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Double Sided J-Pen |
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NightyKnight
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Posted: 02/09/2007 at 1:35am |
I was wondering if anyone had any experience with or recommendations for a double sided j-pen blade.
I'm currently using the Nittaku Expert-H, and I'm sort of feeling that its a little too hard. There isn't really much of a feel of where the ball is going, and so I guess I'm looking for a blade with more feel and control.
I also alternatively have the Darker Speed 90. I tried it for awhile, but its only one sided and I haven't been able to bring myself to shave the other side in order to put another rubber on it - because I'm not sure if its legal, AND I'm afraid I might screw over the blade's authenticity.
I use to play Chinese penhold...and I guess I could just turn back to that style as there seems to be a lot more accessible blades to use that support the RPB hit. Though I enjoy TBH blocking with a j-pen blade...I guess a c-pen might offer a more stable RPB? - I don't know.
Does anyone have any helpful suggestions?
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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You don't need to shave the backside, just sand off the paintsheet should suffice. You can also sand off the corksheet on the backside, lowering it to the same height as the frontside of the blade (just like your Expert-H). It can be done, but it just take times and requires cares. I have done it to my TSP Dynam that is 10.5mm thick. Your Expert-H is much thinner than your Speed90 and about 20g lighter or so. You might need to take that into account before sanding your Speed90 and turn it to a RJPB blade. By the way, it's perfectly legal to do so.
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Try Violin J-pen RH (rounded) or PH (squared). I like it very much, very good control and good speed too.
Besides, you can get it light : mine is 72 grams. It is designed to use both sides of the blade. C-pen version is also available, but the lightest is I think around 82 grams. |
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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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NightyKnight
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Hm hm...what's the best technique to evenly sand off the back of the Speed 90? I sort of feel that if I do it with just a sheet of sandpaper, that I'll accidently create an uneven surface I wont be able to repair...
And the Violin certainly seems like an attractive blade, but its sorta on the higher priced end. I'm gonna have trouble letting go of the money.
Thanks you two for the feedback!
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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Using sandpaper directly probably will be tough and it's likely to create uneven surface. I use a sanding block. This particular one is a Rubbermaid 54851 Sanding Block. Use 120 or 150 grit size sandpaper. Don't sand off more than you need. Leaving a bit of paint behind will not hurt.
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NightyKnight
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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Whoa shoot! That looks semi-heavy duty...but is it just something that you put the sandpaper on to smooth it out? Maybe I should ask someone with prior experience to help me do it.
Plus, is it conceivable to just keep the paint on and glue a rubber on it like that? What problems would that cause?
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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Yes, you put the sandpaper on the sanding block (or pad). It will give you a larger flat surface (with almost even applied force/weight) when sanding the blade. I believe you can directly put he rubber on without sanding off the paintsheet. It's perfectly legal. Just take off some part of corksheet or at least make it straight instead of semi-circular, so it won't interfer when you glue the rubber on.
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O! Ju Qian
Gold Member Joined: 06/07/2006 Location: CA Status: Offline Points: 1049 |
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use a sanding machine at some nearby shop
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BL: Yasaka Extra Offensive CP
FH: Hurricane 3 Pro BH: Tenergy 05 "Practice is USELESS if you don't understand what you are doing." |
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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If you will do it by yourself and you have never done it before, perhaps it is better to use finer (abrasive) sandpaperblock, perhaps 400 mesh or finer.
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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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NightyKnight
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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I'm being a little paranoid...but do you know where it says that sanding the back part of a j-pen blade in order to place a rubber on that side is legal?
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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You can look up the rules here.
ps: nothing is mentioned there about converting a one-sided J-pen into a double-sided Jpen being illegal. As long as your setup adheres to the rules in section 2.04, then you are all set. |
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NightyKnight
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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I've got more and more questions.
Is playing with a thick 10mm hinoki j-pen blade with two rubbers on both sides a little clunky and clumsy? Is there any points worth mentioning concerning the feeling of using a 10mm j-pen with both sides? - When compared to using a thin little bugger like the Expert-H or the Violin?
And aeoliah: does the violin have a symmetrical cork handle on the back hand side that allows for twiddling? The Expert-H had something like that, and I shaved it off...I sometimes wonder if it was right to do so. The reason I did it was because I had heard that you were supposed to shave it off for 10mm thick j-pens...but the Expert-H is already so thin, and I made it even thinner by shaving that whole chunk off - I'm not sure if what I've done is 'correct.'
Another question that popped into my head is...is there anyone else who has these similar concerns? I thought that this would be more of a controversial topic, but maybe it isn't because there aren't many j-penners around.
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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@NightyKnight
By the way the feel of Hinoki 1-ply is very different than the multi-ply ones. You can try to bounce a ball on your bare Speed90 and Expert-H and you will know what I mean. Usually you can tell the difference when playing it. However the feel is a matter of personal preference. Some people like the Hinoki feel, but some don't. If you really want to modify a 1-ply 10mm Hinoki Jpen into a 2-sided Jpen, you can use lighter rubbers to keep the overall weight down. All the H versions of any J-pen are designed for twiddling play. |
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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I find that playing with single ply Hinoki 9 mm with one sided rubber already uncomfortable.
Regarding my Violin, both sides are exactly identical, and actually you can find also others from Nitakku, for example Nittaku Sanalion, and from Butterfly there are Paradox-R and Laphuta. You can find these blades at www.iruiru.com/e |
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takaaki
Premier Member Joined: 05/07/2006 Status: Offline Points: 3089 |
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i know someone who's playing with the SANALION and he says though it's not the best rackets he's played with, it feels a lot better holding it in his hand than a cpen blade. he's feels there's more support on the fingers.
he actually replaced the forehand side of the handle with a standard jpen cork handle and he says that even feels better. he's a jpen player who switched to cpen and then switched to this.
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NightyKnight
Super Member Joined: 10/11/2004 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 120 |
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hm, I haven't pulled out my Speed90 for use in awhile - I'll need to dig it up for some testing.
aeoliah: did you resort to shaving the cork handle on the back of your Violin? |
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Although I am not leaning my finger on the cork on the backhandside, I leave it as it is, because it does not bothersome.
Your Speed 90 is 9 or 10 mm ? I have one with 9 mm thick, and I also have Cypress. After Violin, I don't like the Cypress. I still have to try again my Speed 90 with F2 (formerly it has F3). |
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Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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Ksix
Super Member Joined: 12/03/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 395 |
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woudnt a double sided jpen be ridiculously heavy?
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わが青春に悔なし
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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For sure it will not be heavier than normal shake hand. Moreover, I think J-pen has less surface area compared to shake hand version, which means less rubber and less weight.
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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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elpmip
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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Interestingly, I started to use double sided J-pen recently after mainly playing with C-pen with RPH for two years and many years of single sided J-pen.
I have two J-pen blades, one is BTY Tectonic and another is BTY HCK.
BTY HCK is light. With a Donic Gallardo Power Sound on front and a RITC729 Super FX at rear, it is a bit too light and I put back a Bryce on front to get back some more weight.
The BTY Tectonic is heavier but yet feel comfortable with the Donic Gallardo Power Sound and a thinner RITC729 Super FX. Just have these rubbers on and will try tomorrow. Two Bryce or Almana rubbers, on both sides, will be too heavy. Try some light rubber at least on one side such as Stiga Innova Light, Donic Gallardo PS, RTIC 729 SuperFX, GeoSpin, LKT XP Pro, etc.
I guess there is a reverse side version of Darker Speed 90 as advised by www.iruiru.com
There is no need to sand the reverse side. The cork can be taken off without sanding. JUst get a cutter to scratch a line below which you want to stick the rubber on reverse side. Use a soft plastic rubber with edge to scratch out the cork slowly and carefully. If won't hurt the wood if done slowly. I have done twice.
Yes, if the reverse side has been painted black, a bit of sanding may be good. The reverse side of my BTY HCK and BTY Tectonic are not painted.
I wish there is a J-pen version of BTY Primo Mitesse C-pen which has better control and speed than HCK that I got as C-pen and J-pen.
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yuna
Super Member Joined: 04/13/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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hi elpmip,
its interesting tat u are using a dbl sided J-pen setup! it is rare to have a player favouring this kind of blade. i'm on the verge of buying a KTS but also beri curious abt dbl sided J-pen RH blade. emmm.... would u be kind enuf to compare both types of blade in terms of the feeling when playing wz them? can add anything tat u feel would be helpful. i'm a bit biased towards a Violin J-pen RH blade. i hv an Acoustic & it feels jus Great !! also a dbl sided J-pen RH has the best of penhold !! it is light, has bigger sweet spot, u can hook em wz ur finger, twiddle em when u need to & RPB! Best !! |
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Viscaria Tiffany
T-05 T-64 |
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Hi Yuna, do you play both shake hand and penhold?
I have both Violin RH and Violin C, but I prefer Violin C (I don't do RPB) as I find it slightly more powerful and nicer to block with. According to Nittaku's rating, the C version has slightly more control compared to RH version |
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Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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yuna
Super Member Joined: 04/13/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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thks for sharing ur experience, aeoliah.
i used to be c-pen player converted to shakehand abt 10mths ago due to the weak & uncomfortable penhold BH. used to lose much then, now i'm winning a lot more by consistently smash driving pple out of balance like WLQ. hee..hee.. my understanding of spin & strokes have deepen much since then. as a result my penhold BH is more consistent now. i still love penhold particularly J-pen now. so i intend to get a dbl sided one jus for kicks. can learn RPB eh !! Yeah !! shakehand will still be my main style interestingly, i'm quite alright with both styles w/o interfering with their respective strokes. i find j-pen beri challenging to master !! esp the footwork part. my gosh! its beri taxing for the body. tis will keep me busy for long time to come. i love Ping Pong !! hahahaha |
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Viscaria Tiffany
T-05 T-64 |
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Wawaicetea123
Gold Member Joined: 03/11/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1070 |
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i think turning a jpen into a j-rpb-pen is tomuch work if you really want a block then cut downa cpen and put osme cork there |
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Kreanga Aeros ST
FH: Tenergy 05 Red 2.1 BH: Flarestorm II Black 2.1 |
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silvalis
Gold Member Joined: 09/10/2005 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1006 |
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I've got an 80g Nittaku AP (short handle round head jpen) that I've stripped the cork off the back and RPB with it. Quite good, and the total mass is only around 145 or 150g due to the shorter face (my normal cpens are 160-170).
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Potato Face
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In_this_pace
Super Member Joined: 06/06/2006 Location: Ukraine Status: Offline Points: 194 |
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I play with Butterfly Laputha, it`s absolutely symmetrical and may be used for your purpose, but`s it`s only ALL+
http://images.google.com.ua/images?svnum=10&hl=uk&gbv=2&q=lapuhta&btnG=%D0%A8%D1%83%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B8+%D0%B7%D0%BE%D0%B1%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%BD%D1%8F |
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BTY Lapuhta ALL+
FH: Mark V 2.0 black |
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elpmip
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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Hi Yuna :
Comparing my two BTY J-pen, Tectonic and HCK.
Tectonic is the first generation Tamca carbon blade that I bought 15 years ago when BTY first release the carbon blade. It is just 7mm thick but it very solid and got no vibration. The two carbon layers are quite thick.
It is sort of like Sadius handshake feel, and Chinese carbon blade released at that time. I think there were not many models of carbo blade at that time.
It is fast but not the fastest compared with some modern blades in the market but with good speed. May be just too fast with Bryce, speed glued, on it.
Tectonic is a bit heavy and I cannot put two normal weight rubbers on it.
Either one normal weight or two rubbers need to be light when playing RPH.
On the contrary, BTY BCK is quite light. It got two very thin carbon layers, 1/3 of Tectonic but the speed is still fast but admittedly, it is not as solid as Tectonic but got not much vibration. It has a softer feeling that Tectonic.
HCK J-pen is only AUS$5x at www.presports.com and is cheap enough compared with other 1-ply Hinoki blades from BTY and Darker. Look at the small sizes of Nitaku, I am hesitated to get those J-pens as I got several rubbers cut to BTY/Darker size of 163mm x 13xmm already.
I don't think Tectonic is available any more but any BTY J-pen blades that are similar to Sardius will be the same feel.
I played on someone's, Darker 90 (10mm) J-pen with a Bryce. It is too fast to be controllable. I would prefer my Tectonic with Bryce or other slower but lighter rubbers with better control.
Now, I am thinking of a Stiga Titanium 5.4 that I got in C-pen and handshake. It would be interesting to see a J-pen version. I think Stiga won't make any J-pen.
This blade is very light with some vibration and thus feedback, and I think heavier rubbers can be used on both sides if a J-pen version is available.
I may be able to say more when I play long time on these two J-en BTY blades. There are advantages of both blades, one being light, the other being solid with good control.
These J-pens are just used in training but my main blade for competition is now the Stiga Titanium 5.4 C-pen with RPH at closer table.
Those J-blades are fast and powerful for off table plays.
RPH with J-pen can be more powerful than C-pen as I don't have to fear to throw away the blade with stronger back hand smash/loop. The index finger is stopped by the cork hand at front. For C-pen, it needs to be held tighter and affect the flexibility of the wrist and fingers.
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yuna
Super Member Joined: 04/13/2006 Location: Singapore Status: Offline Points: 217 |
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wua ! thks for the much feedback u've given ! its beri helpful for decision making.
today i've been thrashed by a 52 yr old j-pen holder (Hinoki one sided). craps! he's beri experience in returning my serves & give low energy balls back which is more difficult to attack he's BH is beri polished & consistent as well (rare). i'll be back when my BH is more fierce !! i'm beri inspired after seeing how the old timer plays the j-pen quick attack style!! wanna experience it again. craps. now i wanna get both the KTS & Violin j-pen RH. Arrrgh ..... i need more cash !! dams ... |
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Viscaria Tiffany
T-05 T-64 |
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elpmip
Super Member Joined: 04/18/2007 Status: Offline Points: 178 |
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Bought the Darker J Speed-90. It is a reverse J-pen meaning no cork to sand on rear side. There is no cork except on the handle. I have Donic Gallardo Sound on front and Donic F2 on rear. From spec, Gallardo Sound is slower in actual fact, it is faster than F2. Donic F2 has softer sponge and isn't as fast at Gallardo Sound.
The weight of this combo is just right. Not too heavy nor too light for me. The feel is very solid and is better at off table counter loop or smash.
I can now use a lot more powerful RPH off table than C-Pen blades I got. This J-pen blade is longer and have lower sweet spot than C-pen blades.
The thickness is 8.5mm rather than 9mm or 100mm in single sided Darker Speed 90. I guess using Darker Speed 90 with two rubbers would be too heavy.
The J Speed-90 is the best for me at the moment.
I may try ULC or other non-carbo composite blades later.
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aeoliah
Premier Member Joined: 11/18/2005 Location: Indonesia Status: Offline Points: 3215 |
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Isn't it a C-pen? Please treat this blade with extra care, because there had been two cases where J-Speed 90 (8,5 mm) developed a crack by itself.
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Member of the Single Ply Hinoki Club
Viscaria Super ALC C-Pen Rasanter C48 |
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