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Zhang Jike's BH over-the-table loop

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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Zhang Jike's BH over-the-table loop
    Posted: 05/28/2012 at 10:47pm
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TTeveryday View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TTeveryday Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 10:49pm
Nice quads!
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kenneyy88 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 10:52pm
Playing against it is annoying for me. A lot more people doing this, so I serve more to forehand and more backspin/no spin, less sidespin. 
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blahness View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 10:59pm
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Viscaria
FH: Hurricane 8-80
BH: D05

Back to normal shape bats :(
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote power7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 11:12pm
its called a flick or flip.  used to attack balls over the table that topspin or backspin.  can be done on fh or bh.  all wrist motion to generate spin.  i think i mentioned it as a training drill in your other post about increasing your bh spin.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote power7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 11:14pm
your 2nd video liu feels that europe is very strong, but plans to kick their but in london 2012.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote chronos Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 11:42pm
The 'World Class Serve Receives' video has a LOT of footage of this shot, with discussion, from both the forehand and backhand sides of the table.

I saw Adam Hugh training this shot against short side under service (from a righty) on the backhand side, I took notes:

"Adam steps in on the bh side with right leg.  Elbow is up, paddle leans down, wrist not cocked back too much.  When shot is played, elbow comes down from the accelleration of the forearm, wrist snaps on contact (stroke is driven by the forearm, wrist is secondary) whole stroke is very explosive.  Lots of brushing.  Wrist cocked 10 degrees past 90 w.r.t. net / end line, elbow almost at shoulder height, body leaning off center to the left"

What I saw was different from this clip of Zhang Jike - ZJ is upright, centered on both feet, and goes  over (and slightly to the side of) the ball

Here's a good clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5OtcmQE0aQ

Differences that I remember - here Jesse still stays centered, no leaning of the body.  You can see the elbow coming down here as the stroke is performed, just something that surprised me as the elbow is a pivot for a regular backhand drive or loop.  This clip makes the stroke look less explosive than what I saw.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote peter79 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 11:50pm
My coach name Gersa, met Zhang Jike in 2006 at Solo, Indonesia. ZJK crushed everybody in the team competition, including my coach, but at least he can get 1 set from ZJK.
He is very impressed by ZJK's backhand technique, especially inside table BH open loop.
My coach back hand is the same as ZJK style because he copy ZJK's.
I'll try to take video of my coach doing inside table BH loop against short underspin ball.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kenneyy88 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/28/2012 at 11:50pm
From the article with Ma longs technique:
Backhand sidespin flick is not a unusual technique, almost every shake hand looper has learned this technique already. It is commonly used in receiving serves, but rarely in consecutive pushes. It is because this backhand sidespin flick relies on power on the coming ball. It is easier to do sidespin flick when the coming ball has side-back spin. The properties of the spin and placement of this stroke are tricky. But the power of the ball is relatively weak, and placement is limited. If your opponent attacks uncompromisingly, you are in trouble. We can see that in the recent Asian game Men single final: Ma Long always used a side-step counter loop against Wang Hao's sidespin flick. But it is still very useful for amateur players; sometime it can score directly even. When we use backhand sidespin flick we need to be prepared for continuous attack, and we also need to recover quickly for the next stroke.
(Caption in picture 5): Contract abdomen so there will be enough room for back-swing
(Caption in picture 6): Lot of wrist movement for enough power; elbow points to right, so forearm can be flexible
(Caption in picture 7): Forearm moves with elbow as axis; slightly open bat angle, contact mid-left of the ball
(Caption in picture 8): Straighten abdomen to release power from the body; feet should make the body weight stable
Light steps, stable body weight, contract abdomen, enough back-swing. Rhythm should be slow and steady when doing backhand sidespin flick. Amateur players flick too rapid, which disrupt the rhythm. In picture 1-3, Ma Long's steps were short, and his upper body was relatively straight, so his body weight was stable. Amateur players miss the rhythm not only because they are too rapid, but also due to their positioning ---- they often side-step when receiving serves, so they need to adjust when they want to do backhand stroke. It will make the body too close to the table, and miss the right contact point.
In picture 4-6, Ma Long was contracting his abdomen really tight, and slightly raised his arm, for enough space for back-swing. His wrist movement was very big especially in picture 6. These motions were all for better brushing. We need to highlight spin in backhand sidespin flick, to make it more difficult for opponents. We need to keep the bat horizontal in back-swing. Some player would make the bat vertical because they want to brush the side of the ball, but it will limit the release of power from the wrist. Match abdomen movement with arm movement
In picture 7-9, Ma Long's sidespin flick was rather powerful; his abdomen was straight to release power from the body. His forearm was moving forward with the elbow as the axis when hitting the ball, and his wrist was turning to brush the ball. In picture 7, Ma Long contacted the ball at mid-left, but this was closer to center, because Ma Long was highlighting topspin rather than sidespin, which matched with Ma Long's style. Amateur players should focus on straightening abdomen. From picture 7-9 we can see that when Ma Long straightened his abdomen he looked like he was crouching. On the other hand, he used his legs to keep the body weight stable. Amateur players should learn this motion to feel how to use power from the body efficiently. It was obvious that Ma Long generated most forward force from his arm motion. Even his wrist was trying to hit/brush forward. Most amateur player generates sideward force in order to increase sidespin. But it will reduce forward force at the same time, which makes the ball slower and easier for opponent. If we want power and spin at the same time, we could adjust wrist and forearm movement: forearm mainly generate forward force, while wrist motion produce the spin. But it takes more time to learn. In picture 8, Ma Long's wrist sopped after hitting the ball, so the power would be released in a instant. If the wrist is loose and turn too much we will lose control. In picture 9-10, his stomping helped him to shorten his follow through motion, so he can recover to ready position quickly. That's what we call good tactical mind. We should be ready for topspin rally after doing the flick. Amateur players can stand a little bit further away from the table and hit the ball at its peak. They should add abdomen motion after mastering wrist and forearm movement. Also they should avoid too much hitting (compare to brushing). Spin is the first priority when doing backhand sidespin flick.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote silva7 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 05/29/2012 at 6:00am
strangest thing i noticed is that the ball contact is at the bottom of the blade. not a lot of room for error....
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