|
|
How can serve like this be legal? |
Post Reply | Page <12 |
Author | ||||
APW46
Assistant Moderator Joined: 02/02/2009 Location: United Kingdom Status: Offline Points: 3331 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I suppose everyone has forgotten about finger-spin serves, invented by the Americans and deemed 'unplayable' before they were banned in 1937.
'Gallant knights of old ' my Ar$e, players did everything they could to win back then just as they do now.
|
||||
The Older I get, The better I was.
|
||||
Sponsored Links | ||||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Not every American player, be he or she of national or international caliber, used finger- or knucklespin serves before they were banned. Sol Schiff and Jimmy McClure were the foremost exponents of these types or serves, but neither was able to win a World Singles Championship relying on them. Buddy Blattner and Lou Pagliaro did not use fingerspin serves. Neither did Ruth Aarons, Jay Purves, or Emily? Fuller. Gallant knights (and noble ladies) of old is poetic license. And I've had my poetic license since 1978. The male and female table tennis players of the depression era of the 1930s were hardly gallant knights or noble ladies, just men and women trying to do what they did best under conditions which today's stars would not tolerate. Fingerspin and knucklespin serves should have been banned by the ITTF prior to 1937. While legal until banned, as were the hidden serves of the 1990s, they were a sharp practice that helped neither the popularity nor the image of the sport. Great finger- or knucklespinners like Schiff and McClure should have been permitted to demonstrate them before civilians at exhibitions where they would do no harm in national or international play. Please do not take leave of your arse. An arse can be a useful thing to have, like a brain, a smartphone, or a can of Falco Revolution No. 3. Edited by berndt_mann - 04/02/2016 at 11:14am |
||||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
The funny thing when Berndt talks about "back in the day we" its not his day. Also I am not as young as he seems to think. I was annihilated in 1972 by a Taiwanese guy whose serve was too good for me and whose third ball was strong and consistent. Serve has been important my wholebplayong life -- and his too. Remember Ruth Aaron's played before he was born.
|
||||
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Haha...classic line from a HB aficionado. Quite untrue, actually. It's like calling everyone who uses toilet paper a professional bathroom attendant. |
||||
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
||||
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
By the way Berndt...most of the cheapest pre-made bats used by these "hundreds of millions" of garage/basement players world-wide are not even hardbats anymore. Check them out at the sporting store near you. Stop living in the 70's.
|
||||
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
||||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
OK. Let's put this another way. If you are a 2.5 hacker at tennis, what sport are you playing?
And if you play on a piece of plywood on a sawhorse outside of Koza, Okinawa with wooden rackets uncovered with rubber, what sport do you play? It would be more accurate, I agree, to refer to these hundreds of millions as "ping pong" players, but the name of the sport that that play, or rather play at, is table tennis. |
||||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||||
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
At least I'd be rated first by an officially recognized governing body, and I won't play with spaghetti strings. Hardbatters love to play with 38mm balls, all green bats and 21pt. games, and they also claim the USATT or ITTF has no authority over their own domain like Ammon Bundy does.
Just a game with a semblance of the officially recognized sport of table tennis.
They are still called "ping pong" players in most parts of Asia, but they do not use hardbat ANYMORE. Edited by roundrobin - 04/02/2016 at 3:55pm |
||||
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
||||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Let's set the record straight before other contributors jump in to explain the 642 ways modern pros can serve illegally to the OP. I was not a practice partner of Ruth Aarons. That was Marcus Schussheim (aka Mark Matthews). I was not on a first name basis with Coleman Clark. I never met Victor Barna. I did shop at Jimmy McClure's Pla-Good Shop, 1718 Central Ave., Indianapolis Indiana when a student at Indiana University. I knew Marty Reisman for twenty years until his death in 2012. I met Johnny Leach at the 1992 World Vets' Championships and Ferenc Sido at the 1994 World Vets'. They were somewhat older than I, and since this was at a players' banquet I naturally did not ask either of them to have a knock-up with me. I did start playing competitively in the twilight era of American hardbat (early 1960s). As I've said before, my first mentor was Danny Vegh, a two-time National Doubles Champion and student of Tibor Hazi. This was in Cleveland, Ohio. At that time, virtually all of Cleveland's best players used hardbats. In 1964, disaster struck. Two English loopers came to Vegh's club to demonstrate the loop drive with sponge. Panic ensued. Players, including myself, switched to this strange new potent substance. I went in to the Army in April 1965 armed with a 3-ply Hock No. 74, a Cor du Buy Loop Drive shod with 1.5 mm BTY D-13, and a Stiga Alex Ehrlich plastered with Yasaka Cobra, somewhat thick, maybe 1.7 mm. I didn't go back to hardbat, though playing with it occasionally against John Liu, a classic penhold hitter who did have a bit of trouble with underspin. He and I shared either the No. 1 or No 2. positions at the Ohio State University. John would get slightly the better of me if I played with Sriver, pitting my all-round keep it in play topspin/underspin style against his 1971 three-ball kill. I watched Marty Reisman play at the 1997 National Championships. Reisman defeated, at age 67, Larry Hodges, himself a former two-time National Hardbat Champion and multiple time doubles hardbat champion with various partners. I then switched to hardbat, but I did it my way. I watched in slow motion, frame by frame, Ma Lin's rpb, until I could mimic that shot myself. It took about a year to get it down with a compact head 6-ply Chinese penhold SuperHock made for me by Don Varian. I don't wish to tire you all out with my amazing accomplishments as a two-wing topspinning/chopping hardbat player from 2000-2005, when injuries, essential tremor and a year long episode of unipolar depression took me out of competition. And yes Baal, I do know that you are not a young man. May we all live a hundred more years. By then table tennis will be played by computers and supercentenerians like ourselves can content ourselves in our superannuated dotage with plain old cheap old hardbats. Edited by berndt_mann - 04/03/2016 at 11:05am |
||||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||||
smackman
Assistant Moderator Joined: 07/20/2009 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 3264 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
yes yes have a little rest and let others go back to the thread subject
|
||||
Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
||||
Tassie52
Gold Member Joined: 10/09/2010 Location: Australia Status: Offline Points: 1318 |
Post Options
Thanks(1)
|
|||
Somewhere in their convoluted thinking, people think there's a point at which it magically stops being one thing and starts being another. And that's bunkum. I've been a sports tragic all my life and the standard at which I've played has never been anything much beyond average (marathon running the only exception at "above average"). Every sporting team I've ever joined, the players were playing the same game as the superstars of that particular sport. Even when a couple of handsfull of teachers used to meet after school and knock a volleyball around, we were still playing volleyball. This is true for table tennis as well. On Tuesday nights, we play competition in three grades. At the lowest level, we have some players who are real beginners who range from woeful to genuinely embarrassing, but each and every one of them is playing table tennis. Even single one of USA's millions of basement players plays table tennis. They say, "Let's have a game of ping pong." They may not know the rules, they may not have the right equipment, they may not care about scoring, but they're still playing the same sport we are.
|
||||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Amen, Tassie52. Amen. Well said. You and all your mates who play the sport are table tennis players, regardless of the equipment you use. Long life to you and to them, and do not let, as I'm sure you won't, the snobbery that can infect some contributors to this forum persuade you otherwise.
Cheers, Edited by berndt_mann - 04/02/2016 at 7:52pm |
||||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||||
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Sorry Tassie, but your argument is pretty asinine. When a bunch of kids are kicking dried cow dung they aren't playing soccer. They think they are. That's the difference.
|
||||
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
||||
JacekGM
Platinum Member Joined: 02/17/2013 Location: USA Status: Offline Points: 2356 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
+100 ... and so we have another (this one i relatively peacefully developing) thread about legality of serves. As Victor rightly mentioned, real life verifies this topic pretty well. Another thing is, pros just cannot play serves like sissies - pretty obvious to me. The Stefan Fegerl thread comes to mind, and frankly I was back then surprised by the popular and forcefully expressed "outrage"... as if the authors of some posts were never offenders of the same law. Therefore, again: please just remember all this as you drive on a highway, need to be on time, time is short, and you accidentally exceed a little the speed limit. Hopefully nobody calls foul...
|
||||
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.
|
||||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Check out, JacekGM, the Sports Interrogation--Real Service Rules animated post by DTopSpirit (Greg Letts). It's drop dead bust a rib funny, and grounded firmly on the solid bedrock of table tennis fact.
Edited by berndt_mann - 04/02/2016 at 10:04pm |
||||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||||
berndt_mann
Gold Member Joined: 02/02/2015 Location: Tucson, Arizona Status: Offline Points: 1719 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Just curious, roundrobin. Did you acquire the coordination necessary to play the sport of table tennis successfully by first kicking and possibly heading dried cow dung with your playmates while pretending to play soccer? Otherwise, how did you come to be acquainted with the childhood pastimes of kids and cow dung? Perhaps the poor little perishers could not afford a real soccer ball so that cow dung, plentiful where they lived, was their only alternative. |
||||
bmann1942
Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
||||
roundrobin
Premier Member Joined: 10/02/2008 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 4708 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Haha Berndt...I am even more curious to know if your count of "hundreds of millions" of table tennis players include drunk college kids playing beer pong half-naked? There are a few million of them doing it right now in their Spring Break:
*And Tassie, I am sure you count the little school bully who challenged his 2nd-grade classmates to a fist fight as practicing the sport of "boxing", or the huge kid who pushed everybody down in grade school a legit "sumo wrestler". Edited by roundrobin - 04/02/2016 at 11:42pm |
||||
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986. Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association. My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red |
||||
PointEngineer
Member Joined: 03/16/2016 Location: uk Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
I agree with this view point mostly. However I also like the idea that high levels of spin are not part the game. Gaining advantage via misunderstood spin achieved through hidden deception or confusion (either via tricky/illegal serve tactics or via very different rubber surfaces on a combination bat or slightly wetting the ball etc) though is in my view an ugly part of the sport.
|
||||
Baal
Forum Moderator Joined: 01/21/2010 Location: unknown Status: Offline Points: 14336 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Again this (ending point with 3 ball attack) has been true since I played my first tournament 44 years ago.
|
||||
ahsq
Silver Member Joined: 04/07/2015 Location: The flushing Y Status: Offline Points: 527 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
i have seen more devious serves. but this is good to know
|
||||
FS:
Xiom Vega Pro ST 85 grams $80 shipped Donic Waldner Senso Carbo JO shaped ST $40 shipped |
||||
PointEngineer
Member Joined: 03/16/2016 Location: uk Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
Just seen a typo in there. I did not mean to have the "not", and it makes no sense with it. So it should have said "I also like the idea that high levels of spin are part the game". Apologies for any confusion.
|
||||
icontek
Premier Member This is FPS Doug Joined: 10/31/2006 Location: Maine, US Status: Offline Points: 5222 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
If we can agree that they are to prevent advantage of the server over the receiver by deception, umpires might benefit from viewing angles that match the receiver. |
||||
PointEngineer
Member Joined: 03/16/2016 Location: uk Status: Offline Points: 74 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
|||
As a left-hander I face this problem all the time. As most players serve from their back hand side of the table with their forehand and an opposite handed player typically receives standing along that same side of the table the view of the ball is more likely to be obscured by the server's body. Since a left hander plays right hander's most of the time it is common for a lefty to have visibility loss - I know I frequently cannot see the ball at contact point, and it is not clear for the umpire that visibility might not be adequate. The rules are a bit bizarrely written at present anyway since in theory the receiver could be standing anywhere and thus could always be somewhere with no visibility.
|
||||
Post Reply | Page <12 |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum |
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer
MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd. |