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Trying to improve.

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Iseedeadpeopletoo View Drop Down
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    Posted: 05/03/2012 at 3:55am
Hello.  I´m a table tennis player from Iceland, trying constantly to improve.  Here is a video of me (blonde) playing against an opponent  from Mongolia.  I like many of the comments made to videos on this forum that I believe can improve the players game.  Where do I need to improve?  Where are the flaws?  Don´t be shy to criticize.

All the best.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ZApenholder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 4:21am
Hey there,
welcome to the forum.

I normally will watch a video a few times before I start feedback. I've only watch it once so far, at first I just feel you were rushing your shots, - 3rd ball or 5th ball etc.
I'll watch it again later.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Leshxa Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 11:50am
The good:

You have excellent serves, good control and touch, and a very consistent backhand.

The bad:

Weak forehand and slow movement to the forehand
Forehand Smash needs work
Weakness maintaining a long rally.

You are probably a better player than I, but I think after observing this video I can tell that you work more on your backhand. Your stance and patterns on the backhand side are a lot more fluent than the forehand movement. You wait for the ball on the forehand instead of driving the ball. It may be your style, but I feel that the technique is a bit old school. You need more speed on the forehand.

I agree with ZA. You always used controlled points. No 3rd ball attacks. Your serves are good and the opponent almost always returned a long ball, so you need to work on putting the next shot away. When you returned a serve well, you opponent gave you a more or less controlled opening, but you were choosing to block it gently instead of initiating your offense right away.

Strategy wise, your opponent had trouble against your underspin/sidespin serve half long into his backhand. You stopped serving that serve and instead served to the middle of the table, where the opponent was a lot more comfortable returning a serve with either forehand or backhand. Often the opponent simply attacked that serve to the middle of the table ( with side spin and side/topspin ), while the serve to his backhand almost always produced a push, which you attacked. I would have continued pressing him on the backhand. That's the shot your opponent missed the most, while forehand is the shot you've missed the most.

Not a bad match though! Keep it up!
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JimT View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 12:26pm
A few things you need to work on, imho

a) serve receive. You often stand farther than recommended, and as a result you pop up the ball when receiving. Generally you often stand half-a-step farther away from the table than it is advisable. That is my own fault as well so I recognize it when I see it... Embarrassed

b) racket grip. Have you ever tried to hold the racket a little deeper - I mean try and shift your grip a little bit more into the blade. It will allow you to have a faster FH shots and you should be able to stand a bit closer. Also it allows for tighter, lower FH and BH attack

c) your loops are relatively soft. There were only a handful of points where you hit a more-or-less fast-low loop when the ball was not over the table. Also many rallies went like this - you exchange 2-3 soft and relatively high-arc loops with your opponent and then finally he hits it a little faster/spinnier and your loop/lob goes off the table. Be a bit more aggressive on your second or third attack - prepare yourself for it.

d) have you thought about trying a slightly harder-sponged rubbers? it might help you to keep the ball lower and make your attack a bit more aggressive? do you have problems when playing against good LP players? what is current equipment?

A lot of questions. Sorry. Big smile

By the way, I think your opponent was from Tajikistan, not from Mongolia - his shirt said TJK on the back.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeIgado Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 12:35pm
You missed too many smashes because your feet were stapled to the ground lol Don't be afraid to kill the ball when its that high.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 1:32pm
Originally posted by Iseedeadpeopletoo Iseedeadpeopletoo wrote:

Hello.  I´m a table tennis player from Iceland, trying constantly to improve.  Here is a video of me (blonde) playing against an opponent  from Mongolia.  I like many of the comments made to videos on this forum that I believe can improve the players game.  Where do I need to improve?  Where are the flaws?  Don´t be shy to criticize.

All the best.

 
Greetings and welcome to the forum.  I usually don't comment on other people's games but I like Iceland.  I visited Reykjavik many years ago and one thing I remember was driving from Reykjavik to Gullfoss and Geyser in December is absolutely scary... unless you don't mind slipping and sliding on icy mountain roads.
 
(Note: these comments are for Hardarsson) I like your game.  The thing that I believe you should address immediately is the inconsistency in your backhand.  When I say inconsistency, I don't mean hitting however many loops in a row.  I mean more in the transition from looping push, then block/counterhit, then topspin and switching between these shots.  To illustrate, look at your BH form in 1:20, 1:26 (bad form although you got a net dribbler), 1:55, 2:13, 3:22, 4:56, 5:03, and the two worst examples are in 5:48 and 6:46 (watch the funny racket angle in your second loop).  You did have a couple of good ones in 4:25 and for 6:59, this was a very beautiful transition from BH loop against push, then again BH loop against topspin.
 
There are two ways to approach this and either one is up to you and your coach (I assume you have one since you're playing in an international competition).  First is the Robert Gardos approach, you just loop even when the ball goes off the bounce (instead of counterhit), and when you get a weak shot or step back from the table, unleash a stronger BH loop/rip.  Second is the Bojan Tokic approach, loop against underspin, then switch completely to strong flat BH stroke close to the table.  But switch to strong BH loop when stepping back.  Another player does this also, Lubomir Pistej.  When the ball goes to these three players' BH, there is no hesitation, no indecisiveness as to what they will do.  If you eliminate this indecision, I think you can elevate your game to the next level.  Honestly, judging from your style, I think you will perform better using Gardos' method.  Mini-loops close to the table then stronger ones far back and also against push.
 
Other than this, you look pretty young and can have many more opportunities for improvement.  I would say serve return is a little weak.  But you have good recovery for backcourt defense when you pop the ball up.  You will not have this opportunity against a player with better putaway.
 
Another area would be in the FH looping area.  I think your focus is mainly on strong spinning.  It reminds me of a young Michael Maze style.  However, as you progress, the need for point-finishing FH loopkill becomes more important.  The technique is there, just the mentality is missing.  Perhaps you can do more footwork drills forcing FH attacks, the ones ZJK does a lot with one middle and one on FH is a good one, maybe your killer instinct can be honed.
 
Good luck.


Edited by BeaverMD - 05/07/2012 at 11:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote power7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 3:06pm
I would change your crouching stance on the tomahawk/ax serves.  If a player attacks the return, you are 1/2 a step behind on both the bh and fh side.  

I advise you train for more consistency as others have advised.  You have the basics down, so you just need to have your transition between different stroke combination become more consistent.

More multiball drills.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iseedeadpeopletoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/03/2012 at 4:46pm
Thank you for all the great comments! 

I feel like I now have a clearer vision on where I need to improve.  You become blind to it unless you´re told where to focus your attention.  I just love this forum and what it can do for players wherever they are from.  It´s brilliant.   Getting constructive criticism here is worth I don´t know how many training sessions. You´re all welcome to Iceland and if you do visit be sure to visit my club (KR) beside going to Gullfoss and Geysir Tongue.


Edited by Iseedeadpeopletoo - 05/03/2012 at 4:46pm
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BeaverMD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2012 at 12:59pm
Originally posted by Iseedeadpeopletoo Iseedeadpeopletoo wrote:


You´re all welcome to Iceland and if you do visit be sure to visit my club (KR) beside going to Gullfoss and Geysir Tongue.
 
Man, like I said, that drive was pretty scary.  For those that don't know, Iceland only has daylight from around 11am to 3pm in December.  So it was dark and they didn't pour salt on the mountain roads (not sure about now) so all you see is this white road (if someone happened to drive on it before you do) covered with ice with a white background.  In other words, you just see a blanket of white.  You don't know you're off the road until you're in the ditch.  I did that four times.  One of those times, my car did a 360 spin before it ended in the ditch.  Luckily, it didn't rollover.  So I'm in this ditch and a bunch of Icelandic horses (the kind that has lots of hair) approached my vehicle.  They were probably thinking "Another dumb tourist that thinks he knows how to drive on icy roads." I'll have to visit again but during the summer when there is 20 hours of daylight.
 
P.S. There is a different video now.  It used to be Adam Hardarsson, now it's David Johnsson.  Which one are you?


Edited by BeaverMD - 05/04/2012 at 1:07pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/04/2012 at 1:57pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

 
P.S. There is a different video now.  It used to be Adam Hardarsson, now it's David Johnsson.  Which one are you?


Yes, I noticed that too. Perhaps this id is used by several players from Iceland together so that they can take turns getting advice? Big smile

I might know what the problem is - I think iseedeadpeopletoo posted the link to the Playlist, not to one specific video.
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Iseedeadpeopletoo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Iseedeadpeopletoo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 3:14pm
It´s Davíð Jónsson Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 6:42pm

I guessing from the fact that you playing at the world team champs this year that you play at a pretty good level. Where are you ranked at the moment?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote V-Griper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 6:59pm
I see that you are often caught flat footed on the transition to your ready position when you do a normal pendulum serve. Compare your transition to your opponents. Notice how he snaps his legs around into the ready position and has time for a foot work adjustment while waiting for the ball. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 10:13pm
My level is like 100 times lower than yours but I do watch a lot of table tennis videos and analyse technique.
I like your BH and FH swing mechanics, they look very fluid and natural with much potential. There's a bit of Zhang Jike and KLH flavour in those mechanics. Good basics  Clap
 
I think your most glaring problem is your footwork and body balance. You perform quite a lot of shots out of position.  
 
Footwork and body balance
First comment is on your stance while receiving serve(and your neutral position for that matter). Try pointing your right foot slightly more towards the right instead of forward, this should give you faster movement towards the right side of the table (short FH serves and sudden fast balls to your FH).
 
Another thing is that you are sometimes undisciplined in your stance. Your centre of gravity is not stable enough. Sometimes you have great discipline(for e.g. point at 0:42), but I always see you standing up after a serve and sometimes during a rally. You need to ask your coach to make sure that you keep the low, forward crouching stance at almost all times.
 
Your stepping in and stepping out footwork needs more work imo. I don't know whether this is correct or not but Liu Guoliang once coached Zhang Jike at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf_3tbvHeAc, at around 1:02 mark he asks Zhang Jike to always think of pulling or dragging your right foot to "find" the ball. It is demonstrated in 1:09 mark. Always maintain the low and forward crouching stance when receiving short balls, you are currently lunging for a lot of short serves which causes a slight lack of control.
 
Short game
Short game needs more work, imo you look like you don't have enough control on your short game. Work on your pushing technique(don't always try to bump the ball back but always actively impart your own spin). Look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pvuif1tdC9c at 0:44. A simple test to test your pushing technique is whether you can control side-topspin serves with your push. Also, experiment more with your pushes to make it more accurate, deadly and spinny.  
 
Also you might consider starting to practice the BH over-the-table loop like Ovtcharov and ZJK. There's a good video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozDWDiOUEcY at 0:47 that you can emulate. Remember to use the uncoiling of your back as a source of power and not just a wrist action. You already have quite a nice BH flip which can transition into a BH over-the-table loop just by turning your wrist inwards.
 
Looping
 
Try to practice a lot of "medium power", short strokes to increase your rallying capabilities, always maintaining a good low stable, forward crouching stance. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vf_3tbvHeAc 1:26 for some examples. This way you can get a lot of control over the table and the angles. Your blocks already look quite good but it doesn't seem like a integral part of your game.
 
I would suggest that you also start practising loop-killing loose underspin balls with both your BH and your FH, always maintaining your current good form. These exercises will increase your power much more and give you a lot more confidence in your shots. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFO0Ag1KdaE. Your stroke mechanics are already very good and this should just be a matter of practice.
That's my 2 cents for now... It'll be a lot of work but you'll get there!
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimT Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by Iseedeadpeopletoo Iseedeadpeopletoo wrote:

It´s Davíð Jónsson Smile


Then forget all my previous comments - they were for the other guy from Iceland...

A few things (after I watched the "real you" Smile)

1) when you go for a loop you are almost always extending your arm to almost straight line. It makes you lose some time which cost you quite a few points

2) again, have you tried to do a deeper grip? see my comments (for the other guy) on this matter

3) try to mix it up a bit. You missed some smashes after a few high lobs but you never tried a dropshot or a quick off-the-bounce drive/block or something else ... Same goes for your general strategy - it seems like you are always doing the most obvious, easiest shot, which is easier for your opponent to expect.

Generally, you are certainly better than 90% of the forummers here (me included) so I am not sure if we can really give you a lot of useful advice. Ouch
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dingyibvs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/05/2012 at 10:26pm
I think the current video is the right one...the first one posted had no blonde guy and both players were well above the level of asking for advice on a message board(those guys looked 2500+) which really confused me LOL

Now, I think it's pretty obvious from the video that by far your biggest weaknesses are footwork and connections.  What you need is multiball training, left and right, FH and BH, back and forth.  You have a TON of trouble adjusting to the ball quickly during a rally, get caught flat-footed very often.  Otherwise, your fundamentals are very solid and you have all the tools to make some pretty quick improvements.  Don't start off with very quick multiball practices, start a bit slow and make sure your footwork is correct first, then speed things up and make it a second nature.

Good luck man!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote raphyelrosby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/06/2012 at 5:22pm
I noticed that the shots you were making all had good contact and spin, but the ones you were missing were situations where you hit the ball rather than spinning it. I think you can make a better effort to use your spin to control the ball....Brushing the ball will put a lot of those harder shots on the table more often. Your spin shots look fantastic, make it happen more often. I get caught up doing the same things and often find myself saying "spin the ball for control". Your footwork looks fine, but simply making a bigger effort for control will help you. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2012 at 11:07am
Originally posted by JimT JimT wrote:

Originally posted by Iseedeadpeopletoo Iseedeadpeopletoo wrote:

It´s Davíð Jónsson Smile


Then forget all my previous comments - they were for the other guy from Iceland...

 
Yeah, I'm on the same boat.  My comments were for Hardarsson.  That has been noted in that post.  For Mr. Jonsson, I'd like to know whose ranking is higher, yours or Hardarsson? I'm guessing his but I think your form is much better, but you don't move quite as well.  Here are two key things that your seem to fall short on.  First, when you're in control of the point with your FH, you should not lose that point.  You did this on numerous occasions.  Sometimes, players miss that high ball but you did it numerous times.  This should be addressed immediately.  Definitely footwork related.  Develop that killer instinct.  Think of yourself as an Arctic Fox craving his next meal.
 
Second, you were caught by surprise quite a few times on your wide FH side.  Like you weren't expecting the ball to go there.  Maybe you were trying to guard your neutral and BH side too much.  Here's a footwork video that might help.  Watch the whole series too.
 
Good luck.


Edited by BeaverMD - 05/07/2012 at 11:35am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/07/2012 at 2:02pm
Lots of multiball drills and you will be really tough to beat.

Edited by Baal - 05/07/2012 at 2:09pm
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