD BE CALLED BOTTOMSPIN & TOPSPIN since these are opposites,
 
front spin would be virtually impossible
backspin basically would mean either lobbing the ball (if you do an upward stroke) or it means hitting the ball.
 
 
So hold the bat horizontal in anyway you like and keep it horizontal all the way attempting to meet the ball in the middle, dont worry about getting as a good serve, just concentrate on getting the ball to come back to you on any table.  Dining room table or wooden floor will do,  if you cant do this theres no point in trying to make do it low and short with a net in front of you.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 3:54am
oh, will you be able to do it overnight? no
will you be able to do it in highpressure situations in the next few months? probably not
 
Youve just got to practise it everyday...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ohhgourami Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 3:59am
Originally posted by bozbrisvegas bozbrisvegas wrote:

 
I constantly show my friends how to do it and I tell them practise and show me next time, but they never practise!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

 


unlike your friends, its the only serve i practice.  all my other club members use long serves while i use short Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 4:11am

Lastly, the ability to spin as you mentioned (shadow) is all about illusion. 

The thing people often fail to realise is that it isnt just post swing your arm around like a magician.
 
It is both specific post and pre serve fakes.
 
First you need a variety of serves,
For example,
you prepare to serve you hold the ball in your palm touching the right side of it with your blade with a slight pull back and forward as a ready for a tomahawk.  You then do your usual sidespin pendulum.  As soon as you have finished it you do the end motion of the tomohawk.
 
I try to do the diametrically opposite pre and post fake.  So If am going to topspin the serve I make out that I have backspun. 
 
Now they may catch on to this bluff.  So then I make it much more subtle.
I try to bluff pre and post pendulum sidespin backspin but do pendulum sidespin topspin.  
 
There are some other curious things you can do.  One I thought of that looks ridiculous but totally worth trying is:
 
When you do your serve, you bounce your arm each time the ball touches the table. 
 
Anyway I should go practise now and stop talking about this.  Hope it helps mate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 9:41am
Look for a Killerspin Video on you tube that has some excercises for feel of the paddle. If you start doing these excercises more frequently, it will help your services.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rich215 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 10:13am
boz   excellent post on serves.....your right...PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE !   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ErikaT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 10:23am
if u are doing side spin. u can make full use of the wrist.
i mean doing a full turn on the wrist. even when the blade had touched the ball. u continue to do the full turn. then u will produce a maximum spin
 
 
hope u understand, as i cant use english to explain in a clear manner
 
thx
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Swiff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 10:41am

Practice.

 
(Remember to brush, not hit the ball.  Faster the brush and more extreme the racket angle.  The more spin)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cagaragesales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 10:50am
Ohhgourami got it right. Played him a few days ago at Walnut Gym. I'd say his strongest shot is his serves. He's got it down, just needs a bit more variation. Good short under and short side serves though.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 11:43am
Originally posted by 5370H55V 5370H55V wrote:

So how do I improve spin in my services? Right now most of my serves are fast and deep, with a little back/side spin. They are being easily blocked or looped no matter where I place it. One guy I play with can serve almost as fast as me, but with tons more spin in it. So what's the trick in getting fast spinny serves?  


get the maximum movement from your wrist (find the best way to hold the paddle to enable you to do this).. timing is important.. don't hold the bat too tight on serves.. experiment on where to contact the ball to get maximum spin.. nearer the tip is usually best to get maximum spin because that is where the bat travel the fastest..
the best server I ever see contact the ball near the tip of the bat on most of his serves..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dragon kid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 11:50am
also the higher your toss the better the spin, but the harder to get the timing right..
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Recanter Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 2:31pm
Trying to make it simple as possible.

If you are serving long and deep with little spin, you are probably hitting the ball in the middle of your bat.

1. For starters, just try to contact the ball at the edge of your bat.
2. Once you have this mastered, you can increase the spin by using your wrist to make a last second brush to the ball.

3. Once you have this mastered, you add timing to your contact. This is where your ball toss comes into play. You must have a consistent ball toss to have a high quality serve. This way you know exactly "where and when" the ball will drop so you can be in position and time your brush perfectly. Lots of players stumble on learning serve because they throw the ball a different way every time.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

Enjoy :)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 5370H55V Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/25/2009 at 10:10pm
Thanks for the replies so far. Like many of you said, I've been hitting the ball near the back instead of bottom, with the center instead of the edge of the bat. I haven't realized this until you guys pointed it out! LOL And for the record I'm using the 729 V6 with cream transcend rubber. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 2:39am
Your rubber seems quite alright to be able to produce a lot of spin - I checked the specs which i think are 50/50 speed and spin so basically you need to practise.  copy copy copy players around you that can do what you are trying to do.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ThaiLe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 2:43am
Originally posted by Recanter Recanter wrote:

Trying to make it simple as possible.

If you are serving long and deep with little spin, you are probably hitting the ball in the middle of your bat.

1. For starters, just try to contact the ball at the edge of your bat.
2. Once you have this mastered, you can increase the spin by using your wrist to make a last second brush to the ball.

3. Once you have this mastered, you add timing to your contact. This is where your ball toss comes into play. You must have a consistent ball toss to have a high quality serve. This way you know exactly "where and when" the ball will drop so you can be in position and time your brush perfectly. Lots of players stumble on learning serve because they throw the ball a different way every time.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

Enjoy :)


Excellent points...Thumbs%20Up

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DanBrizVegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 7:10pm
Boz makes good points.
 
I tried them against him last night, and for once in a blue moon i actually was effective in serving... the biggest thing From what i gather is backspin. going underneat the ball instead of behind it - even with the most gentle motion - really stops you "pushing" the ball into the table, so to speak.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roundrobin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 7:37pm
So how do I improve spin in my services? Right now most of my serves are fast and deep, with a little back/side spin. They are being easily blocked or looped no matter where I place it. One guy I play with can serve almost as fast as me, but with tons more spin in it. So what's the trick in getting fast spinny serves?  
 
 
Right now your wrist is probably too stiff when you try to serve.  You should concentrate on loosen up your wrist as much as possible when you serve.  Get an anti-spin rubber like Butterfly Super Anti or any other cheap anti and try to practice serve with it.  Practice serving with as much spin as possible with the anti for at least 10 minutes a day, followed by another 15 minutes session with your normal rubber.   Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 7:41pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bozbrisvegas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 8:47pm
Dan,
You clown! Love the name, DanBrizvegas lol we sound like brothers...
 
And finally welcome to posting instead of lurking around.
 
I'm really happy finally that there is someone on this forum I can say I know. 
 
p.s. thanks for the beers and pong last night.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote larrytt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 03/26/2009 at 10:01pm
More than any other technique in table tennis, you need a coach if you want to develop spinny serves. Once you learn the basic technique, then you can take it from there. Make sure to get spinny inverted rubber if you want to maximize the spin, and really put your wrist into each serve. (Keep it loose and relaxed.) One suggestion - when you are first learning to put spin on the ball with your serve, try it away from the table, on a rug. That way you can concentrate on technique and spin, and the rug gives pretty good feedback if you are getting spin. When you can create great spin, then try controlling it at the table with a regular serve. Good luck!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 729 FX Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 04/13/2009 at 4:07am
Originally posted by Recanter Recanter wrote:

Trying to make it simple as possible.

If you are serving long and deep with little spin, you are probably hitting the ball in the middle of your bat.

1. For starters, just try to contact the ball at the edge of your bat.
2. Once you have this mastered, you can increase the spin by using your wrist to make a last second brush to the ball.

3. Once you have this mastered, you add timing to your contact. This is where your ball toss comes into play. You must have a consistent ball toss to have a high quality serve. This way you know exactly "where and when" the ball will drop so you can be in position and time your brush perfectly. Lots of players stumble on learning serve because they throw the ball a different way every time.

Perfect practice makes perfect.

Enjoy :)
 
Agree with Recanter's comment. A serve contact at the edge of the bat produces more spin as it brushes the ball as compared with the contact at the middle of the bat.
 
Also your equipment is OK for spinnier serves.
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