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Use FAST equipment to improve |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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If you imagine jumping on to a thin mattress placed on a wood floor, you are not going to bounce very high because you will make a heavy contact with the floor through the mattress. Alternatively imagine jumping on a very thick mattress placed on a wood floor, the thicker mattress will absorb more of your weight and catapult it back, so you bounce. Its the same with TT rubbers, if the sponge is thin it has less potential to absorb the balls impact. If you flat smash a ball it makes little difference in pace between the two, you 'bottom out' but when you brush the ball for a loop drive the sponge distorts sideways the the wood, and the more sponge you have the more it can distort, so there is more potential energy.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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pandasashi
Member Joined: 11/30/2013 Location: ottawa Status: Offline Points: 31 |
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so youre saying a thick sponge has more potential for speed/spin but less control?
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slevin
Premier Member Joined: 03/15/2012 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 3602 |
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Andy: I took a quick look. So, this is based on not enough info. You can't conclude a pull-back to a 1700 rating level based on one tournament in which you played only 2 matches (and lost both unfortunately). I've played both those guys. Steven is quite consistent for his level. And Eric is a bit of a penhold blocker. All I'm saying is that in case you downgrade to Sriver - like equipment based on a short match sample, you shall have to spend more time adjusting your game to equipment again when you move back to tensor - type rubbers in the future. Maybe the solution is to keep same equipment but temporarily give more emphasis to stroke recovery at the expense of stroke quality (have you seen Seguso's match video in his sig? kind of like that)? |
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APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
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Yes.
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The Older I get, The better I was.
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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I used to think that messing around with your grip was the ninth circle of table tennis hell.
But making major equipment changes in response to deficiencies in your game may be the real hell. Sometimes you have to do it. The thing is, though, don't throw out baby with the bathwater. PPP is suggesting some very very very slow rubber and then suggesting it in 1.5 mm. There has to be a Middle Way. I'm not concerned with bottoming out or anything like that, but this is a drastic change where a more subtle change may be called for. And people are making a recommendation like this without ever seeing someone play, knowing how he wins or loses points on the basis of one bad tournament. |
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puppy412
Silver Member Joined: 03/25/2013 Location: houston Status: Offline Points: 686 |
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yeah, in all honesty, anybody has to be able to handle at least a butterfly korbel or stiga offensive classic or donic waldner dicon + 2 bluefire m3 or acuda s3 2.1mm. if you can't, then practice more , don't change equipment Edited by puppy412 - 12/04/2013 at 1:17pm |
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andy.h
Member Joined: 05/23/2012 Location: New York, USA Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Well, it's not that simple - there was another tournament after the one you looked at, but the results are not posted yet. I did better (probably got used to faster setup) but I guess I will be still in 17++ territory. I had a couple of good games and a couple of very bad ones. And those bad ones were lost by those thee: blocking, pushing and serve receive. That's why it was like a freaking light bulb in my head when I read this thread - WOW, THAT'S SO TRUE, my blocking, pushing and serve receive went down the drain with new fast setup and that's exactly how I lost all those matches. My loop almost let me get away in those games but I was loosing point after point on serves and when my opponents made me push or block. |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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No Read more carefully |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Andy h, sounds like yes, your setup is too fast. Go slower. Not necessarily drastically slower, though. I think PPP's suggestion qualifies as drastic. Maybe try something between where you are now and what he suggests? Otherwise the rest of you game may need to be completely reconstructed too. Of course, I should not be making any suggestions either to someone I have not seen play.
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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I am not really stuck on Andy actually going that far. Just using it as a way of illustrating what kind of things there are to be learned and how one could do it... Just trying out a clubmates slow rubber would be quite educational. But really what's so wrong having a bit of an adventure in the slow lane? restricting yourself to a slow rubber requires you to rely on your table skills, and that was he seemed to be looking to enhance. Its up to him really |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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frogger
Premier Member Joined: 08/03/2010 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 3062 |
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It takes 6 weeks for your brain to adjust to equipment changes. Some changes are bigger than others so they will take the full 6 weeks while smaller changes take less time. If you are a habitual EJ then your game will suffer big time. Find something that fits and stick with it. Not everyone needs to play with fast equipment to become potent in their style even at higher levels.
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Wood Paddle
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Well one value of trying something that slow, even if it just for a few minutes, is that it reveals immediately kind of the "boundary conditions" which help to solve a problem. Frogger is right, it takes a long time to adjust brain. That is why severe EJing leads to no fixed pattern which is bad. PPP is right too, it pays to mess around a little with stuff just for fun.
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andy.h
Member Joined: 05/23/2012 Location: New York, USA Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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Another short personal story on fast vs. slow: my office recently moved to new building and they moved the tt table but forgot all the paddles. So for a couple of days people were forced to play with my paddle which I always have in my backpack and I was playing with mini-paddle.
Mini-paddle was super slow. However, it took me about 20-30 minutes to get used to it and start beating people (rest of my co-workers aren't very good). My strokes were never as clean and good form as the time I played mini paddle - I just had to do everything correctly to get the ball on the table. All the drives, loops, pushes had to be in perfect form, otherwise ball was short. So, the lessons I took from this: 1. It takes less time to get used to slow equipment than to get used to fast one. 2. Slow equipment really makes you use perfect technique, otherwise you won't get the ball on the other side of the table. So #2, as I said I am going with OSP Virtuoso (some say it's bit slower than Promorac), and I am thinking 1.8 Stiga Neos Tacky as a middle ground of all the advises given to me here: slow, spinny, tacky, middle thin, middle hard. |
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pingpongpaddy
Gold Member Joined: 06/27/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 1286 |
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Hey
seems like you have all the info you need. make a decision and go for it!! |
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inactive dotec carbokev
yin he galaxy 1 p ly FH moristo sp AX MAX bh moristo sp ax max |
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Krantz
Super Member Joined: 05/14/2009 Location: Poland Status: Offline Points: 276 |
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It occurred to me that just like some players chose especially fast equipment to patch the lack of their own power (which may be good or bad depending on particular case) others may take the equipment which is just very slow as a method to artificially increase the control of their shots. If you want to seriously develop your game then I would say that something in the middle of road is the safest bet.
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CraneStyle
Silver Member Joined: 08/06/2013 Location: Europe Status: Offline Points: 786 |
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Very good point... I have also seen players with flimsy backhands and badminton style forehands using slow equipment. The ball goes doesn't always go on the table either as they chuck the ball about. This thread has been a cathartic excercise for some, questioning their set-ups and looking to clock it all down. Try changing one side at a time first to fine tune it. Or change the blade with the same rubbers so you maintain a reference or you will be learning your touch all over again with a different set-up, even if it supposed to be slower. You could end up with a spin sensitive set-up that supposed to be slow and find yourself with a completely different game in your hands. But sometimes "fast" rubbers or "fast" set-ups let players down if they are too passive. GOOD active strokes can make the set-up behave. Usually the GOOD requires some coaching or a reliable third eye. ... Edited by CraneStyle - 12/04/2013 at 5:07pm |
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1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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Problem:
People do not like their setups for playing the loopers game as they are either too fast or too slow.
Solution:
Everyone should just get a Joola Rossi Emotion with Juic Nanospin II rubbers.
Pros:
Very controllable setup (between OFF- and OFF) with touch in the short game and power when away from the table.
Rubber once broken in lasts forever and get spinnier.
Blade has great dwell.
Cons:
None.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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jt99sf
Premier Member Joined: 04/29/2005 Location: San Francisco Status: Online Points: 4949 |
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How does the blade do against certain styles? loopers, PH blockers, modern defenders ? My Iolite Neo & TBS/Viscaria plays better against power loopers than the Photino. I can't keep the ball on the table with the BH block of the Photino.
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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)
林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14844 |
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The blade has the autopilot mode where it just decides to make everything spin on the table. You don't have to do any work. That makes it good against all styles.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
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Exactly. Like I said way back towards the beginning of this thread, with very slow equipment, the shoe is on the other foot. |
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