Jim Butler vs Kunal Chodri (2014 Nationals final)

TTFrenzy wrote: Guys everyone is entitled to an opinion. My "high level" player standards maybe much lower or higher than your standards its only a matter of perspective.  If a top100 player see this match he would probably say I can destroy those guys without even thinking tactics their level is low. Obviously he is judging from his own personal perspective and that is not insulting. I play in 2nd division league in Thessaloniki, Greece (its the lowest league lol , my team cant relegate any lower even if we wanted to) and I play against players that can easily stand in A1 division league (highest league) and against players that are so lousy they should not compete (again this is my personal opinion only) Everything is a matter of perspective. I see many people give too much attention on the ranking lists and points. Rankings are just an indication! They cant depict the true capabilities of a player There are some (at least they are very few) players in Greece that reached even top 80 just because they selected to play only easy matches against weaker opponents and brag about their ranking list.  There are also youngsters ranked #400 that can destroy those players but they didnt have the chance to do so and they cant climb the rankings easily because they only play 6-7 matches per year only.  Last year there was a tournament for all northern greece held in thessaloniki. 50 high level players enlisted themselves because there was a small prize money. Those "top80" players didnt even show up cause they knew they were just going to lose their participation money, getting sodomized by everyone really bad. I hope you get my point :)

Everyone is entitled to opinions, including stupid ones. How often have we seen people watch a guy with long pips or anti and wonder why his game is effective, then get destroyed by him at the table? But his rating was high, even if hos game looked unimpressive.

A rating combines public information. Like stock price, it can be wrong, but it contains information. It is better than watching one match and saying that the players are low level. And I don't mind Greek top 20 saying the match is not
top 200 quality, though ITTF rankings will tell you that. What I don't like is his assumption that he knows enough about USA to talk about our table tennis and that it needs to be fixed.

He should know better than to judge players from one match. There was a woman who came to one of our tournaments (NA Teams). She was a penholder and coach. Her team wanted to use her to get high seed but when she was rated on video, they said she pushes too much and should be rated 1900. That woman went undefeated and came out 2300+. He beat a 2300 player 3-0. In all her matches, she was bored.

Anyone can look at video and say that this player is this or that. But when you actually play them, you see another side of their game which the opponent suppressed.

No one is saying that this is top 200 ITTF or high level. But to compare these players with all the info on them to #1000 in France is just stupid. Any player who has competed in ranked tournaments should know better. The game might look slow, but it doesn't mean that there are no reasons for this. This is the first time they are playing each other and I am sure I'd the match is repeated, at least one player will play differently.

TTFrenzy,

Butler beat Waldner in the Swedish league. Not friendly match.

Like I explained, the air in Vegas is thin and makes the ball travel fast. The new ball is slower as well. All the top US citizens competed with the exception of the over 50s and Adam Hugh, so maybe you want the foreign nationals to compete as well.

US talent was mostly foreigners with a few exceptions after the 90s until the ITTF changed rules on what tournaments one can compete in and upto what age you can play in ITTF major events while changing nationality. So now, the US has to develop its own talent. It will take a while but having Kanak in semis last year and Kunal this year and noting that neither made the junior boys team gives you an idea of bow much the pool is growing. Of course, whether they will still play after they are college age is the big question.

Both players were likely extremely nervous - Kunal having a chance to be the youngest US champion in a full event anud to change his life narrative and Butler getting back to the top of the US after his retirement and comeback. But like I said. The quality of the match itself is no reason to start making ridiculous statements about how strong these players are.

Some of our top juniors also made fun of these matches including the Butler semifinal. None of them went so far as to say that these are 2100 players because they obviously know much better.

This is a conversation w/o conclusion, don't  forget some guy from Africa starts beating Chinese players. What?.

Kunal has good backhand in general but not as near as explosive or accurate as  Butler's . So during the game it was a weakness not a strong weapon. FH to FH kunal was faster and more consitent, butler couldnt countertopspin FH to FH  so he blocked most of the times. Kunal didnt take advantage of it

takethat wrote: I saw a match when Ma Long was coming up, against Persson,  Swede took the game to the backhand, beat the crap out of Ma. At the end of the game the coach instructed Ma, go forehand or die (don't know chinese ,but good at signing) He did, and won .Don't play their strength, play yours (if you can)

NextLevel wrote: Both players were likely extremely nervous - Kunal having a chance to be the youngest US champion in a full event anud to change his life narrative and Butler getting back to the top of the US after his retirement and comeback.

Kunal would have been the youngest US men's singles champion, period. A couple of months younger than Michael Landers when he won in 2009.

I know that only 1% of Jimmy's success was due to equipment, but an EJ has to ask...

takethat wrote: I saw a match when Ma Long was coming up, against Persson,  Swede took the game to the backhand, beat the crap out of Ma. At the end of the game the coach instructed Ma, go forehand or die (don't know chinese ,but good at signing) He did, and won .Don't play their strength, play yours (if you can)

Edited by jrscatman - 12/27/2014 at 6:47pm

takethat wrote: here is some free advice." No one cares"Equipment, coaching, one milli second after the last point,it is gone forgotten,unless, world championship,etc.throw everything you have into the match, let them take you out on a stretcher, for you like me it is only table tennis match

stephan coaches at the other club,in San Jose, Top Spin, I am sure the kid plays in the Indian club in San Jose

i am such a racist,feth should have coached him then,though feth's club is filled with old chinese champions

takethat wrote: sub text of Arnold is me me, as it should be , he is right,  its you and your racket. Schlager, after the 2003 worlds, was asked if he knew he was one point from losing. He said NO, he plays one point at a time,that's self focus . He was asked why does he stare down the opponent,  before he serves , he said, let them think you have a plan,me me me.

jrscatman wrote: I was wondering why he had Chinese coach and not Stefan Feth. I don't know how long that coach has been in the US, but I think the Chinese coaching mentality is different from Western coaching style. Not sure if effective for kids born in the west.

Li Zhenshi has been in the US for over 20 years - still not "American" enough? He actually coached the US team with Jim Butler back in 1995 when they beat France.

viva wrote: Will leave this here: link : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEJA3vFkfLk

That was an amazing tribute to Jimmy Butler. I lived in Houston from '84 to '88 and I used to play against Kenny Owens and his son Eric. Kenny was always massaging someone on the sidelines and I am just impressed with how he was able to help Jimmy.

Edited by AcudaDave - 12/29/2014 at 10:05am