How should I Coach someone in a match?

Isn't it funny that AHex always deflects the question about his playing experience ? He just posts more questions.

NextLevel wrote: AgentHEX wrote: Are they? 2200+.   Andy Wiggins has spoken about his history. Pingpongpaddy has played internationally so he is likely understating his level of achievement. If you have comparable table tennis achievements, feel free to share.

I hope you realize this is a trick question. Someone who's ostensibly good level and still doesn't understand having goals for developing players in match and to coach to those goals is about as embarrassing as teaching for a living yet failing to grasp basic pedagogy. This theme's been repeated enough that it really shouldn't work anymore.

BTW, you really shouldn't group APW with the rest. He actually cares about grasping what's going on in the conversation.

Is there something about the previous post that's hard to understand? Here we go again.

Let me explain. Your reply doesn't address the reasonably specific points made in my post, which is not in keeping with someone who understands what is being said, thus my query if anything in particular was difficult.

For an example, consider APW's posts esp in the other thread which either contend the points made with arguments. Compare this to whatever the hell's going on here.

What's hard for me to understand is what I've been re-interating is basically true for just about any sort of competitive endeavor. In fact, I'm straining to think of anything, sports or otherwise for which all the above + the other thread isn't rather obvious. IOW, in order for someone to deny any of this they literally must have very limited understanding of anything competitive, yet still act incredulous as if this isn't embarrassing for anyone claiming "experience". This sounds a lot like a philosopher who claims he knows more than everyone else because he understands philosophy and argues that before one can understand anything else, he must understand philosophy.

Again, how does this in any way address not understanding how TT works?

You waste a lot of time trying to argue about whether people understand things that their results either show these people already do, or if they do not, their results show that these things may not be as important as you estimate them to be. Not only do you do it repeatedly, but you are rude when doing so, which is extremely offputting.

Results do not necessary imply understanding. A good jr with far less "experience" and play will still beat these guys, so what is the takeaway there?

As to whether understanding matters, I would argue it rather does for coaching compared to playing. The jr above might well make an even worse coach.

Finally, it's generally not contentious what said "do you know who I am" attitude deserves in return.

The question is whether any of this has a significant practical implication for how an amateur hobbyist with limited time should approach the sport.

It's most important for those with limited time/effort to understand what they're doing.


Edited by AgentHEX - 09/29/2013 at 5:50pm

pingpongpaddy wrote: You seem to resent people stating that they are qualified yet

Yes I mock people who feel they're qualified yet fail to grasp simple things.

Its interesting that in the "Beginner Group Coach thread" you advised the coach that he wasn't good enough and that he should go get somebody stronger.

Yes, a 1200 player is likely to have poor TT form himself and thus in poor position to teach this important basic thing to students. This shouldn't be controversial.

you said that it didn't look good for a 1200 guy to be advising a 1000 class. So how do you justify a '1569.71' guy like yourself putting yourself forward as knowing better than a bunch of guys rated 2000 and more? Shouldn't we characterise you as a big head?

Personally I would've thought playing with my shiny metal ass is the more questionable part of the sig, but regardless this is a different sort of issue as reiterated above. Knowing better seems like a pretty straightforward case here. To be clear, I'm not claiming any sort of advanced knowledge, just that the understanding of some are quite poor.


Edited by AgentHEX - 09/29/2013 at 7:02pm

pingpongpaddy wrote: AgentHex wrote: Yes I mock people who feel they're qualified yet fail to grasp simple things. That is just based on false assumptions on your part. As when you mention preprepared game plans, and then act as such a thing could only come from you. when in fact this is a standard part of any coaches method.

Speaking of assumptions, why would you assume this when I've claimed no such thing?

On service return most coaches I know would agree that if a player has a problem reading spin serves, It is impractical to deal with it with complicated instruction.

Who said anything about complicated instruction? Sometime a coach is just in a better position to observe how a serve is tricky or misread.

So we have as part of general match preparation, that to deal with a difficult the player should "Hit through the spin" (i hope you know what this means) with a good margin for error, to the centre of the table. This is the kind of typical back story to teaching noobie match players.

So this is only about coaching noobs who don't understand spin now?

[Quote]Because we can deal with serve return with that kind of short phrase, it gives time for other advice or confidence boosting that is required. Of course sometimes the instructions fail to hit the spot. But over time coach and pupil develop an efficient dialog The general tenor of your remarks implies rather insincerely I think, that we are ignorant of this kind of thing but I can assure you that we are up to speed

No, the general tenor in my remark is astonishment that advice from self-described experts misses out on the most important aspect of coaching in a match: coach to the game plan, not vague general platitudes. A student focused on what he has to do will be more calm & collected and these issues sort themselves out for people who have a handle on the situation.

Btw, please try to avoid colors on random parts of the text since it makes inline quotes more confusing.


Edited by AgentHEX - 09/29/2013 at 7:50pm

Compared to specific pointers about what the student is currently working on, I struggle to find advice by others in this thread that isn't so broad as to be uninteresting.

agenthex wrote:  So we have as part of general match preparation, that to deal with a difficult the player should "Hit through the spin" (i hope you know what this means) with a good margin for error, to the centre of the table. This is the kind of typical back story to teaching noobie match players. [/COLOR] So this is only about coaching noobs who don't understand spin now?

You are losing the thread. Noobies in respect of spin, we teach about spin.
If they are noobies in other respects we teach about that too! Surely you've got the idea by now.

pingpongpaddy wrote: agenthex wrote:  So we have as part of general match preparation, that to deal with a difficult the player should "Hit through the spin" (i hope you know what this means) with a good margin for error, to the centre of the table. This is the kind of typical back story to teaching noobie match players. [/COLOR] So this is only about coaching noobs who don't understand spin now? You are losing the thread. Noobies in respect of spin, we teach about spin. If they are noobies in other respects we teach about that too! Surely you've got the idea by now.

I have no idea what you're arguing.

Perhaps true if you have low enough standards for useful and informative.

jt99sf wrote: AgentHEX wrote: Perhaps true if you have low enough standards for useful and informative. http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22290&start=15 Now he's steam shoveling on two continents.

NextLevel wrote: jt99sf wrote: AgentHEX wrote: Perhaps true if you have low enough standards for useful and informative. http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=22290&start=15 Now he's steam shoveling on two continents. Great catch, JT.  He actually reveals his rating/level there.

No one knows if he's telling the truth. Perhaps he's the CNT's secret hitting partner.

AgentHEX wrote: My level's never been much of a secret except to mock Dunning-Kruger posterkids. You know, the sort who mostly rely on people-drama instead of substance and then blame others when they look incompetent.

You are world class when it comes to people drama on this forum. You just don't get it.

pingpongpaddy wrote: NextLevel wrote: Pingpongpaddy has played internationally so he is likely understating his level of achievement. If you have comparable table tennis achievements, feel free to share. Hum Embarrassing!!! I better set this straight, sorry to disappoint, but I have not played internationally, I have a strong interest in training,tactics & strategy in most, especially racket sports Like Wiggy, I have had a life in TT and enjoyed every minute of it. I try and pass on what knowledge I have gained, and am happy to help anyone who wants to be helped. I am not as good as wiggy by any means but in enthusiasm for TT I am pushing him close !!

Thanks. I apologize for the error and appreciate the corrections.

@OP,  I hope this is helpful for you:

jt99sf wrote: @OP,  I hope this is helpful for you: http://www.tabletennismaster.com/profiles/blogs/most-common-mistakes-made-by-beginners

I appreciate the thought, but that's a little...rudimentary. Are you sure you didn't mean to send that to Hex? 

AgentHEX wrote: BMonkey wrote: jt99sf wrote: @OP,  I hope this is helpful for you: http://www.tabletennismaster.com/profiles/blogs/most-common-mistakes-made-by-beginners I appreciate the thought, but that's a little...rudimentary. Are you sure you didn't mean to send that to Hex?  No, he meant to send it to someone who he feels is a worse player.

I'm glad to see you agree with me that he meant to send it to you.