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Tips for tall players |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Sanity....? Really?... you are going to resort to that word. Okay. First video is of a CHILD who looks under 13yo vs a pro ADULT player. A child isn't going to stay at the same height btw. Also what issues have you "fought" that I didn't have?... Oh right because you are 2000USATT and you played a lot of tournaments that gives you experience to mandate and give advice on movements and physical conditioning to younger players while you yourself have been stuck at the same level for years? Sounds to me like the most ELITIST behavior ive ever heard. Let me go to coaches in NYC and tell them that someone on forums told me in order to be successful as a tall player I need to move less.
Edited by DreiZ - 09/10/2015 at 12:30pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14848 |
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This is very interesting mind-reading but I think it actually shows the problem here. You seem to think that physical limitations are the reasons that people plateau - table tennis is a much more complicated game than that. And if you get better at it, you may come to appreciate that. I would guess that part of the reason why you get frustrated with the game is that you keep on trying to play like people half your size. Most of this game is serve, serve return, third ball and fourth ball. Are you seriously saying that taller people move as much as shorter people to play these four shots? One of the first things that a tall 2200 player told me when I started playing was that I needed to stop playing like a small guy and stop standing so straight and moving so much close to the table. Now this same 2200 player also told me that my footwork is lacking. As you can see, he isn't confusing footwork with movement. At least, you are honest about your rating level. It's easy to look at world class athletes and take the wrong lessons. Again, taller people have leverage advantages and can get power out of shorter strokes because their shorter strokes are naturally larger. Because of their height, they can cover the same amount of distance with shorter movements. "Move less" does not mean "never move" or "plant your feet". But a taller person should NATURALLY appear to block more and counter more if they are playing the same style as a shorter person because more fast shots will be handled by rotating their body over their base vs. moving and taking full strokes. Of course, they will need to move, but any tall person moving as much as a shorter person will be an interesting case study. The one thing I notice is that some players think that all footwork issues are related to movement and that movement is the same as footwork. They are not - in fact, I tend to place them rightly or wrongly in distinct categories. Very often, lower rated players want to focus on footwork (which they consider the same as poor movement) as the reason they don't play well when usually, it is strokes first, foot positioning second and then the movement to support your strokes efficiently third. Whenever a tall beginner adult with relatively poor strokes is working on drills like Falkenberg etc., it's always a sad thing to watch. And if I remember rightly, when you posted videos about yourself, what you posted were largely your footwork drills which had you practicing things as if you were someone half your size. It's dangerous to parrot things without thinking about how and whether they apply to you. One of the reasons why pro players have highly developed footwork is that they started very young with huge ambitions. No one knows what height you will end up at when you are young. But as you get taller, you get trained to move less and less as efficiency close to the table becomes paramount when countering. Of course, your style of play influences this. Now that I have decent stroke play, I am working more and more on the kinds of movements I need to make to start the point close to the table. As an adult, you can't work on everything. You just need to find the things that will give you the most return. Here is a match between Wang Liqin and Ma Long. Someone could watch this match and think that both players are moving about the same. But that is a blind way of watching the match. Wang Liqin is blocking and countering with shorter strokes far more because his height supports and demands it if he is a two winged looper and wants to withstand Ma Long's barrage without giving up table position too quickly. |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14848 |
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Stuck at the same level for years? LOL. OK, I am done here. It's becoming clearer to me that you have no clue what you are talking about and are really complaining because you think that this sport is fundamentally about athleticism, rather than seeing athleticism as one thing that makes it easier to play.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Movement is obviously not footwork.... ... BUT all movement issues arise from poor footwork. If your footwork is lacking your movement will be inadequate and so will your strokes. It just happens that taller players can allow themselves to have a longer reach in certain situations but that's not always the case. About those so called numerous videos I posted of myself. I don't know why you think I did drills or whatever you mentioned but I've only posted one video of myself and that was when I was trying to learn the forehand loop. I wanted feedback on my stroke and fluidity. There were no footwork drills involved in that video. Also that video is from January 2012... Twenty Twelve. Edited by DreiZ - 09/10/2015 at 1:13pm |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Noone is complaining. But when someone says you should move less and then tries to weave in their elitist table tennis status into the conversation thinking they are better while their own form looks like sh*t... well yea I have a problem with that.
In any sport lateral movement is important and is different from body to body. Ofcourse a taller bigger player will move "differently" from a shorter player. Its common sense, but my point is they aren't going to be moving any less. Edited by DreiZ - 09/10/2015 at 1:17pm |
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cmetsbeltran15
Platinum Member Joined: 01/16/2006 Location: (ง ͠ ͠° ل͜ °)ง Status: Offline Points: 2427 |
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So, so wrong. |
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༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ take my energy ༼ つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14848 |
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"All movement issues arise from poor footwork"? OK. "... taller players can allow themselves to have a longer reach in certain situations but that's not always the case." Er, this is clearly rationalization. Say something that shows you know what you are talking about Like this: Taller players also allow themselves a shorter reach in certain situations because they have more leverage. "Also that video is from January 2012... Twenty Twelve." Sure, then post something more recent - some people don't change in 3 years. As for "weaving elitist table tennis status", the problem is that whether I am right or wrong, I am speaking from experience. And in fact, I may not be describing my experience accurately. Someone who played me thought that the way I played bore no relation to how I describe myself and that I move far more than I give myself credit for and play a much more physical game which he considered faster and more imposing than what his friends played. But the bottom line is that I am not parroting people for the most part - I am talking about some of the things I tried to do to get better and some of the advice I got from players who helped me with my game. And it's annoying when people who haven't put in similar effort or have put in similar effort but gotten frustrated by their results come in and start acting as if I have no reason to say what I am saying other than that my knees are bad, or that I don't move a lot, when what they are often voicing is their frustration. There was a post by Larry Hodges once about how a guy who was a 6 ft 8 adult was being coached by a smaller coach and the coach was having the tall guy do drills that would mostly make sense for someone much smaller and with different form. The guy was all confused. Larry applied a more ground based logical approach to the guy's game and gave him an 1800 level skill set. Not world class, no, but something that lets you play and beat good players in the USA. It's easy to take a one-size-fits-all approach to table tennis when you aren't trying to improve. And then it's easier to attack people over the internet for making reasonable even if not uncontroversial statements and make it sound like they are advocating laziness. Everyone would like to be the best mover in the world, but when you have more weight to carry, you rely more on your power and less on your movement. BTW, it takes ignorance of the demands of improving as an adult to say my form looks like sh*t. Just saying.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Don't worry I will once I fully get back into the sport. And i bet you still will try to rationalize and pass down your own ways just because they work best for your own body. In terms of that "improving as an adult..." stuff. It also takes arrogance and narcissism to give advice on footwork and movement given that you reached the level you are at right now with such poor form aaaaaand then try to preach the same nonsense to younger players that should be improving by the book, not unorthodox advice from the forums. but you know I'm not 2000 so I cant voice my opinion about the issue at hand. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
**apologies to the OP for hijacking his thread. Didn't expect it to get this far about such a simple thing.
Edited by DreiZ - 09/10/2015 at 3:05pm |
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14848 |
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You are probably the first person I know who claims so strenuously that I have poor form, especially without asking the question of how long I have played seriously for. When I hit with an older ex-2500 player when I was around 1300-1400 (in early 2012) and he knew I only had been playing seriously for about 8 months, he expected me to get to 2200 at some point if my health held up, saying that unfortunately, I started too late to get much better than that. Even when I was still mostly 1800-1950 (just last year), another ex-2500 player had the same conclusion even with my issues, and my strokes were worse then than they are now. That they would think someone with such poor form was capable of such things is amazing. I am personally happy and satisfied that I got to 2000 and I felt with my health issues that there was a real possibility that I would never do certain things including beating players that adults/kids far better than myself have never beaten. Nothing I claim is particularly unorthodox and coaches agree and disagree all the time. So I am not sure what you point is. Remember, I have worked with a variety of coaches and people, 2 or 3 much more extensively than others, but still a variety of people as our sport enables you to get advice from multiple people. My right knee is more severely damaged than my left and that explains 99% of the issues most people find in my current game when it comes to movement and footwork. Now that is truly specific to me and not a general principle. Other than that, I am a two winged looper who plays with heavy topspin on both sides. You don't find games more orthodox than that, though I can also exchange on both wings vs. specific opponents. Good luck when you get back into the sport. Playing this game well as an adult requires you to develop your own understanding of it. It can be wrong, it can be right, but it has to be yours. I know you strongly disagree with whatever you think mine is, but would like your take when you get back into the sport and have played for a few years and have gotten significantly better. Then you can decide with an informed view whether I am truly saying anything unorthodox.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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naijachief
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
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I'm 6'6" tall.....an extremely lazy player. I play hard in spurts, you can see my movement or lack there of fluctuate throughout my matches.
http://youtu.be/EFV1wumHnY8 |
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who no know go know
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NextLevel
Forum Moderator Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14848 |
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Ah, your sidespin looping na wa o! You've adapted your strokes pretty well to standing straight, especially your backhand. Given that date, you've clearly been playing a much higher level than me for much longer than I have even played.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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midnight watchman
Member Joined: 09/09/2015 Location: the world Status: Offline Points: 24 |
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why upload 2014 if u make much progress |
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naijachief
Gold Member Joined: 05/31/2004 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1385 |
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Oga, thank you. I actually started playing at 9yrs old. Played junior for my state but then took a twelve year hiatus before picking it up again. Had to learn the new ball, the new scoring system and the new service rules. First rated tournament I came out around 1800. |
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who no know go know
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DreiZ
Platinum Member Joined: 06/01/2009 Location: New York, US Status: Offline Points: 2577 |
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Because I changed my youtube channel and reuploaded them all at the same time to the new channel... And ironically my HD failed and I lost all the videos and I was glad that I actually reuploaded them. Any more questions that are not related to the topic at all?
Edited by DreiZ - 09/11/2015 at 8:20am |
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