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Short Serve Strategy Question? |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Make your serves polished, perfect for your standard, forget the top Chinese players, If you really wish to progress, try to make a structured game around your serves and what you are capable of.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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addoydude
Silver Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 848 |
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yes. if you are a defensive player you need only 1 or 2 serves. if you have only 1 or 2 serves, you will become a defensive player. |
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smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
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yes. if you are a defensive player you need only 1 or 2 serves. if you have only 1 or 2 serves, you will become a defensive player.
or counter attacker lol
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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How many serve do you normally have so that you will not become a defensive player? (I am actually ask all non-defensive players on the forum). I actually want to be an defensive player, but my reaction is bad, so to win point I usually have to make a move first, hence I am not a defensive player. I have about 5 serves but normally use only 2-3 during game, as I don't rely on serve to win point (unless my opponent is very bad in serve return ). |
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Pongz
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 376 |
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+1.. very good point... I am also not suggesting that I am playing with one serve, mainly to one location is yes... but with different type of serves i.e. spin/no spin, pendulum/reverse, etc... If my opponent is anticipating or moves closer to the spot I normally serve, then it is a good time for me to do a surprise serve.. to caught him/her off guard and playing honest with the spot that I mainly serve... Again, with a short serve to opponent's FH, I am limiting my opponent to mainly 3 things: FH flick, deep push (down the line or wide) and short return... In my opinion, these are the safest return I can get.. the faster flick they give me, the faster they need to return to their position if I was able to return their flick even with a block... I can live with this option because I think FH flick is the weakest attacking stroke "generally"... So they have to be careful as well with their aggressive flick.. With a deep push return, well, this kind of return is supposed to be considered a good opportunity for us to attack.. and let's say I can't attack for any reason, at least I have moved my opponent from his position.. giving me a chance to attack on the 5th ball.. because by moving him out of position I am hoping a weak return on the 4th ball giving me chance to attack on the 5th ball... is that making sense? With a short serve to BH, I am thinking that maybe it is more to force BH to BH rally or maybe to do a counter attack style.. where the opponent is tempted or forced to do a BH flick and boom you came with your 3rd ball attack counter loop or smash.. any deep push return will also be attacked... so more suitable for more aggressive play.. Do you agree? Am I correct? |
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Butterfly Sardius
FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
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Speedplay
Premier Member Joined: 07/11/2006 Location: Sweden Status: Offline Points: 3405 |
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Once you reach a good level, the serve isn't used to win points, it is used to set up the point and the most important part about it is to make sure your opponent can't attack it strong and that you have a clue as to where the return will come. I still rate my self as a defender, but when I serve, I try to be a third ball attacker. If that doesn't work out, I turn to defensive mode. The same when I return, I look for the possibility to attack, but if it isn't there, I resort to defending. Don't know how many serves I have, but I have 1 bread and butter serve that is used the most part during the match, the rest of the serves are mostly made to keep the opponent on his toes so he can't be sure that he will always get the same serve. |
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mhnh007
Platinum Member Joined: 11/17/2009 Status: Offline Points: 2800 |
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That's exactly what I mean. I don't need to have many serves, but quality serve, serve that I do not get attacked on, and if I can use it to setup the 3rd ball attacked, then it's a plus. Also, I think if during game you only use 1-2 bread & butter serve, then you more than likely know where the return ball will be, and can get ready for it. |
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Pongz
Super Member Joined: 10/10/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 376 |
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any playset/strategy based on your bread and butter serve, you can share with us Speedplay or mhnh007?
Thanks in advance.. |
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Butterfly Sardius
FH Donic Barracuda BH Tibhar MX-P |
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Ranger-man
Gold Member Joined: 03/27/2008 Location: Pakistan Status: Offline Points: 987 |
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I always use my bread and butter serves for the most part, and if they are working then I will persist with them. What I also do, is that as the match goes on and if at certain points of the game I feel I have a safe enough cushion I will try another serve as well. There are two reasons for this. One of course is to see if I can get away with out using my bread and butter serve because I do not want the opponent to get used to it, and the other is to see if I have a fall back in case he does get some idea about my bread and butter serve.
And if during the game I find another serve that works, I will start using that and save my bread and butter for crunch points. |
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mandoman
Member Joined: 04/05/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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I'm a medium level player or below, but I've had good success using baseball pitching types of strategies against a variety of players. By that I mean knowing that the batter wants, and then showing them pitches that look similar but are not. I've worked on being able to put 4 different types of spins in either corner (left, right, top & backspin) in addition to the short sidespinners on either side or middle.
There might be a youngster who is aching to unload his forehand smash, for example. I might give him one he likes to start the dialog, a big fat topspin maybe. But then throw one that tails away on the next one, followed by one into the body after that, with slight changes of pace so the spin will grab. Its amazing how often people will think that its their own mis-hit rather than a slight variation in serve that makes them miss, so when its working there's some loss in their confidence in their stroke. |
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addoydude
Silver Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 848 |
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well if make the choice between having 1 serve and having many poor copies, then you may have a point. but there is a third choice: having many good serves. i think it is counter to the idea of "attacking" if you use only 1 serve. at the single moment of the game when you have absolute control over what to do with the ball, to not initiate the agression by deception, variety, and surprise, is a defensive mindset. Also 1 or 2 serves with no deception, your opponent will find the best response after you try it a few times. Even if he cannot attack, he can at least return the ball so you cannot attack either. Or since your serve is predictable, he can even return with deception, variety, and placement. And it would be like you gave him a turn of service. There is no serve that is so good that an average player will not be able to control the return if he knows it will be the same serve over and over. A short underspin serve for example, can be pushed back short, pushed back long, pushed back to the left corner, pushed back to the right corner, pushed back to the elbow, flipped back, sidespinned, or even looped to any direction. |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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what I am saying is that there is players i know who are above average who basically only use one serve, but because of this, and because they are also good players, they totally own the third ball because they are used to getting every concevable return. A particular player I know, who would easily be USATT 2200 uses one serve, a short b/hand side/chop to the opponents f/hand, obviously if he plays high enough up the standards he gets eaten, but in his own level it works very well for him, he's constantly playing the same scenario out. So if you want to get to international standard it is important to develop a range of serves. If you want to get from USATT 1400 to 2000, its not, you can do it with one quality serve.
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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If you are good enough, you don't really need that many serves. But again that takes away from the serve as an potential weapon.
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BMonkey
Gold Member Joined: 11/28/2008 Status: Offline Points: 1015 |
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addoydude
Silver Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 848 |
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Are you sure he's not using one serve motion with deception? Do you see his opponent ever dumping the ball into the net, or ever popping up a ball? For sure, if you serve a non-deceptive short side/chop to a 2200 player, he will not have a hard time returning it safely. If the player you know is owning the 3rd ball, then his opponents must be giving him long or high returns because they misread the spin. Have you asked this player if he does indeed serve only one way, or if he uses deception? |
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addoydude
Silver Member Joined: 01/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 848 |
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Who is good enough? The best players in the world all use varied serves and use deception. But relatively speaking, if you are good enough COMPARED TO YOUR OPPONENT, yes I agree. |
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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as in excellent opening loops, good short game, flips, loops, counters etc.. The person serves, they return with a flip, ok they have great loops, no problem. Then they return short, they can return short or flip, push etc.. and they can still win the point because the rest of their game is good. But I know a few 2100 that have limited serves, not as simplistic as one serve, but same placement and are not trying to win a point directly on serve because higher level of play, the serve is not that much of a weapon. But you need to have a serve that is not attackable. |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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