Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - JOOLA Global Championships
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

JOOLA Global Championships

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
Author
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:39am
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.

As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it.  Your position is understandable and principled, but I hope you do acknowledge that what I just wrote is factually based - a lot of TV commentary and fan opinion that helps support the sport's popularity is based on the very things you are uncomfortable with.  Donn is not one of those reporters, but what he wrote is par for the course for criticizing an athlete, and the kind of pushback he is getting is the exactly the same kind those journalists do.  The idea that it is none of our business is a bit rich on a TT forum.  The kind of conversation going on on this thread is exactly what a fan forum does.


Edited by NextLevel - 09/06/2022 at 11:40am
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
Sponsored Links


Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:46am
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Since you said China and Japan and nor Korea or Hong Kong or Chinese Taipei, you are confident that those higher ranked players would beat players from these countries?

The point is not that they aren't capable of one somewhat high point result, especially in the absence of lots of competition or with a good draw.  The point is whether they would be as highly ranked as they are without the continental bonus.  If one used an ELO based system like the old system or ratings central, would these players be top 10?  And does pointing this out make someone toxic?

And I would add Hugo and Quadri to this list as well.  And I am not arguing that Dang or Jorgic or Polcanova or Diaz are undeserving in some significant sense.  I am saying that this is what people usually mean by undeserving.

I was curious. /s

Top 20
6 Hayata 2710-500+105=2315, highest point SCT 600
7 DHK 1670-90+5=1585, highest point SCT 420
8->13 Han Ying 1580-500+5=1085, highest point CCUP 500
10->14 Polcanova 1465-500+35=1000, highest point CC 500
11->17 Diaz 1355-500+35=890, highest point CC 500
12->9 YXX 1285-100+55=1240, highest point CT 400
13->18 Mittelham 1230-500+5=735, highest point CCUP 500
17->19 Shan Xiaona 970-350+25=645, highest point CC 350
19->20 Takahashi 945-350+45=640, highest point CC 350

| 1  | SYS         | 5770 | 1  | SYS         | 5770 |
| 2 | CM          | 5575 | 2 | CM          | 5575 |
| 3 | WMY        | 4710 | 3 | WMY        | 4710 |
| 4 | WYD        | 4220 | 4 | WYD        | 4220 |
| 5 | Ito        | 2905 | 5 | Ito        | 2905 |
| 6 | Hayata      | 2710 | 6 | Hayata      | 2315 |
| 7 | DHK        | 1670 | 7 | DHK        | 1585 |
| 8 | Han Ying    | 1085 | 9 | Ishikawa    | 1575 |
| 9 | Ishikawa    | 1575 | 12 | YXX        | 1240 |
| 10 | Polcanova   | 1000 | 14 | Kihara      | 1225 |
| 11 | Diaz        | 890 | 15 | JJH        | 1225 |
| 12 | YXX        | 1285 | 16 | FTW        | 1099 |
| 13 | Mittelham   | 735 | 8 | Han Ying    | 1085 |
| 14 | Kihara      | 1225 | 10 | Polcanova   | 1000 |
| 15 | JJH        | 1225 | 18 | Hirano      | 960 |
| 16 | FTW        | 1099 | 20 | CXT        | 900 |
| 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 | 11 | Diaz        | 890 |
| 18 | Hirano      | 960 | 13 | Mittelham   | 735 |
| 19 | Takahashi   | 640 | 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 |
| 20 | CXT        | 900 | 19 | Takahashi   | 640 |

Fascinating - thanks.  Easy enough to do one for the men's as well? Big smileBig smileLOL
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 12:52pm
Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html
Top 20
5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600
6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400
8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500
9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500
10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700
13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500
14->16 Boll 1610-500+0=1110, highest point WTTC 700
15->14 Aruna 1565-350+70=1285, highest point CC 350
16->19 CCY 1365-350+55=1070, highest point CS 350/CC 350
17->18 Karlsson 1230-175+35=1090, highest point GS 350
19->17 Kallberg 1145-90+45=1100, highest point CT 400
20 Pitchford 1045-90+25=980, highest point CF 265

|  With continental result   |   W/O continental result   |
|----|----------------|------|----|----------------|------|
| 1 | FZD            | 6900 | 1 | FZD            | 6900 |
| 2 | ML             | 3700 | 2 | ML             | 3700 |
| 3 | LJK            | 3085 | 3 | LJK            | 3085 |
| 4 | Miwa's brother | 3045 | 4 | Miwa's brother | 3045 |
| 5 | Calderano      | 2920 | 5 | Calderano      | 2490 |
| 6 | Moregard       | 2800 | 6 | Moregard       | 2465 |
| 7 | LYJ            | 2145 | 7 | LYJ            | 2145 |
| 8 | Jorgic        | 2145 | 11 | WCQ            | 1910 |
| 9 | Qiu Dang       | 2095 | 12 | LGY            | 1780 |
| 10 | Ovtcharov      | 2015 | 8 | Jorgic        | 1750 |
| 11 | WCQ            | 1910 | 10 | Ovtcharov      | 1665 |
| 12 | LGY            | 1780 | 9 | Qiu Dang       | 1640 |
| 13 | Franziska      | 1750 | 13 | Franziska      | 1305 |
| 14 | Boll           | 1610 | 15 | Aruna          | 1285 |
| 15 | Aruna          | 1565 | 18 | LJH            | 1220 |
| 16 | CCY            | 1365 | 14 | Boll           | 1110 |
| 17 | Karlsson       | 1230 | 19 | Kallberg       | 1100 |
| 18 | LJH            | 1220 | 17 | Karlsson       | 1090 |
| 19 | Kallberg       | 1145 | 16 | CCY            | 1070 |
| 20 | Pitchford      | 1045 | 20 | Pitchford      | 980 |


https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_WS.html
Top 50
6 Hayata 2710-500+105=2315, highest point SCT 600
7 DHK 1670-90+5=1585, highest point SCT 420
8->12 Han Ying 1580-500+5=1085, highest point CCUP 500
10->13 Polcanova 1465-500+35=1000, highest point CC 500
11->17 Diaz 1355-500+35=890, highest point CC 500
12->9 YXX 1285-100+55=1240, highest point CT 400
13->26 Mittelham 1230-500+5=735, highest point CCUP 500
16->14 FTW 1099-100+0=999, highest point SCT 420
17->27 Shan Xiaona 970-350+25=645, highest point CC 350
19->28 Takahashi 945-350+45=640, highest point CC 350
23->39 Fu Yu 860-350+4=514, highest point CCUP 350
24 Yuan Jia Nan 845-90+19=774, highest point GS 350
26->22 Sawettabut 835-45+15=805, highest point WTTC 175
28->29 Matelova 805-175+8=638, highest point CT 400
30->44 SYB 774-350+15=439, highest point CC 350
31->outside top 50 Solja 770-500+0=270, highest point CC 500
33->30 Szocs 760-175+35=620, highest point WTTC 175
34->40 Samara 670-175+4=499, highest point SCT 210
35->33 SHW 665-90+0=575, highest point WTTC 350
36->41 Lily Zhang 660-175+10=495, highest point CC 175
37->34 Ni Xia Lian 655-90+8=573, highest point CT 280
38->42 Pesotska 655-175+5=485, highest point SCT 210
39->outside top 50 Goda 626-500+2=128, highset point CCUP 500
42->46 Winter 570-175+7=402, highest point CC 175
43->36 Batra 550-20+10=540, highest point CT 140
44->37 Balazova 545-45+35=535, highest point FEE 150
46->outside top 50 Mikhailova 523-350+0=173, highest point CCUP 350
47->outside top 50 Alhodaby 520-500+0=20, highest point CC 500
49->43 Bergstrom 510-90+20=440, highest point CT 140
50->outside top 50 Meshref 475-175+5=305, highest point CCUP 175
51->50 Shao Jieni 450-90+10=370, highest point CC 90
54->47 Zhang Mo 415-20+4=399, highest point OG 175


| With continental result | W/O continental result |
|----|--------------|------|----|--------------|------|
| 1 | SYS          | 5770 | 1 | SYS          | 5770 |
| 2 | CM           | 5575 | 2 | CM           | 5575 |
| 3 | WMY          | 4710 | 3 | WMY          | 4710 |
| 4 | WYD          | 4220 | 4 | WYD          | 4220 |
| 5 | Ito          | 2905 | 5 | Ito          | 2905 |
| 6 | Hayata       | 2710 | 6 | Hayata       | 2315 |
| 7 | DHK          | 1670 | 7 | DHK          | 1585 |
| 8 | Han Ying     | 1580 | 9 | Ishikawa     | 1575 |
| 9 | Ishikawa     | 1575 | 12 | YXX          | 1240 |
| 10 | Polcanova    | 1465 | 14 | Kihara       | 1225 |
| 11 | Diaz        | 1355 | 15 | JJH          | 1225 |
| 12 | YXX          | 1285 | 8 | Han Ying     | 1085 |
| 13 | Mittelham    | 1230 | 10 | Polcanova    | 1000 |
| 14 | Kihara       | 1225 | 16 | FTW          | 999 |
| 15 | JJH          | 1225 | 18 | Hirano       | 960 |
| 16 | FTW          | 1099 | 20 | CXT          | 900 |
| 17 | Shan Xiaona | 970 | 11 | Diaz        | 890 |
| 18 | Hirano       | 960 | 21 | Fan Siqi     | 890 |
| 19 | Takahashi    | 945 | 22 | Zhang Rui    | 862 |
| 20 | CXT          | 900 | 25 | LWS          | 842 |
| 21 | Fan Siqi     | 890 | 27 | CSY          | 820 |
| 22 | Zhang Rui    | 862 | 26 | Sawettabut   | 805 |
| 23 | Fu Yu        | 860 | 29 | Kuai Man     | 795 |
| 24 | Yuan Jia Nan | 845 | 24 | Yuan Jia Nan | 774 |
| 25 | LWS          | 842 | 32 | CIC          | 765 |
| 26 | Sawettabut   | 835 | 13 | Mittelham    | 735 |
| 27 | CSY          | 820 | 17 | Shan Xiaona | 645 |
| 28 | Matelova     | 805 | 19 | Takahashi    | 640 |
| 29 | Kuai Man     | 795 | 28 | Matelova     | 638 |
| 30 | SYB          | 774 | 33 | Szocs        | 620 |
| 31 | Solja        | 770 | 40 | Abraamian    | 613 |
| 32 | CIC          | 765 | 41 | Nagasaki     | 595 |
| 33 | Szocs        | 760 | 35 | SHW          | 575 |
| 34 | Samara       | 670 | 37 | Ni Xia Lian | 573 |
| 35 | SHW          | 665 | 43 | Harimoto     | 563 |
| 36 | Lily Zhang   | 660 | 44 | Batra        | 540 |
| 37 | Ni Xia Lian | 655 | 45 | Balazova     | 535 |
| 38 | Pesotska     | 655 | 48 | QTY          | 519 |
| 39 | Goda        | 626 | 23 | Fu Yu        | 514 |
| 40 | Abraamian    | 613 | 34 | Samara       | 499 |
| 41 | Nagasaki     | 595 | 36 | Lily Zhang   | 495 |
| 42 | Winter       | 570 | 38 | Pesotska     | 485 |
| 43 | Harimoto     | 563 | 49 | Bergstrom    | 440 |
| 44 | Batra        | 550 | 30 | SYB          | 439 |
| 45 | Balazova     | 545 | 53 | Ojio        | 415 |
| 46 | Mikhailova   | 523 | 42 | Winter       | 402 |
| 47 | Alhodaby     | 520 | 54 | Zhang Mo     | 399 |
| 48 | QTY          | 519 | 55 | HZJ          | 399 |
| 49 | Bergstrom    | 510 | 57 | LHC          | 394 |
| 50 | Meshref      | 475 | 51 | Shao Jieni   | 370 |

                           | 50 | Meshref      | 305 | Outside top 50
                           | 31 | Solja        | 270 | Outside top 50
                           | 46 | Mikhailova   | 173 | Outside top 50
                           | 39 | Goda        | 128 | Outside top 50
                           | 47 | Alhodaby     | 20   | Outside top 50




Edited by zeio - 09/06/2022 at 2:57pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 1:35pm
For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.

Edited by zeio - 09/06/2022 at 2:26pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
mykonos96 View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member
Avatar

Joined: 07/19/2018
Location: Southam
Status: Offline
Points: 1763
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mykonos96 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:41pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.
Same for Diaz
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:58pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.

I think one good thing here (regardless of what you think about the new rating system) is that Lily's rank is hardly affected by continental points if your divine mathematics is right.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:04pm
Diaz would still be in top 20, but she would be the one with the biggest drop after those 3, other than the few who would drop outside top 50.
YXX would be the only European to be inside top 10.
Han Ying and Pocalnova would be just outside top 10.

Overall, European men(top 20 will still be top 20) fare MUCH better than European women and that's inline with the general perception in East Asia.

Edited by zeio - 09/06/2022 at 3:26pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.

Updated the women's ranking to the top 50.


I think one good thing here (regardless of what you think about the new rating system) is that Lily's rank is hardly affected by continental points if your divine mathematics is right.

Yes. Dropping 5 places is acceptable for her, given her performance against East Asian players in 2022. Personally, I'd rank her higher than some top European players just because of that.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
amateur View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/29/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:46pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.

As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it.  

I don't watch those channels, but I'm generally aware of that kind of tabloid journalism and so-called sports punditry. I didn't realize that's your idea for this forum - I thought it could do better since it's not dependent on commercial success and ratings.

As for "fandom" - I'm also uncomfortable with that, especially when it goes from excessive adulation to excessive disparagement on a whim. It always seems to come down to who's the "greatest" - Messi or Ronaldo, Federer or Nadal, Zhang or Wang... Life's more complicated than that.
Back to Top
JediJesseS View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 06/02/2016
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JediJesseS Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:28pm
"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years".

I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego.
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:47pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years".

I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego.

Human nature is a tough thing to accept, but accept it I must.
 


I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:51pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

You're welcome.

As a matter of principle I'm uncomfortable "inferring" anything about an athlete's work ethic, off-court attitude, or lifestyle. We don't know all the circumstances, and it's none of our business anyway.

As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it.  

I don't watch those channels, but I'm generally aware of that kind of tabloid journalism and so-called sports punditry. I didn't realize that's your idea for this forum - I thought it could do better since it's not dependent on commercial success and ratings.

As for "fandom" - I'm also uncomfortable with that, especially when it goes from excessive adulation to excessive disparagement on a whim. It always seems to come down to who's the "greatest" - Messi or Ronaldo, Federer or Nadal, Zhang or Wang... Life's more complicated than that.
I don't know whether it is an idea, I think the discussion is going the way it should.  My main point is that something like this is inevitable. and I suspect rightly or wrongly that there is another dynamic at play here as well. But the main point is that public figures need to have strong hearts and minds, they get criticized everyday in baseless ways.  Even if someone believes it is wrong, it is a very different thing to say that it isn't typical amongst people.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
amateur View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/29/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

Yes, I meant to add that: surely many of us here know these American players personally, and in some cases have watched them train, compete, and grow up since they were little (that's my case at least for both Lily and Amy). So I really don't feel like talking about them the way ESPN pundits or ordinary "fans" talk about millionaire megastars like Tom Brady or Serena Williams.

And maybe some here missed that Lily went public last year about her struggles (after the Olympics). As far as I'm concerned, she has nothing left to prove after 10 years at the top of the sport. If she improves further and manages to break into the top 10, great - if she retires tomorrow to pursue something else she enjoys, good for her. 
Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: NO
Status: Offline
Points: 1069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:22pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by JediJesseS JediJesseS wrote:

"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community.

Yes, I meant to add that: surely many of us here know these American players personally, and in some cases have watched them train, compete, and grow up since they were little (that's my case at least for both Lily and Amy). So I really don't feel like talking about them the way ESPN pundits or ordinary "fans" talk about millionaire megastars like Tom Brady or Serena Williams.

And maybe some here missed that Lily went public last year about her struggles (after the Olympics). As far as I'm concerned, she has nothing left to prove after 10 years at the top of the sport. If she improves further and manages to break into the top 10, great - if she retires tomorrow to pursue something else she enjoys, good for her. 
 

One would think that Donn, being such the advisor to Lily that he is LOL, would be more aware of her mental health struggles that she made public, and might not find the need to bash her on an online forum. But it's telling that he hasn't come back to this thread to address the blatant misinformation and hypocrisy that has been pointed out - luckily, most seem to realize there's more to it than unbiased table tennis analysis.

I see NextLevel's point in not stifling freedom of speech and letting Donn come to whatever conclusion he wishes with his obviously limited information, but there is a difference with the incendiary sports "analysts" on ESPN, who openly admit to stirring up drama for views - they make millions of dollars for it because there are millions of people worldwide consuming the content. It is an open secret that those programs are by no means sports analysis. So, slightly different on a forum of what appears these days to have about 25 active members. 


Back to Top
bard romance View Drop Down
Gold Member
Gold Member


Joined: 02/18/2016
Location: NO
Status: Offline
Points: 1069
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bard romance Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:34pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by Lightspin Lightspin wrote:

Also as a professional player she is probably trying to peak for specific tournaments and maybe this wasn't one of them.

Exactly, she was there ahead of a busy international schedule because we asked her to be there to compete and she obliged. It’s also worth noting that international competitors aren’t used to playing with a seamless ball like the flash. The players who had pips or drove the ball more definitely seemed to play better at the event.

Why did Joola use that ball?  Why not a seamed ball?

I would like to know this as well - the Prime ball, which they use at the Teams, is seamed ABS.
Back to Top
amateur View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 02/29/2008
Status: Offline
Points: 4575
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote amateur Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:28pm
Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html
Top 20
5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600
6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400
8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500
9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500
10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700
13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500


As one can see here, the ranking is currently distorted because of special Covid regulations - normally you couldn't have two players credited with 500 points from their respective European Cup win. Same for the women with Han Ying and Mittelham (CCUP 500) and Polcanova and Solja (CC 500). Since Covid messed up the competition schedule, there are currently too many European points in the system. This will all take a while until one can really see what the ranking will look like according to the new rules and point allocations.


Edited by amateur - 09/06/2022 at 9:34pm
Back to Top
pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/22/2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3032
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:08pm
Originally posted by amateur amateur wrote:

Originally posted by zeio zeio wrote:

Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html
Top 20
5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600
6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400
8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500
9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500
10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700
13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500


As one can see here, the ranking is currently distorted because of special Covid regulations - normally you couldn't have two players credited with 500 points from their respective European Cup win. Same for the women with Han Ying and Mittelham (CCUP 500) and Polcanova and Solja (CC 500). Since Covid messed up the competition schedule, there are currently too many European points in the system. This will all take a while until one can really see what the ranking will look like according to the new rules and point allocations.
This is true.  A lot of players rankings are being propped up by their 2021 results.  Just as the initial ranking points went away, eventually the 2021 results will go away.  Their validity is currently being extended due to Covid.
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:57am
We're looking at the overall picture here. There is more movement on the women's side, when there should be roughly the same movement on both sides. I'll probably do 2018 and 2019 to see how different they would look.

Still, even the world ranking w/o continental result does not totally reflect the real standing, since the top 8/16/32 players enjoy succeedingly better seeding positions(easier draw). For a fairer comparison, one has to go deeper, like I did for Ishikawa and CIC(how often they reached a certain round, while taking into account their seeding positions), QD and WCT(how they did against the same player, preferably in the same tournament).

Ishikawa often "survived" 1 more round than CIC in the same tournaments because of better draw. Same deal for QD and WCT at WTT CS ESS. The best example that contains the 2 scenarios above is WTTC 2021.

https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2346
WS of WTTC 2021
Ishikawa(seed #6) - QF, 0-4 CM(1)
Hirano(9) - R16, 3-4 CM
Ito(3) - QF, 1-4 WYD(7)
Hayata(15) - R16, 2-4 WYD
CIC(5) - R16, 1-4 CXT(12)

Under an Elo-like rating system, players would be punished(points taken away) from least to most(difference in rating points) for losing in the following order:
Hayata = Hirano < Ishikawa < Ito < CIC

Yet under the current merit-based ranking system, Ito and Ishikawa got awarded more in return when they actually played the worst.

Edited by zeio - 09/07/2022 at 6:53am
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
stiltt View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: 07/15/2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Status: Offline
Points: 424
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote stiltt Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 6:46am
Originally posted by bard romance bard romance wrote:

....
It is an open secret that those programs are by no means sports analysis. So, slightly different on a forum of what appears these days to have about 25 active members. 
26 with you, WELCOME BACK!!! Tongue
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 1:05pm
The 2020 World Ranking was frozen from 4/2020 to 11/2020. 1 continental championships/continental cup and 1 continental games were allowed in the best-8 results.

On the men's side, the top 20 would still be top 20 without continental results, except for Aruna(20->22), who was barely top 20 to begin with.

On the women's side, Polcanova(16->17) would be the only non-East Asian/-Southeast Asian player in the top 20. Diaz(18->28) and Solja(19->24) would be in top 30 instead. Those that relied a lot on continental championships/cup and continental games had a substantial drop, such as Lily(30->43), Wu Yue(31->45), Zhang Mo(38->49) and those that fell outside top 60.

https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2020/49w
|  With continental results   |   W/O continental results   |                           |
|----|----------------|-------|----|----------------|-------|---------------------------|
| 1 | FZD            | 18490 | 1 | FZD            | 18155 | 18490-1800+1465           |
| 2 | XX             | 17260 | 2 | XX             | 17120 | 17260-1800+1660           |
| 3 | ML             | 17020 | 3 | ML             | 17020 |                           |
| 4 | LGY            | 13390 | 4 | LGY            | 13165 | 13390-1350+1125           |
| 5 | Miwa's brother | 12990 | 5 | Miwa's brother | 12990 |                           |
| 6 | Calderano      | 12315 | 7 | LYJ            | 12150 |                           |
| 7 | LYJ            | 12150 | 8 | Falck          | 11695 | 11695-900+900             |
| 8 | Falck          | 11695 | 6 | Calderano      | 11435 | 12315-1800-1330+1125+1125 |
| 9 | LJK            | 11205 | 9 | LJK            | 11205 |                           |
| 10 | Boll           | 10685 | 11 | JWJ            | 10585 |                           |
| 11 | JWJ            | 10585 | 12 | Ovtcharov      | 10565 |                           |
| 12 | Ovtcharov      | 10565 | 13 | JYS            | 10050 |                           |
| 13 | JYS            | 10050 | 10 | Boll           | 9755 | 10685-1800-1050+1020+900 |
| 14 | WCQ            | 9785 | 15 | Pitchford      | 9710 | 9710-900+900              |
| 15 | Pitchford      | 9710 | 14 | WCQ            | 9335 | 9785-900+450              |
| 16 | Franziska      | 9620 | 16 | Franziska      | 9200 | 9620-1170+750             |
| 17 | Niwa           | 9435 | 17 | Niwa           | 9165 | 9435-1170+900             |
| 18 | Mizutani       | 9045 | 18 | Mizutani       | 9045 |                           |
| 19 | WCT            | 8995 | 19 | WCT            | 8950 | 8995-765+720              |
| 20 | Gauzy          | 8755 | 20 | Gauzy          | 8755 |                           |
| 20 | Aruna          | 8755 | 22 | LSS            | 8095 | 8320-900+675              |
| 22 | LSS            | 8320 | 20 | Aruna          | 8025 | 8755-1800-1000+1350+720   |
| 23 | ZZH            | 7750 | 23 | ZZH            | 7750 |                           |


https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/W;SINGLES/2020/49w
|   With continental results   |   W/O continental results    |                        |                             |
|----|-----------------|-------|----|-----------------|-------|------------------------|-----------------------------|
| 1 | CM              | 19750 | 1 | CM              | 19750 |                        |                             |
| 2 | SYS             | 16400 | 3 | Ito             | 15830 |                        |                             |
| 3 | Ito             | 15830 | 2 | SYS             | 15770 | 16400-1800+1170        |                             |
| 4 | WMY             | 14555 | 4 | WMY             | 14555 |                        |                             |
| 5 | DN              | 13450 | 5 | DN              | 13300 | 13450-1170+1020        |                             |
| 6 | ZYL             | 12225 | 8 | CIC             | 11710 |                        |                             |
| 7 | LSW             | 12075 | 7 | LSW             | 11475 | 12075-1350+750        |                             |
| 8 | CIC             | 11710 | 6 | ZYL             | 11100 | 12225-1800+675        |                             |
| 9 | Ishikawa        | 11100 | 10 | WYD             | 11035 |                        |                             |
| 10 | WYD             | 11035 | 9 | Ishikawa        | 11030 | 11100-1170+1100        |                             |
| 11 | Hirano          | 10695 | 11 | Hirano          | 10695 |                        |                             |
| 12 | FTW             | 10580 | 12 | FTW             | 10400 | 10580-1080+900        |                             |
| 13 | CXT             | 10370 | 13 | CXT             | 10370 |                        |                             |
| 14 | DHK             | 9360 | 14 | DHK             | 9180 | 9360-900+720           |                             |
| 15 | JJH             | 9140 | 15 | JJH             | 9140 |                        |                             |
| 16 | Polcanova       | 8960 | 17 | Sato            | 8920 |                        |                             |
| 17 | Sato            | 8920 | 16 | Polcanova       | 8690 | 8960-1170+900          |                             |
| 18 | Diaz            | 8825 | 20 | HZJ             | 8255 |                        |                             |
| 19 | Solja           | 8305 | 21 | SHW             | 8165 |                        |                             |
| 20 | HZJ             | 8255 | 23 | Kato            | 7770 | 7775-720+715           |                             |
| 21 | SHW             | 8165 | 24 | QTY             | 7660 |                        |                             |
| 22 | Han Ying        | 8165 | 22 | Han Ying        | 7115 | 8165-1140-900+540+450 |                             |
| 23 | Kato            | 7775 | 25 | CSY             | 7090 | 7270-720+540           |                             |
| 24 | QTY             | 7660 | 19 | Solja           | 7045 | 8305-1800+540          |                             |
| 25 | CSY             | 7270 | 26 | Szocs           | 7010 | 7260-900-700+675+675   |                             |
| 26 | Szocs           | 7260 | 28 | Soo Wai Yam     | 6930 |                        |                             |
| 27 | Eerland        | 7085 | 29 | Hayata          | 6895 |                        |                             |
| 28 | Soo Wai Yam     | 6930 | 18 | Diaz            | 6615 | 8825-1800-1400+540+450 |                             |
| 29 | Hayata          | 6895 | 36 | Hashimoto       | 6180 |                        |                             |
| 30 | Lily Zhang      | 6750 | 37 | Shibata        | 6150 |                        |                             |
| 31 | Wu Yue          | 6480 | 27 | Eerland        | 6075 | 7085-1350+340          |                             |
| 32 | Pesotska        | 6330 | 40 | Gu Yuting       | 5985 |                        |                             |
| 33 | Li Qian        | 6320 | 41 | Sawettabut      | 5945 | 5960-440+425           |                             |
| 34 | Samara          | 6295 | 43 | Shan Xiaona     | 5920 |                        |                             |
| 35 | Meshref        | 6225 | 39 | Mittelham       | 5865 | 6045-720+540           |                             |
| 36 | Hashimoto       | 6180 | 44 | YXX             | 5805 | 5895-630+540           |                             |
| 37 | Shibata        | 6150 | 45 | LHC             | 5655 | 5835-720+540           |                             |
| 38 | Zhang Mo        | 6130 | 34 | Samara          | 5555 | 6295-1080+340          |                             |
| 39 | Mittelham       | 6045 | 32 | Pesotska        | 5480 | 6330-1350+500          |                             |
| 40 | Gu Yuting       | 5985 | 46 | Mikhailova      | 5445 | 5790-720-525+450+450   |                             |
| 41 | Sawettabut      | 5960 | 49 | Kihara          | 5350 | 5530-540+360           |                             |
| 42 | Ni Xia Lian     | 5945 | 50 | YMY             | 5315 | 5495-540+360           |                             |
| 43 | Shan Xiaona     | 5920 | 30 | Lily Zhang      | 5160 | 6750-1800-665+450+425 |                             |
| 44 | YXX             | 5895 | 51 | Matelova        | 5090 | 5450-720+360           |                             |
| 45 | LHC             | 5835 | 31 | Wu Yue          | 5050 | 6480-1170-930+340+330 |                             |
| 46 | Mikhailova      | 5790 | 56 | Nagasaki        | 5010 |                        |                             |
| 47 | Takahashi       | 5680 | 42 | Ni Xia Lian     | 4990 | 5945-900-755+360+340   |                             |
| 48 | Ekholm          | 5665 | 57 | Cheng Hsien-Tzu | 4945 |                        |                             |
| 49 | Kihara          | 5530 | 38 | Zhang Mo        | 4870 | 6130-1170-700+340+270 |                             |
| 50 | YMY             | 5495 | 54 | Balazova        | 4820 | 5270-900+450           |                             |
| 51 | Matelova        | 5450 | 52 | Kim Song I      | 4700 | 5420-720+0             | 4 events left, still top 60 |
| 52 | Kim Song I      | 5420 | 48 | Ekholm          | 4385 | 5665-720-560+0+0       | Outside top 60?             |
| 53 | Pota            | 5410 | 53 | Pota            | 4085 | 5410-1020-560+255+0    | Outside top 60?             |
| 54 | Balazova        | 5270 | 47 | Takahashi       | 3940 | 5680-1350-1175+425+360 | Outside top 60?             |
| 55 | Fu Yu           | 5155 | 33 | Li Qian        | 3820 | 6320-1800-700+0+0      | Outside top 60?             |
| 56 | Nagasaki        | 5010 | 35 | Meshref        | 3565 | 6225-1800-1470+340+270 | Outside top 60?             |
| 57 | Cheng Hsien-Tzu | 4945 | 55 | Fu Yu           | 2905 | 5155-1560-1050+180+180 | Outside top 60?             |


Edited by zeio - 09/07/2022 at 1:21pm
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
PingPongPom View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/09/2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 2:26pm

http://mhtabletennis.com
Back to Top
Twiddler View Drop Down
Super Member
Super Member


Joined: 07/18/2019
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 181
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Twiddler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:58pm
World class prize money  $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's
Back to Top
zeio View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member


Joined: 03/25/2010
Status: Online
Points: 8846
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote zeio Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 4:20pm
https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21816-ITTF-Paraguay-Open-2019&p=288495&viewfull=1#post288495
Quote Cifuentes is pretty good. More balanced than some Europeans. Awesome footwork, coming from a football country. Not a pushover.
Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare)
+ Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃)
= 184.8g
Back to Top
PingPongPom View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/09/2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 4:34pm
Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

World class prize money  $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's

If WTT hadnt been so hopeless with their calendar we had Ovtcharov and Calderano wanting to come but ultimately couldn’t commit any active WTT players in the end. I had to dig deep this time haha most of the top players in the open singles also entered the over 30 😂
http://mhtabletennis.com
Back to Top
NextLevel View Drop Down
Forum Moderator
Forum Moderator
Avatar

Joined: 12/15/2011
Location: Somewhere Good
Status: Offline
Points: 14109
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/07/2022 at 5:41pm
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by Twiddler Twiddler wrote:

World class prize money  $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's

If WTT hadnt been so hopeless with their calendar we had Ovtcharov and Calderano wanting to come but ultimately couldn’t commit any active WTT players in the end. I had to dig deep this time haha most of the top players in the open singles also entered the over 30 😂

Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.
I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Mazunov
FH: C1
BH: C1
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...
Back to Top
PingPongPom View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/09/2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:51am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.

Unsure about the choice of ball, I think there were a large quantity of them printed with JOOLA 70th Anniversary logo so they chose to use them for the event in conjunction with that celebration. I think if the event happens again it would be better to use the Prime ball.
http://mhtabletennis.com
Back to Top
PingPongPom View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/09/2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:52am
http://mhtabletennis.com
Back to Top
pongfugrasshopper View Drop Down
Premier Member
Premier Member
Avatar

Joined: 03/22/2015
Location: USA
Status: Offline
Points: 3032
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pongfugrasshopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2022 at 11:00am
Originally posted by PingPongPom PingPongPom wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.

Unsure about the choice of ball, I think there were a large quantity of them printed with JOOLA 70th Anniversary logo so they chose to use them for the event in conjunction with that celebration. I think if the event happens again it would be better to use the Prime ball.
https://joola.com/events/global-championships/ (Hover over the EQUIPMENT icon)

 

The tournament will use ITTF-approved JOOLA 3000SC Neo and JOOLA 3000SC Pro Competition tables and players will compete with white JOOLA Flash poly balls. No competitor shall wear white shirts or shorts/skirts during play. All USATT and ITTF rules and regulations will be followed.


Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 09/08/2022 at 11:01am
Back to Top
PingPongPom View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/09/2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:22pm
He’s asking why the Flash ball was chosen as apposed to the Prime
http://mhtabletennis.com
Back to Top
PingPongPom View Drop Down
Silver Member
Silver Member
Avatar

Joined: 01/09/2012
Location: New Jersey, USA
Status: Offline
Points: 651
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote PingPongPom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09/12/2022 at 10:56am
http://mhtabletennis.com
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  <1234>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.01
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.

Become a Fan on Facebook Follow us on Twitter Web Wiz News
Forum Home | Go to the Forums | Forum Help | Disclaimer

MyTableTennis.NET is the trading name of Alex Table Tennis Ltd.

Copyright ©2003-2020 Alex Table Tennis Ltd. All rights reserved.