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Geospin Tacky vs Sriver |
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Posted: 02/27/2007 at 10:57pm |
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I've been using Sriver since I started to play table tennis, which is like 20 years ago, but out of that, probably only played few years with any decent frequency. I currently use J-Pen blade from Butterfly and play close to the table. I am able to beat most recreational players but in the club, about 1/3 can beat the crap out of me...
I've just got a new blade with Geospin Tacky black on FH of Dawei Matrix blade (got C-Pen blade this time) - thanks cole!. I tried it out for the first time today.
What was surprizing is that I actually didn't feel too much difference! I clearly feel it is not as bouncy, which was to be expected but I was able to drive the ball pretty much using the same motion as what I do with Sriver. My swing is more horizontal than vertical. After few games I was able to get most of the drives on the other side with pretty good accuracy. What I didn't get though, I feel, is more spin...
How could non-tacky fast rubber like Sriver play similar to tacky and slower rubber like Geospin Tacky black?
Or may be my technique is all messed up...
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Skippy
Super Member Joined: 02/22/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 282 |
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I dont always notice it in the feeling of my own shots, but it's easy to tell in the difficulty of the opponents to be able to block what I loop. When I move from Magic Carbon (similar to sriver) to Globe 999t looping with MC they block back just fine. Looping with 999t the ball flys much more often, and even when it isn't out it's usually up. Which is nice to play alot of higher balls with more frequency. Certainly get to dictate the pace easier.
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Xiom Zetro Quad
FH: Andro Hexer Max BH: Xiom Euro Vega Max |
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kenneyy88
Premier Member Joined: 01/06/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4074 |
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With geospin, I went more forward. I don't know which is more spinny, but it doesn't bounce off the rubber as much as others. The rubber creates the spin, so you have to produce the force.
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Swiff
Platinum Member Joined: 06/09/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 2587 |
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I've been using the Sriver G2 ever since i started. VERY nice rubber. Don't know how it compares to Geospin.
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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There may not be any less spin. If your loops have a higher throw angle, it's harder to block low. With low loop drives with the same amount of spin, it's easier to block low and might appear to have less spin.
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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Wait are you saying that the GeoTacky is giving you more spin, or less spin? The wording seems possibly ambiguous. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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Ksix
Super Member Joined: 12/03/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 395 |
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Geospin is a great rubber, but it's just too bloody slow without speed glue... |
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わが青春に悔なし
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GenomicsKnight
Gold Member Joined: 05/27/2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1962 |
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It's still slow even with speed glue
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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During my first play, I didn't feel any more spin on Geospin compare to Sriver L - felt about the same. I didn't feel any more loop but I do have to admit I wasn't paying attention to my opponents' returns. I play again later today so I'll experiment more.
As I found out, Geo was slower than Sriver but I think it was useable without any speed glue... I never used speed glue and don't plan to use it in the future.
I do have a question on the looping technique however - my looping skills may not be up to par. How do you get the ball to fly higher while keeping the ball on the table? When the ball has no spin or has top spin and I do hard vertical swing, I always hit a home run. Just about all of my drive clear the net by no more than few inches which probably indicates that they have more speed and less spin. This is the case for both Sriver and Geospin. As I mentioned before, my swing is already quite a bit forward even before the switch. I would really like to figure out how to return backspins more reliably by looping.
On the positive side, I was expected to play real bad with this blade first time around but still beat the same regulars I normally do...
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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I'm not sure exactly what you're doing, since you said you hit a topspin ball by swinging vertically (straight up?) which would make a very high ball. You would swing vertically for underspin, not no-spin or topspin. And yes it sounds like your hits are more speed than spin. Whenever you loop you have to keep a closed racket angle. Let's say you're loop swing is moving diagonally forward-up. Your racket face should be parallel to that. You might be opening the face too much, creating a flatter hit with less spin. You have to keep a closed racket face and just graze the ball. When you have loads of topspin, the ball will arc downward really quickly. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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I guess I'm not really explaining myself very well... Normally I hit more horizontally, starts near my waist and ends up near my head, may be a tad lower. Blade is probably at around 30 degree from the horizontal line, hence roughly parallel to the direction of travel as you mentioned above. When the ball has no spin or some top spin, it seems pretty easy to land it on the other side with decent power. When the ball has backspin, I tend to swing up as suggested in these forums. Unfortunately, only 30-40% of the time, I make it on the other side of the table on these shots. This is why I am experimenting with my swing right now... Hitting harder on my normal swing just produces faster travel speed without significant increase in the arc and this is driving me crazy.
Perhaps I am catching the ball too thick instead of glazing? I do hit the ball almost always at the top near the table and I noticed alot of loopers wait for it to sink further down even below the level of the table... Could this be the problem?
Thanks for your feedback...
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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For heavier underspin I like to let it sink before hitting it. If it's high enough though you can do a loop kill at the top of the bounce. But the issue of grazing the ball is different when you switch between tacky and non-tacky rubbers. Tacky rubbers generate spin more from the topsheet, whereas non-tacky rubbers require the ball to dig into the soft sponge to generate the spin. This is most noticeable when lifting heavy underspin balls. When I first tried non-tacky rubbers (Andro Quad 450), when I graze the heavy underspin balls, the ball would just drop down (I mean straight down, it didn't grip it at all, didn't move forward). That's because it was too much of a graze shot so the ball didn't dig into the sponge to grip. When I switched to tacky rubbers, I could graze anything easily. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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That's interesting, I would have thought it would be the other way round since tacky sheet would catch the ball and due to the backspin the rubber would force the ball to bounce back at a lower angle into the net...
I am getting more convinced that perhaps I am not grazing the ball enough (i.e. hitting too thick) hence not generating enough spin and end up with more speed... I should be able to lift the ball more and rely on the spin/arc to hit the other side...
My hard drive that clears about a foot above the net would never hit the other side of the table due to a lack of an arc. My drives are always very close to the net.
Perhaps it's just a matter of practice?
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pimpmyracket
Super Member Joined: 04/28/2006 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 391 |
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As long as the racket face angle is the same as your swing, you should get decent spin contact. It's when your racket face angle is open (and doesn't match your swing angle) that you will run into the too-much-speed-not-enough-spin problems. But for heavy underspin, make sure you're doing more of an upward lift than a forward drive, at least for now. Try letting the ball dip down a bit, then swing straight up, not forward at all. And the racket face angle would consequently be perfectly vertical. That should give it a stronger spin and a decent arc. Once you're confident with that, then you can experiment with more aggressive loops angled forward instead of straight up. |
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- pimpmyracket -
729 Dynasty Hinoki Carbon, FL Cream MRS - 2.2mm Stiga Innova - 2.0mm |
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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So it sounds like my current swing is already more friendly for tacky rubbers and I wasn't allowing the ball to dwell into Sriver's sponge. I do feel I graze even when I use Sriver. Hitting it flatter sure feels it will go even faster with less spin but I see your point. I will definitely try this out.
I will definitely watch out what angle I currently hit.
Once again I must have done forward swing since I tend to hit at the peak which is usually above the table. I'll try to wait longer and let it leave the table so that I can do more of vertical swing as you have suggested.
All of this makes sense - I hope it works in practice.
Thanks for all the suggestions!
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yogi_bear
Forum Moderator Joined: 11/25/2004 Location: Philippines Status: Offline Points: 7219 |
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if you compare sriver and geospin is like comparing a porche to a kia pride car
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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Which is Porsche and which is Kia Pride?
Price-wise, I know the answer but I don't think the quality difference is that pronounced. Sriver L was an easy rubber to play with, but I'm not sure if it is the rubber I want to stay on forever...
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yhbae01
Member Joined: 02/27/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 10 |
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After couple of days of TT playing I can finally feel the difference and start seeing the arc. I seem to be able to swing harder without hitting it long compare to Sriver. I still lack some speed on the backhand side (I use the same side of the rubber for both sides for now) but I do plan to learn rbp. I am happy with this choice and am becoming happier each day! |
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mozzy
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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My problem too, when using G999t6 compared with GS tacky, especially when the ball to hit is slow and over the table, so when using tacky rubbers and then non-tacky, a different technique is needed completely!
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Blade 729 Carbon
FH TG2 BH BFY Super Anti |
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mozzy
Super Member Joined: 11/22/2006 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 123 |
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Get a faster blade, i did, the GSpin tacky becomes even more dangerous, hits go lower over the net and my accuracy has improved too, going from 1.5 to 2.0 black and from LKT Instinct to Friendship Bomb, an awesome blade with great control!
Edit, the speed increase is great with the same or less effort!
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Blade 729 Carbon
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Ignarus
Member Joined: 06/11/2007 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 40 |
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I've played around with getting spin out of different rubber types and found a similar problem switching between a tacky rubber and a non-tacky rubber. While both were quite capable of generating spin, there was a difference in the technique I needed to get the results I was looking for.
Basically, when I play with tacky rubbers with high throw angles, I need to close the racquet a lot more and don't have to focus on "grazing" the ball as much. A less tacky rubber would not reward my angle play the same way, though - the spin is generated more by sinking the ball into the sponge and then moving the paddle in the direction of desired spin generation before the ball is ejected. It's more of a "grazing" stroke than an angled stroke (in my mind) because the tacky rubber's follow-through is much more in line with the direction of the ball's motion. I found that angle of impact was sufficient for getting spin out of a tacky rubber, but that I needed more movement while still keeping the paddle face relatively perpendicular to the direction of desired ball movement. I guess I'm trying to say that my experience with tacky and non-tacky rubbers leads me to believe that racquet angle is king for tacky rubbers and stroke angle is what gets it done with grippy, but non-tacky rubbers. Hope that's coherent - kinda tough to describe. Just realize that the sticky geospin is going to tolerate a much more closed racquet face for topspin and a more open face for backspin. I find that I can still hit with my geospin if I keep it relatively flat, but that I can rip enormous spin out of it by using an extreme angle on my stroke. |
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MMaze(Ten05/Outlaw)
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yhbae
Super Member Joined: 01/23/2007 Location: Canada Status: Offline Points: 117 |
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After playing for over 3 months it is quite apparent that my style does call for Chinese tacky rubbers. Serves have become much more potent (I seem win alot of points on the serves), and countering loop seem far easier than it was with Sriver (at least for me). I do play very close to the table, and am on offensive mode most of the time.
Very happy with this rubber. How long is this thing supposed to last? After 3 months, it still feels as good as when it was new.
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