Tactics against fishers?

Speedplay wrote: Video Finally, a working link! I have no idea how I did it, but it seems to be working

benfb wrote: pnachtwey wrote: Speedplay wrote: Video Finally, a working link! This is a classic case of not keeping eyes on the ball. One of my sparring partners does that to me all the time.  These use to drive me nuts and I still get caught every once in a while but now it is a losing shot.  Notice that the lobber hit the ball very low. I bet the looper couldn't even see the ball contact the lobber's paddle.  The lobber also did a good job of getting back into position.  In this case it wouldn't be worth taking a risk to hit the ball off the bounce just to shorten the reaction time. What would be interesting is to see if this trick worked twice in the same match.  The looper looks like he is good enough to react.  The looper just got too cocky and got burned. I am sending this link to my fishing/lobbing sparring partner. That's not an uncommon shot for lobbers.  In the video the looper's real problem was being too close to the table.  He should have been a little further back which would have given him room to adjust for the correct side spin.  In general, it's OK to stay a little bit further back on lobs until the moment of contact because you have so much time to move up.  Of course, if you've got bad footwork then you may often get caught too close to the table but I don't believe that's the case in this video.

dingyibvs wrote: No, pnatchwey is right, the problem is that the kid obviously relaxed and was too unfocused to adjust for the sidespin.  That's a very smashable ball, and the correct move is to stand right around the distance the kid was at, and smash the ball.  If you stand further back you'll have to loop, and since most people aren't used to looping slow, relatively dead balls from mid distance, and a loop would be easier to return than a smash, it's a very bad option unless you simply don't know how to smash.  In that case, you'll need to work on your smashing techniques and not tactics.

We'll have to disagree on this one.  I just rewatched the video and there's no way I would say he's in the right location for smashing that ball.  I'm not suggesting he loop but you need to give yourself room to make the swing and with good footwork you can make the last minute adjustment just as or before you swing.  Especially if you're uncertain of the spin (perhaps he couldn't see the stroke below the table) then you need to be in a position to make adjustments.

Is there a way to tell the spin of these under table flicks?  There is a guy at my club who can do this to most of my short balls.  Unless I can see the logo on the ball, I cannot tell which way it will jump.  In that case, I would guess the opposite direction as the way he makes it look.  But he has done this for years and quickly figure out I cannot read the spin.

Actually, this goes back to what I was saying.  If you have a good read on the spin then you can commit early.  If you don't have a good read then you need to give yourself space and be light on your feet.  It's not like a tricky sidespin loop where the ball is coming at you low and fast.  Lobs of all spin types still bounce up a long way (assuming they started from a high lob) so that gives you more time to adjust your position.  You won't necessarily get your best smash on these types of balls but it's a whole lot better than guessing and missing half the time.

When i play against fishers i generally try to break the corners when i hit the ball. Sometimes varying the depth in which you hit the ball forces the fisher to get out of their comfort zone

I average about 4 matches a month against a higher rated fisher/lobber (same guy as some of my previous videos). Currently, we split matches...

Tactically, preventing him from playing his strong game provides me with the most wins.

If I push short then long I can create situations where he has to play inside the table then gets jammed and produces weaker loops or makes unforced errors.

When he does lob, I try *not* to smash, only because he can return smash after smash and has good side to side footwork. Also, he does that Wiggle to disguise sidespin, so I am much safer letting the ball drop and then looping, vs. mistiming my smash.

What I notice is that if I can get him inside the table, I can attack his elbow with confidence, and not worry about having to recover in time for a return. My tactics rely on me being able to play a more passive game (using push and block short) than a defender.

It's a lot easier for him to move side to side than it is to move backwards.

pnachtwey wrote: Then watch the bounce. The good part is that you do have time to wait and see which way the ball will bounce.  The problem is that by waiting you don't alway get a chance to hit the ball at the top. Yes,  I flat hit.  There is no point in trying to loop a ball when I have a line of sight to the opponents side of the table.  I almost always do some sort of flat hit but lately I have been trying to put side spin on the balls.

Forget about letting it bounce (well, you must let it bounce, or else it's a volley) to avoid getting tricked by this, focus on taking the ball as quick as possible. Step in and hit straight of the bounce, before the spin have made the ball go far to either side. By waiting for the spinb to kick in, you are giving the lobber a lot of extra time and a chance to get back in to the rally.

Speedplay wrote: Step in and hit straight of the bounce, before the spin have made the ball go far to either side.