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inside out pendulum

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Reinecke View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/07/2010 at 2:37pm
Wow TBS, great serve, almost perfect. I used to do the reverse pendulum with a grip like Boll's but I've been trying it with a regular grip. I'll upload a video as soon as I've practiced it more. (maybe a week from now)
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TBS9x View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBS9x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2010 at 1:54pm
hehe, I think I can make the serve with normal grip now, the Kong Linghui version, I can upload sometimes if anyone wants :D 
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Video: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u-p2VHaiDk
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bHoFRj_oU
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnqlW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cole_ely Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2010 at 2:02pm
I think for everybody it feels very akward to do an rpb.  Choking up into walder helps a lot.  But even then, it takes repetition, but then suddenly you'll kind of have this moment where you realize it feels more comfortable.  At least that's how it was for me.
 
It reminds me a lot of learning to play (for me bass) guitar.  At first it's really akward just having your hand up and under.  Then one day you realize you aren't even thinking about that.
 
The moral of the story is, just keep working on it and you'll get it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/26/2010 at 7:18pm
Originally posted by TBS9x TBS9x wrote:

hehe, I think I can make the serve with normal grip now, the Kong Linghui version, I can upload sometimes if anyone wants :D�


Please do! I have been practicing it with normal grip too and am pretty good at it I'd like to see someone else's version of it. Also do you know of a video with KLH doing the serve? I've never found one....

@cole
do you mean reverse penhold backhand? We are talking about a reverse pendulum serve.... As for choking up and holding with just the thumb and forefinger like most players do, I used to do it. But it was just not possible for me to get as much backspin as I can on my normal grip reverse pendulum.

edit:@cole not @casey
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBS9x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 1:28am
Blade: Joo Se Hyuk
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Video: - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6u-p2VHaiDk
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bHoFRj_oU
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnqlW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 2:24am
notice how the ball barely leaves the blade as they generate spin, that's how they can keep it so short!!! i wish i can do that =/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dabookerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 6:16pm
One thought that helped me get this serve was to think of almost trying t throw my paddle like a Frisbee. 

I don't know about the ghost serve with this motion.  Whenever I try to really spin one up I always get some crazy right to left sidespin. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 6:53pm
I don't get what is the ghost serve.
 
about inside out pendulum:
Originally posted by dabookerman dabookerman wrote:

One thought that helped me get this serve was to think of almost trying t throw my paddle like a Frisbee.
...
I totally agree on that and I want to add that just like in a frisbee stroke the quick backswing at the very last moment and resulting spring effect is essential for more spin.
 
Also the frisbee analogy is very helpful for bh loop.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 6:53pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unCoKMQ7H0o
Is that a good explanation of the ghost serve?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote johnny89atc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 8:31pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unCoKMQ7H0o
Is that a good explanation of the ghost serve?


Yes...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/27/2010 at 8:54pm
Originally posted by fatt fatt wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unCoKMQ7H0o
Is that a good explanation of the ghost serve?
In my opinion, none of the videos are really "good" explanations other than the Ma Lin himself ones. Most of the amateurs are using non-tournament quality tables and they usually play much MUCH slower and don't have as much rebound as 1" top tournament tables like the ones Ma Lin serves on in this vid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_kKWeVREwY and this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v8advrudYZs though even among tournament quality tables they play at different speeds.
 
The other thing that most of the amatuer videos seem to focus on is the ball rolling back to the net rather than the quality of the serve when it matters: the first two bounces on your opponent's side. Often they bounce way too high and slow across the net and the trajectory is horrible. One of the high level players put it well when he told me that underspin serves should "skid" rather than bounce. That is more of a trajectory related thing and I found a couple of illustrations of different trajectories to show what most amateurs do and what ma lin does (moreso). First is the typical beginner to intermediate underspin serve bounce type; It's high slow and easily pushed back or more advanced players will attack it. Like this:
 
 
A skidding bounce should be more like the red line here:
When it has a more flat trajectory and more speed in the first two bounces on your opponent's side it will be harder to return for a few reasons: it has more energy (to get a flatter trajectory you have to put more power into your swing while keeping a grazing contact and this gives you more speed and more spin),  the opponent has less time and it has a better trajectory. Focus on making those first two bounces on their side have the best quality possible and don't worry if it slides off the end instead of stopping.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dabookerman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2010 at 12:03am
Very true analysis.  Ma generates a much tighter spin and a flatter trajectory causing his first bounce on the opponent's side to shoot backward. 

That flatter trajectory is also the key to getting the maximum backspin off of the second bounce. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tpgh2k Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2010 at 12:47am
in my opinion, bounce height is everything. if you keep that tight, then it's really hard for most people to return aggressively.

now if it's spinny, then it's even harder to return well with it.

that's just what i think though...
www.youtube.com/gsutabletennis
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBS9x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/28/2010 at 12:26pm
okay, I've made the video, hope you guys will enjoy ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnqlWIbLmo
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- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bHoFRj_oU
-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYnqlW
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2010 at 2:22pm
Thanks TBS9x, another great video! I now have bronchitis and a sinus infection so I can't make my video yet, but I will.

Did you find it easier to put underspin on the ball with a regular grip doing reverse pendulum? I certainly do. It was comforting to see Kong doing it too
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote TBS9x Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2010 at 4:14pm
I think it is actually easier to put underspin but I think its harder to make topspin !? But I use the boll's grip more so it's more comfortable with me, I make less mistake with that grip. 
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- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7bHoFRj_oU
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2010 at 4:22pm
On another side note: check out this vid of Ma Long service training.
 
 
His services starting at 1:10 have such good deception. I'm jealous Cry
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote spitfire Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2010 at 4:51pm
his last two shots are great
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reinecke Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2010 at 4:53pm
Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

On another side note: check out this vid of Ma Long service training.



His services starting at 1:10 have such good deception. I'm jealous Cry


I like his serve here at 3:33, it is crazy looking

Obviously it was no match for Boll though lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BMonkey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/29/2010 at 5:18pm
Originally posted by Reinecke Reinecke wrote:

Originally posted by BMonkey BMonkey wrote:

On another side note: check out this vid of Ma Long service training.
 


 

His services starting at 1:10 have such good deception. I'm jealous Cry


I like his serve here at 3:33, it is crazy looking

Obviously it was no match for Boll though lol
He messed it up (that's why he stood up immediately) but it does look crazy.
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