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[Video] Jeff(ATTC)'s FH and BH

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smackman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:35am
some good improvements there Thumbs Up, just 1 think is after your last shot you stay extreme right , I think that by doing the last shot and getting back into left of centre will be more realistic or maybe finish with one in the middle
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bonggoy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 11:52am
Very good at drills, lousy at matches. Design drills that simulate games e.g. Serve to bh, push bh, spin bh, block to bh, spin drive to the body or wide to bh.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 1:30pm
Thanks for the input guys/gals!
@tgph2k:  hopefully I get to do that next time!
@smackman: you're definitely right, my balance is way off after my crossover, been watching some RSM videos to see how he does itBig smile
@bonggoy: I would say so too lol.  Hopefully after this week of basic footwork I can get started on those combo's.


Edited by Jeff(ATTC) - 09/19/2011 at 1:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/19/2011 at 2:09pm
i really hope that we will bump into each other again jeff!!! i think the myTT community will thoroughly enjoy a rematch between us =D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 3:31am
Another update!  Check out the first page for notes since my last post...



Edited by Jeff(ATTC) - 02/20/2012 at 4:19am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainer87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 5:44am
I am novice to comment your game, but I will write down what I think anyway.

In my opinion:
You are a lot sharper!
Your footwork is the biggest improvment I think, do you agree with me?
You balance has also improved.

One thing is little bit off in my opinion. I hope I am not wrong and others will correct me if I am, but it seems that after service you sometimes jump too much into the middle of the table and when ball comes back to your BH, you have to move back to BH position. You must stay at your BH, because it is easier to cover your FH side with your wide FH. With BH strokes you must be in position with feet on the ground and not moveing, its yeasier to do shot while moving with FH (this is actually what one forum member wrote about me, when he was analysing my game). I saw this because I do it as well.

Also I can see in your play that you have a lot more confidence in yourself than before. You are taking more chances and they are usually rewarded with a point.

I was looking your older video, where you were passive and it look like you were holding yourself back, like in this point you should have went for the loop at third ball, instead you pushed it back to be safe, better player would have punished that with bh loop, but NOW you are going for it, very good.

This is very nice point although after service you jumped yourself out of position you managed to make decent BH loop. It seams that with BH loop you are holding yourself back, I saw your training video and I can say that you have very nice BH loop technique, but you fail to do it a game. Again it is the same with me, in training I can control myself a lot better than in a real game, thats why it is important not to hold back yourself in real game, you have to go fot it, it doesnt matter if you win or lose a point. Dont hold it back like in this one. This is what one very good player told me when we were playing doubles and I did and I was suprised with my success.

It seems to me that you are attacking balls yearlier than before and you are doing that very well.

Good stuff!


Edited by Rainer87 - 02/20/2012 at 5:57am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gatorling Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 10:44am
Very good strokes. I'd say your stroke and footwork quality is at least 2000 but could easily be 2100 or 2200. Maybe you just lack game experience? Regardless, stick with whoever your coach is. He definitely is teaching you the right footwork.

Your cross over step is text-book and well executed. Your weight shifting for FH is spot on.

And this might just be preference, but I tend to favor a more straight arm stroke whereas you keep your forearm bent in.

Really no criticisms, everything looks good. If you're 1800, it's probably only because you lack game experience and maybe people with funky/weird styles still give you problems.

I'm much the same way, put me against a top spin player and I do well.
Put me against someone who soft blocks a lot and I have problems.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 10:58am
Very nice! I liked how you played him!

Is your opponent using short pips on the forehand? Reminds me of a match I played yesterday. Maybe I should post a video for comparison since our styles  are very similar.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rainer87 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 11:15am
Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Very nice! I liked how you played him!

Is your opponent using short pips on the forehand? Reminds me of a match I played yesterday. Maybe I should post a video for comparison since our styles  are very similar.


U should do it! :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 11:20am
Originally posted by Rainer87 Rainer87 wrote:

Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Very nice! I liked how you played him!

Is your opponent using short pips on the forehand? Reminds me of a match I played yesterday. Maybe I should post a video for comparison since our styles  are very similar.


U should do it! :D


Ok, I'll start working on the video. I'm Mr. Mom today, so hopefully the baby will sleep long enough for me to put up the video.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 12:55pm
If you are using WLQ as a stroke model you need to be aware of one major issue when it comes to the stroke mechanics. Arm radius. At the risk of getting into a major debate over "straight arm looping" relative arm length matters. Your loop stroke looks very close to WLQ's except the bend in your arm is closer to 120' on your take back and around 90' at ball contact and recovery(both in practice and games). WLQ however is more like 150'-160' (his arm only bends to 90' at very end of his recovery) during practice and around 175' during matches(180' being straight). 

The difference is that for any given fixed ball speed you actually swing slower the straighter your arm is. Conversely for any given rotational velocity there is more kinetic energy at ball contact the straighter your arm is. 

If you decide to experiment with this be aware of two things. 
1. Your strike zone is farther away from you so you will have to adjust your spacing and footwork. When you are going towards your forehand side their is a tendency to over run the ball, and when you move to the backhand side their is a tendency to not move far enough over.
2. Timing the stroke will be different because, in general, you are swinging slower than you normally would. What you and your practice partner should start noticing is that the balls you hit go faster than your stroke speed would otherwise indicate.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 2:32pm
Tsk Tsk Jeff(ATTC)!
 
You shouldn't have edited the match so much. I was there for the match and you can learn more from your mistakes than your successes. Don't be shy! Big smile
 
The guy in light blue is double inverted, Lexsha Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 2:36pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

The guy in light blue is double inverted, Lexsha Smile


The only reason I thought he was a pip player is because of the stop blocks and quick flat counter hits.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 2:37pm
@ Rainer: Thanks!  I will definitely work in some more BH practice into my routines.

@Leshxa: Thank you!  Tuan is using Express X-Plode on his FH.  His FH is very explosive and has tremendous spin.  When he trysLOL  it is very difficult to put anything back on the table once he attacks (which he is very good at).

@gatorling: thanks, actually trying to bend my elbow and pull it into my body.  I didn't realize what I was doing until I saw the match video. (slightly frustratingAngry)

@ V- Griper: lol I'm actually trying to get away from WLQ, ML, ZJK, chinese style strokes. I'm trying to go more euro something more similar to Z. Primorac, or Yan An (that as Chinese as I want to getLOL).  I didn't realize my elbow was so far out.  After the match I went to the robot and took some video trying to tech my elbow with some success.  I want my game stroke to look like my practice stroke here.    The points you mentioned I feel are very valid and will address those in practice.


Edited by Jeff(ATTC) - 02/20/2012 at 2:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

The guy in light blue is double inverted, Lexsha Smile


The only reason I thought he was a pip player is because of the stop blocks and quick flat counter hits.
Well, Jeff(ATTC) edited out most of the light blue player's crushing forehand loop kills. Then you would have known he was using inverted LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 2:48pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

The guy in light blue is double inverted, Lexsha Smile


The only reason I thought he was a pip player is because of the stop blocks and quick flat counter hits.
Well, Jeff(ATTC) edited out most of the light blue player's crushing forehand loop kills. Then you would have known he was using inverted LOL


lol in that case my videos are probably not good for comparison. Too bad I just got one uploaded :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 3:02pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

Originally posted by Leshxa Leshxa wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

The guy in light blue is double inverted, Lexsha Smile


The only reason I thought he was a pip player is because of the stop blocks and quick flat counter hits.
Well, Jeff(ATTC) edited out most of the light blue player's crushing forehand loop kills. Then you would have known he was using inverted LOL
Hey I tried to put in all his looping! He decided to block.  All the looping he did that match is in the video, and almost all of the time he did loop he won the point LOL
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 3:24pm
I dont get why people post highlights when asking for advice, every point in a match is equally important! I understand that everyone wants to look good, but you can get much more accurate advice if you upload full matches rather than just select points.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by dingyibvs dingyibvs wrote:

I dont get why people post highlights when asking for advice, every point in a match is equally important! I understand that everyone wants to look good, but you can get much more accurate advice if you upload full matches rather than just select points.
I'm actually downloading the whole match right now!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 4:18pm
Full Match

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/20/2012 at 4:28pm
That's great, I'll try my best to offer my help tonight after watching it! :D
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BH-Man Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 12:52am
Originally posted by gatorling gatorling wrote:

Very good strokes. I'd say your stroke and footwork quality is at least 2000 but could easily be 2100 or 2200. Maybe you just lack game experience? Regardless, stick with whoever your coach is. He definitely is teaching you the right footwork.

Your cross over step is text-book and well executed. Your weight shifting for FH is spot on.

And this might just be preference, but I tend to favor a more straight arm stroke whereas you keep your forearm bent in.

Really no criticisms, everything looks good. If you're 1800, it's probably only because you lack game experience and maybe people with funky/weird styles still give you problems.

I'm much the same way, put me against a top spin player and I do well.
Put me against someone who soft blocks a lot and I have problems.
 
Gatorling, When Jeff was 1300ish, his practice strokes looked 2000ish. A lot of his practice has caught up to his rating and will increase even more.  The ball don't lie.
 
His partner in this vid is a very advanced player (Easily over 2200) and appeared to be pretty much allowing Jeff to attack and was practicing defense or simply allowing Jeff to continue the attack. This partner would blast some of the long stuff Jeff was giving him. He would also counter that stuff by you and make you spin. Nah, he was just practing and letting Jeff practice an opening and continued attack.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 10:12am
Is it me or is that a borderline illegal toss. I know it is close to the min six inches required,  but you would need a micrometer to measure the difference.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunilid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 12:05pm
Jeff -- the faster/spinnier your shots, the faster Tuan will play (as you may have noticed from other matches with him).   So, the fact that it *looks* like he's not playing that hard, may be an indication that your loops/drives (with this euro-style strokes you have converted to or trying to change to), weren't appearing as lethal to him, and he could simply block them, and pick-loop the ones he wanted to.   Just a thought...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 12:19pm
Thanks for uploading the whole vid Jeff(ATTC).
 
I think what you could improve most is your passive play (not just drop shots!). That's not the same as defensive play, and it obviously isn't attacking, it is somewhere in the middle. On your service returns you seem to miss alot because you go for an outright attack alot, but can't execute with a high enough success rate (yet). I think if you could improve your passive play you wouldn't have to go for an attack right on service return because you would be confident that you could force a weak opening attack from your opponent and block it back strongly, then start your own counter attack. You see the pros have to block an opponent's opening attack all the time. Even Ma Long or Xu Xin constantly have to make passive shots to connect their shots so they have a chance to power loop. Passive play is an important glue in a player's game and allows a player to connect attacking shots together, even when things don't go as planned.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dalamchops Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 12:25pm
Originally posted by sunilid sunilid wrote:

Jeff -- the faster/spinnier your shots, the faster Tuan will play (as you may have noticed from other matches with him).   So, the fact that it *looks* like he's not playing that hard, may be an indication that your loops/drives (with this euro-style strokes you have converted to or trying to change to), weren't appearing as lethal to him, and he could simply block them, and pick-loop the ones he wanted to.   Just a thought...


there's a 400 pt+ gap between the 2. It's pretty hard for the other guy to get into it, especially with nothing at stake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote sunilid Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 1:09pm
Originally posted by dalamchops dalamchops wrote:

Originally posted by sunilid sunilid wrote:

Jeff -- the faster/spinnier your shots, the faster Tuan will play (as you may have noticed from other matches with him).   So, the fact that it *looks* like he's not playing that hard, may be an indication that your loops/drives (with this euro-style strokes you have converted to or trying to change to), weren't appearing as lethal to him, and he could simply block them, and pick-loop the ones he wanted to.   Just a thought...


there's a 400 pt+ gap between the 2. It's pretty hard for the other guy to get into it, especially with nothing at stake.


That's true, but I think there may be something Jeff can do with this style of play to push him back a bit and create a rally (which I have seen him do in the past with flatter-chinese strokes)...
such as maybe, dropping the hand a bit further back/down, and a bit more forward follow-through or thrust from legs/etc to create more power, a steady long push/etc, without resorting to his old-style of play.   Not sure...


Edited by sunilid - 02/21/2012 at 2:14pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeff(ATTC) Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/21/2012 at 3:59pm
Thanks sunlil and Bmonkey! I will try to work on this in practice and match.
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