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NextLevel 
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14309 |
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 Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:39am |
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As a matter of principle and fact, there are ESPN/Fox Sports journalists in sports punditry who do exactly what you are uncomfortable with for a living, and most sports reporting is built on it. Your position is understandable and principled, but I hope you do acknowledge that what I just wrote is factually based - a lot of TV commentary and fan opinion that helps support the sport's popularity is based on the very things you are uncomfortable with. Donn is not one of those reporters, but what he wrote is par for the course for criticizing an athlete, and the kind of pushback he is getting is the exactly the same kind those journalists do. The idea that it is none of our business is a bit rich on a TT forum. The kind of conversation going on on this thread is exactly what a fan forum does.
Edited by NextLevel - 09/06/2022 at 11:40am |
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Innerforce T5000 FH: GT BH: GT PS Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:46am |
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Fascinating - thanks. Easy enough to do one for the men's as well?
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Innerforce T5000 FH: GT BH: GT PS Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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zeio
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Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 9564 |
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 12:52pm |
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Here you go. I fixed some errors in the women's ranking. Posting both together for easier comparison.
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_MS.html Top 20 5 Calderano 2920-500+70=2490, highest point SCT 600 6 Moregard 2800-350+15=2465, highest point WTTC 1400 8->10 Jorgic 2145-500+105=1750, highest point CCUP 500 9->12 Qiu Dang 2095-500+45=1640, highest point CC 500 10->11 Ovtcharov 2015-350+0=1665, highest point OG 700 13 Franziska 1750-500+55=1305, highest point CCUP 500 14->16 Boll 1610-500+0=1110, highest point WTTC 700 15->14 Aruna 1565-350+70=1285, highest point CC 350 16->19 CCY 1365-350+55=1070, highest point CS 350/CC 350 17->18 Karlsson 1230-175+35=1090, highest point GS 350 19->17 Kallberg 1145-90+45=1100, highest point CT 400 20 Pitchford 1045-90+25=980, highest point CF 265
https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/09/2022_36_SEN_WS.html Top 50 6 Hayata 2710-500+105=2315, highest point SCT 600 7 DHK 1670-90+5=1585, highest point SCT 420 8->12 Han Ying 1580-500+5=1085, highest point CCUP 500 10->13 Polcanova 1465-500+35=1000, highest point CC 500 11->17 Diaz 1355-500+35=890, highest point CC 500 12->9 YXX 1285-100+55=1240, highest point CT 400 13->26 Mittelham 1230-500+5=735, highest point CCUP 500 16->14 FTW 1099-100+0=999, highest point SCT 420 17->27 Shan Xiaona 970-350+25=645, highest point CC 350 19->28 Takahashi 945-350+45=640, highest point CC 350 23->39 Fu Yu 860-350+4=514, highest point CCUP 350 24 Yuan Jia Nan 845-90+19=774, highest point GS 350 26->22 Sawettabut 835-45+15=805, highest point WTTC 175 28->29 Matelova 805-175+8=638, highest point CT 400 30->44 SYB 774-350+15=439, highest point CC 350 31->outside top 50 Solja 770-500+0=270, highest point CC 500 33->30 Szocs 760-175+35=620, highest point WTTC 175 34->40 Samara 670-175+4=499, highest point SCT 210 35->33 SHW 665-90+0=575, highest point WTTC 350 36->41 Lily Zhang 660-175+10=495, highest point CC 175 37->34 Ni Xia Lian 655-90+8=573, highest point CT 280 38->42 Pesotska 655-175+5=485, highest point SCT 210 39->outside top 50 Goda 626-500+2=128, highset point CCUP 500 42->46 Winter 570-175+7=402, highest point CC 175 43->36 Batra 550-20+10=540, highest point CT 140 44->37 Balazova 545-45+35=535, highest point FEE 150 46->outside top 50 Mikhailova 523-350+0=173, highest point CCUP 350 47->outside top 50 Alhodaby 520-500+0=20, highest point CC 500 49->43 Bergstrom 510-90+20=440, highest point CT 140 50->outside top 50 Meshref 475-175+5=305, highest point CCUP 175 51->50 Shao Jieni 450-90+10=370, highest point CC 90 54->47 Zhang Mo 415-20+4=399, highest point OG 175
Edited by zeio - 09/06/2022 at 2:57pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
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Joined: 03/25/2010 Status: Offline Points: 9564 |
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 1:35pm |
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For the women's ranking, Mittelham, Shan Xiaona and Takahashi would actually be outside the top 20 without the continental result.
Updated the women's ranking to the top 50. Edited by zeio - 09/06/2022 at 2:26pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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mykonos96
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Joined: 07/19/2018 Location: Southam Status: Offline Points: 1829 |
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:41pm |
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Same for Diaz
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NextLevel
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Joined: 12/15/2011 Location: Somewhere Good Status: Offline Points: 14309 |
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 2:58pm |
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I think one good thing here (regardless of what you think about the new rating system) is that Lily's rank is hardly affected by continental points if your divine mathematics is right.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Innerforce T5000 FH: GT BH: GT PS Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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zeio
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:04pm |
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Diaz would still be in top 20, but she would be the one with the biggest drop after those 3, other than the few who would drop outside top 50.
YXX would be the only European to be inside top 10. Han Ying and Pocalnova would be just outside top 10. Overall, European men(top 20 will still be top 20) fare MUCH better than European women and that's inline with the general perception in East Asia. Edited by zeio - 09/06/2022 at 3:26pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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zeio
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:12pm |
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Yes. Dropping 5 places is acceptable for her, given her performance against East Asian players in 2022. Personally, I'd rank her higher than some top European players just because of that. |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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amateur
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Joined: 02/29/2008 Status: Offline Points: 4599 |
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 3:46pm |
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I don't watch those channels, but I'm generally aware of that kind of tabloid journalism and so-called sports punditry. I didn't realize that's your idea for this forum - I thought it could do better since it's not dependent on commercial success and ratings. As for "fandom" - I'm also uncomfortable with that, especially when it goes from excessive adulation to excessive disparagement on a whim. It always seems to come down to who's the "greatest" - Messi or Ronaldo, Federer or Nadal, Zhang or Wang... Life's more complicated than that.
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JediJesseS
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:28pm |
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"Well, but lots of people do it" is about the weakest non-argument or justification there is.
Amateur is correct when he says this practice can be more than distasteful, especially when it comes from within our own comparatively close knit community. DonnOlsen should be ashamed of his insinuations and comments about Lily Zhang, at once viciously belittling her and then also attempting to inflate his own stature by writing he has "helped her with her game for over 14 years". I can only imagine Lily, the overwhelmingly kind person she is, smiling and calmly tolerating the unneeded intrusions and nonsense advice from this person who seems to be primarily concerned only with their own ego. |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:47pm |
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Human nature is a tough thing to accept, but accept it I must.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Innerforce T5000 FH: GT BH: GT PS Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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NextLevel
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 6:51pm |
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I don't know whether it is an idea, I think the discussion is going the way it should. My main point is that something like this is inevitable. and I suspect rightly or wrongly that there is another dynamic at play here as well. But the main point is that public figures need to have strong hearts and minds, they get criticized everyday in baseless ways. Even if someone believes it is wrong, it is a very different thing to say that it isn't typical amongst people.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Innerforce T5000 FH: GT BH: GT PS Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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amateur
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:08pm |
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Yes, I meant to add that: surely many of us here know these American players personally, and in some cases have watched them train, compete, and grow up since they were little (that's my case at least for both Lily and Amy). So I really don't feel like talking about them the way ESPN pundits or ordinary "fans" talk about millionaire megastars like Tom Brady or Serena Williams. And maybe some here missed that Lily went public last year about her struggles (after the Olympics). As far as I'm concerned, she has nothing left to prove after 10 years at the top of the sport. If she improves further and manages to break into the top 10, great - if she retires tomorrow to pursue something else she enjoys, good for her.
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bard romance
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:22pm |
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One would think that Donn, being such the advisor to Lily that he is , would be more aware of her mental health struggles that she made public, and might not find the need to bash her on an online forum. But it's telling that he hasn't come back to this thread to address the blatant misinformation and hypocrisy that has been pointed out - luckily, most seem to realize there's more to it than unbiased table tennis analysis.I see NextLevel's point in not stifling freedom of speech and letting Donn come to whatever conclusion he wishes with his obviously limited information, but there is a difference with the incendiary sports "analysts" on ESPN, who openly admit to stirring up drama for views - they make millions of dollars for it because there are millions of people worldwide consuming the content. It is an open secret that those programs are by no means sports analysis. So, slightly different on a forum of what appears these days to have about 25 active members. |
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bard romance
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 8:34pm |
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I would like to know this as well - the Prime ball, which they use at the Teams, is seamed ABS.
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amateur
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 9:28pm |
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As one can see here, the ranking is currently distorted because of special Covid regulations - normally you couldn't have two players credited with 500 points from their respective European Cup win. Same for the women with Han Ying and Mittelham (CCUP 500) and Polcanova and Solja (CC 500). Since Covid messed up the competition schedule, there are currently too many European points in the system. This will all take a while until one can really see what the ranking will look like according to the new rules and point allocations.
Edited by amateur - 09/06/2022 at 9:34pm |
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pongfugrasshopper
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Posted: 09/06/2022 at 11:08pm |
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This is true. A lot of players rankings are being propped up by their 2021 results. Just as the initial ranking points went away, eventually the 2021 results will go away. Their validity is currently being extended due to Covid.
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zeio
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:57am |
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We're looking at the overall picture here. There is more movement on the women's side, when there should be roughly the same movement on both sides. I'll probably do 2018 and 2019 to see how different they would look.
Still, even the world ranking w/o continental result does not totally reflect the real standing, since the top 8/16/32 players enjoy succeedingly better seeding positions(easier draw). For a fairer comparison, one has to go deeper, like I did for Ishikawa and CIC(how often they reached a certain round, while taking into account their seeding positions), QD and WCT(how they did against the same player, preferably in the same tournament). Ishikawa often "survived" 1 more round than CIC in the same tournaments because of better draw. Same deal for QD and WCT at WTT CS ESS. The best example that contains the 2 scenarios above is WTTC 2021. https://worldtabletennis.com/eventInfo?selectedTab=Player%20List&eventId=2346 WS of WTTC 2021 Ishikawa(seed #6) - QF, 0-4 CM(1) Hirano(9) - R16, 3-4 CM Ito(3) - QF, 1-4 WYD(7) Hayata(15) - R16, 2-4 WYD CIC(5) - R16, 1-4 CXT(12) Under an Elo-like rating system, players would be punished(points taken away) from least to most(difference in rating points) for losing in the following order: Hayata = Hirano < Ishikawa < Ito < CIC Yet under the current merit-based ranking system, Ito and Ishikawa got awarded more in return when they actually played the worst. Edited by zeio - 09/07/2022 at 6:53am |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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stiltt
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 6:46am |
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zeio
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 1:05pm |
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The 2020 World Ranking was frozen from 4/2020 to 11/2020. 1 continental championships/continental cup and 1 continental games were allowed in the best-8 results.
On the men's side, the top 20 would still be top 20 without continental results, except for Aruna(20->22), who was barely top 20 to begin with. On the women's side, Polcanova(16->17) would be the only non-East Asian/-Southeast Asian player in the top 20. Diaz(18->28) and Solja(19->24) would be in top 30 instead. Those that relied a lot on continental championships/cup and continental games had a substantial drop, such as Lily(30->43), Wu Yue(31->45), Zhang Mo(38->49) and those that fell outside top 60. https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/M;SINGLES/2020/49w
https://ranking.ittf.com/#/rankings/list/SEN/W;SINGLES/2020/49w
Edited by zeio - 09/07/2022 at 1:21pm |
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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PingPongPom
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 2:26pm |
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http://mhtabletennis.com
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Twiddler
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 3:58pm |
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World class prize money $25,000. for 1st and $10,000. for 2nd, $4,000. semis and $1,600 quarter's
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zeio
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 4:20pm |
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https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?21816-ITTF-Paraguay-Open-2019&p=288495&viewfull=1#post288495
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Viscaria FL - 91g
+ Neo H3 2.15 Blk - 44.5g(55.3g uncut bare) + Hexer HD 2.1 Red - 49.3g(68.5g 〃 〃) = 184.8g |
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PingPongPom
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 4:34pm |
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If WTT hadnt been so hopeless with their calendar we had Ovtcharov and Calderano wanting to come but ultimately couldn’t commit any active WTT players in the end. I had to dig deep this time haha most of the top players in the open singles also entered the over 30 😂
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NextLevel
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Posted: 09/07/2022 at 5:41pm |
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Was a great event to watch, curious about the choice of ball, but it is something I would definitely have wanted to see live had I lived nearby.
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I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Innerforce T5000 FH: GT BH: GT PS Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
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PingPongPom
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Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:51am |
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Unsure about the choice of ball, I think there were a large quantity of them printed with JOOLA 70th Anniversary logo so they chose to use them for the event in conjunction with that celebration. I think if the event happens again it would be better to use the Prime ball.
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PingPongPom
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Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:52am |
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pongfugrasshopper
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Posted: 09/08/2022 at 11:00am |
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https://joola.com/events/global-championships/ (Hover over the EQUIPMENT icon) The tournament will use ITTF-approved JOOLA 3000SC Neo and JOOLA 3000SC Pro Competition tables and players will compete with white JOOLA Flash poly balls. No competitor shall wear white shirts or shorts/skirts during play. All USATT and ITTF rules and regulations will be followed.
Edited by pongfugrasshopper - 09/08/2022 at 11:01am |
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PingPongPom
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Posted: 09/08/2022 at 10:22pm |
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He’s asking why the Flash ball was chosen as apposed to the Prime
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PingPongPom
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Posted: 09/12/2022 at 10:56am |
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amateur wrote: