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My painful play

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    Posted: 02/25/2020 at 4:23pm
I recorded one of my tournament matches this past weekend. Lately, my back starts to act up after either 1 hour of practice or after 5 matches. I think it's lower back spasms but I wouldn't consider it severe. I realize that reducing my size could alleviate this physical issue so I restarted a program this week. I had won my first 6 matches of the tournament and then faced a tough opponent in Philippe D in this video. Ordinarily, I would be more patient playing longer points against this type of player (are there others of his style?) but due to lower back stiffness I felt the need to take risks and end points earlier.

 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2020 at 4:59pm
looks like you run into a member of my brotherhood, into a long pips chop blocker,  he is from "the dark side" defined as one who enjoys frustrating inverted players.  You have yet to meet the push blocker also from the darkbside.  😀😀
Got to 1600 with long pips Sept 2019;

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/25/2020 at 7:57pm
Originally posted by ericto ericto wrote:

You have yet to meet the push blocker also from the darkbside.  😀😀

It has been several years, but I've played against Pushblocker
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote le xex Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2020 at 1:01am
I looked at your video and I believe the reason for your back spasms is that you tend to stay stationary and lift the ball with help of your lower back. If you can keep the lower back relaxed and focus instead on getting momentum through your legs you may find some relief. Also allow yourself to fully heal before playing again because if you are partly injured it’s very easy to re injure even with normal like play.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ingo_Ger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2020 at 1:41am
To be brutal honest to you, you have to reduce your weight. Otherwise, your lower back will not be the only issue you will face in the future.
Your knees will eventually be also a pain in the ass literally speaking.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ghostzen Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2020 at 3:51am
Definitely agree with losing some weight if you want to keep playing without injury and stay healthy long term. Your quality of play over distance is unfortunately suffering badly because of the weight as you've realised.... Que rocky music... 😊.... Not forgetting training montage!

Cheers and good luck!.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2020 at 5:56am
Originally posted by le xex le xex wrote:

I looked at your video and I believe the reason for your back spasms is that you tend to stay stationary and lift the ball with help of your lower back. If you can keep the lower back relaxed and focus instead on getting momentum through your legs you may find some relief. Also allow yourself to fully heal before playing again because if you are partly injured it’s very easy to re injure even with normal like play.

Tbh it's either the knees or the lower back with the amount of weight there. I think heavyspin would be much healthier and also play at a much higher level if he loses like 60 pounds...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2020 at 8:09am
Originally posted by heavyspin heavyspin wrote:

I recorded one of my tournament matches this past weekend. Lately, my back starts to act up after either 1 hour of practice or after 5 matches. I think it's lower back spasms but I wouldn't consider it severe. I realize that reducing my size could alleviate this physical issue so I restarted a program this week. I had won my first 6 matches of the tournament and then faced a tough opponent in Philippe D in this video. Ordinarily, I would be more patient playing longer points against this type of player (are there others of his style?) but due to lower back stiffness I felt the need to take risks and end points earlier.

 



Try the carnivore diet or keto diet if you can handle it.  You may lose some power for a while as your body adapts but it will be helpful in the long run.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BeaverMD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/26/2020 at 8:35am
Use this back roller between every match.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttvet86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by BeaverMD BeaverMD wrote:

Use this back roller between every match.
Off topic, but this company’s hq is just down the street from the Columbus Table Tennis Club... 👍🏼
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote APW46 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 3:32pm
Larry, your problem is the same as mine, you are too heavy my friend. The better technically you are, the harder it is, you have quality footwork and because of that you suffer more than inferior players. Your Brain will not stop you being foot perfect, but your body cannot sustain it. Awful I know,but the truth.

My knees have given up , but only when I play TT. I can run, walk, cycle no problem, but the action of a f/hand loop, pushing off from the right leg is just a complete no no, so I just cannot play matches in the satisfactory way I want to play. So I have stopped. I hate it, but it is what it is.


Edited by APW46 - 02/27/2020 at 3:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 3:57pm
No offense, but isn't it quite easy to lose weight? Just maintain a calorie deficit and the weight loss is guaranteed. stilltt seems to have succeeded so it's not impossible.

Edited by blahness - 02/27/2020 at 3:58pm
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I've flat feet to begin with, And I always took the knee pain caused by the condition as a convenient excuse not to exercise or play outdoors since ever I was 14 yrs old. With time, I've put on weight gradually. As I've entered 30's, my heaviest was at 97 kgs. Now I'm 33 years old, and I weigh 71 kgs. 

It all began when I couldn't loop or move in a rally. I've blamed my condition for not having a decent forehand technique, but later on realized that it was my weight actually. No matter how hard I train, I couldn't complete certain strokes as my legs were planted at one place. Frustrated, I've started running in my apartment gym, doing squats to strengthen my legs about 8-12 mins every morning, maintained low carb diet (like quinoa,couscous instead of rice) and slowly noticed being flexible in the sport. Where after, Increased my exercise routine to around 15-20 mins every day, and in about 5 months lost about 20 kgs. Don't want to brag on it but it is the fact. Now a days, although I play almost every day, I'm not rigorously exercising as I used to, having cheat days and I'm pretty much stuck at 70-72 kgs for almost an year now. Anyways, It might seem hard the first few days as you start your weight loss journey, but its mind over matter. If your goal is to repair your body and stroke mechanism, punish yourself on treadmill for a decent amount of time every day and I guarantee you'll see results in the longer run. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ericto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 6:00pm

Heavyspin, I am quite impressed with your skill level. Thanks for sharing your videos.  

I live with knee, hip, back and shoulder issues from the follies of my youth.  Would suggest professional opinion such as a chiro depending on your issue, massage, ultrasound, back exercise regiment...may help relieve spasms.  

This is not meant to be medical advise.  I only play a chiro on mytabletennis.net 

I personally use a back stretcher and find it helps with my spasms if i do not have my stretcher i just use two thicker pillows and that works for me.
Got to 1600 with long pips Sept 2019;

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote heavyspin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 6:54pm
Thanks all for the advice. 
Also when I go to my gym, which isn't that often, I should stop putting arrogant 20 something year olds (who think they're strong) in their place by showing them that in my 50's I can still out-lift them. A fitness freak around my age told me that I inspired him to do strength training. He said "I can't lift half the amount you lift." I responded "That doesn't mean I'm in good shape. If we ran for 20 minutes on a track, I couldn't run half the laps you run." I plan to do more endurance and stretching exercises.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejprinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 6:58pm
I was in physically bad shape about 1 year ago and hurt myself right away when I restarted table tennis and used the movements of my youth with the more mature body (and >50% higher weight). First thing I had to do was to do a low impact warm-up (elliptic machine + light stretching) EVERY TIME before playing TT for about 1/2 year. I also lost about 30 lbs since then (just playing TT, 2-4 hours/day), plus elliptic machine. I didn't change the diet by much (I eliminated milk, replaced with soy or almond milk, and in general watched my intake more closely). Also zero beer for 1/2 a year.
For my back I use the exercises from YouTube Tone & Tighten with the large foam roll. This helped a lot.
I am now at the point where I can play full top spin for 2 hours straight (but I still try to play like Mima Ito, not Ma Long).
Good luck !!
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Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

No offense, but isn't it quite easy to lose weight? Just maintain a calorie deficit and the weight loss is guaranteed. stilltt seems to have succeeded so it's not impossible.

Losing weight isnt a big problem, but maintaining it over a long time is. One is a temporary restriction and the other is a lifestyle change. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mts388 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 10:02pm
Wanting to be fit without losing weight is like me saying I want to National Champion without training.  

There is no magic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejprinz Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 10:53pm
So this is the Tone and Tighten Youtube site. Jared has some really good exercises for the lower back. I am doing the one with the foam roll daily, and some other ones too. Worked wonders on my lower back.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote NextLevel Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/27/2020 at 11:07pm
Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

No offense, but isn't it quite easy to lose weight? Just maintain a calorie deficit and the weight loss is guaranteed. stilltt seems to have succeeded so it's not impossible.

I lost 30lbs in the last year and a half and I can tell you that there is a lot of misinformation out there on how to lose weight and feel healthy.  Calorie deficits initiated the traditional way (eat less, move more) usually just acerbate problems with hunger hormones and are not sustainable.  That's one reason (in addition to my autoimmune issues) why I went keto carnivore and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote blahness Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 12:49am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

No offense, but isn't it quite easy to lose weight? Just maintain a calorie deficit and the weight loss is guaranteed. stilltt seems to have succeeded so it's not impossible.

I lost 30lbs in the last year and a half and I can tell you that there is a lot of misinformation out there on how to lose weight and feel healthy.  Calorie deficits initiated the traditional way (eat less, move more) usually just acerbate problems with hunger hormones and are not sustainable.  That's one reason (in addition to my autoimmune issues) why I went keto carnivore and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

+1 and yes. Basically the food composition is very important. Basically you gotta ban all dessert/junk food/alcohol and other sources of empty calories (they contribute lots of calories without making you feel full which sucks), gradually reduce carb consumption like bread/rice/noodles and increase meat/vegetables consumption. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 12:58am
Based on my personal experience, there are two ways of reducing weight that work for me:

1.  Intermittent Fasting (6 and then 4 hours eating window time):   I lost 13 kg in 1.5 months.   13 kg = 28.66 lbs.

2.  Keto diet:  I lost 16 kg in 3 months.   16 kg = 35.5 lbs.  I did not cut carbo entirely, just reduce it to minimum.

I have not tried other methods, but those two work well for me.  Intermittent fasting gives faster result, but keto diet is easier to do.   And healthier I think.

Oh I forgot to mention, I did not play TT but during dieting, I do RPM (that static cycling class).


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 8:45am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

No offense, but isn't it quite easy to lose weight? Just maintain a calorie deficit and the weight loss is guaranteed. stilltt seems to have succeeded so it's not impossible.


I lost 30lbs in the last year and a half and I can tell you that there is a lot of misinformation out there on how to lose weight and feel healthy.  Calorie deficits initiated the traditional way (eat less, move more) usually just acerbate problems with hunger hormones and are not sustainable.  That's one reason (in addition to my autoimmune issues) why I went keto carnivore and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.


This. So much this!

Moving more is a great idea for physical and mental health but contributes depressingly little to calorie deficit. Food is key. The link below is a decent pop-level explainer.

https://www.vox.com/2018/1/3/16845438/exercise-weight-loss-myth-burn-calories
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Odie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 8:47am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Based on my personal experience, there are two ways of reducing weight that work for me:

1.  Intermittent Fasting (6 and then 4 hours eating window time):   I lost 13 kg in 1.5 months.   13 kg = 28.66 lbs.

2.  Keto diet:  I lost 16 kg in 3 months.   16 kg = 35.5 lbs.  I did not cut carbo entirely, just reduce it to minimum.

I have not tried other methods, but those two work well for me.  Intermittent fasting gives faster result, but keto diet is easier to do.   And healthier I think.

Oh I forgot to mention, I did not play TT but during dieting, I do RPM (that static cycling class).



In general, what kind of diet were you eating in the window? When did the window open and close? Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote obesechopper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 4:52pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by blahness blahness wrote:

No offense, but isn't it quite easy to lose weight? Just maintain a calorie deficit and the weight loss is guaranteed. stilltt seems to have succeeded so it's not impossible.

I lost 30lbs in the last year and a half and I can tell you that there is a lot of misinformation out there on how to lose weight and feel healthy.  Calorie deficits initiated the traditional way (eat less, move more) usually just acerbate problems with hunger hormones and are not sustainable.  That's one reason (in addition to my autoimmune issues) why I went keto carnivore and it has been one of the best decisions I ever made.

I lost a good deal of weight eating meat and... chocolate! Yeah, yeah! 

All my main meals were carnivore, and if I wanted some treat or something else I ate chocolate (most all of it dark 50% - 88% - so I wasn't eating a few bags of snickers and reeses cups after a ribeye Wink) and cashews/walnuts/seeds/nuts. 

I've also tried the meat and goat's milk diet... basically now I try to make sure all of my actual meals are meat only, and have been trying to cycle in other foods to see what might work for me. 


Edited by obesechopper - 02/28/2020 at 4:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Simas Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 6:25pm
keto, intermittent and so on... it does not matter in the end.

What matters is just simple physics -calories in - calories out= your weight (I am not talking about eating junk by the way)

So use the diet that is the easiest to follow. For me, intermittent fasting works well, but it does not mean, that if my daily calories requirement for maintaining constant weight is 3000kcal, I can eat 3300kcal in my feeding window. I still have to eat 2700kcal in the end to loose weight.

So, if you don't have a good grasp how many calories what foods have, you still have to do your math. 

My diet is very consistent: oats for the breakfast, eggs and buckwheat for dinner, something different for my supper and cottage cheese for a late snack. Because I eat pretty much the same every time, I know how much calories I intake and don't need to make the calculations, but that's not for everyone , I suppose...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 9:23pm
Originally posted by Odie Odie wrote:





In general, what kind of diet were you eating in the window? When did the window open and close? Thanks.



During intermittent fasting, I basically eat anything I want.   Now, the reason I tried intermittent fasting is that I tried to show my friends that it would not work.

But now I understand why it works.   After you fast for so long, when you break your fast, you will find that you can't eat a lot.  Your body just can't take it.   So I find that intermittent fasting makes you eat less food, thus your intake calories < < your burned calories.  During fasting, your body also burns fat as there is no fuel intake (food).

I usually start eating at 12:00 PM and eat everything I want until 6:00 PM.   When I started it, I eat from 12:00 PM to 8:00 PM but I find it too easy.  You just basically skip breakfast.  So I stick with 6-hour eating window.   After 3 weeks (my body has adjusted well), my eating window is either 12:00PM - 4:00 PM   or   2:00 PM - 6 PM (4 hour eating window).   So, I eat only 4 hours a day, and fasting for 20 hours.

Starting from when you wake up, up to 12:00 PM, I drink few cups of tea (plain, without sugar).   Coffee is probably better because it can suppress your hunger better, but I don't drink coffee.   So I stick with tea.   So during intermittent fasting, you are allowed to drink tea or coffee or water, basically anything as long as it has ~zero calories.

I did not continue with intermittent fasting because my daily schedule often conflict with it.   I often have to meet clients and have lunch or dinner with them and it is really hard to stick to the schedule.

Keto diet is more suitable for my daily schedule.  I still can eat everything.   Usually you don't eat carbohydrate at all when you do keto diet, but in my case, I still eat a little bit of rice or potato, and still I lose weight.

The formula is actually calories IN < calories OUT.   That's all.





Edited by doraemon - 02/28/2020 at 9:31pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote doraemon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 9:27pm
I forget to mention ONE THING !!!

I cut my sugar intake.

I could drink Coke or Pepsi 3-4 cans a day.   During Intermittent fasting or keto diet, I don't drink soda at all.   I also take my tea plain without sugar.  Well, sometimes when I really crave for soda, I drink a can, but probably only one can per week or per 2 weeks.

I think the culprit of weight gain is sugar.   Try cut your sugar intake and you will see wonder.  

If you read the label on food or drink at local supermarket, you will be surprised how much sugar each contains.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 10:44pm
Originally posted by Simas Simas wrote:

keto, intermittent and so on... it does not matter in the end.

What matters is just simple physics -calories in - calories out= your weight (I am not talking about eating junk by the way)

So use the diet that is the easiest to follow. For me, intermittent fasting works well, but it does not mean, that if my daily calories requirement for maintaining constant weight is 3000kcal, I can eat 3300kcal in my feeding window. I still have to eat 2700kcal in the end to loose weight.

So, if you don't have a good grasp how many calories what foods have, you still have to do your math. 

My diet is very consistent: oats for the breakfast, eggs and buckwheat for dinner, something different for my supper and cottage cheese for a late snack. Because I eat pretty much the same every time, I know how much calories I intake and don't need to make the calculations, but that's not for everyone , I suppose...


Mostly this is very true (especially the necessity of keeping track of caloric intake of what you eat) but there are some caveats.  It is not quite just simple physics because bodies are a bit more complex than furnaces (we have evolutionary adaptations that allow us to withstand famines and such).  Calories that lead to surges in insulin secretion do tend to lead to more efficient conversion to fats that are stored.  It is ok to eat carbs but you need to focus on carbs with a lower glycemic index.  So simple sugar is definitely your enemy, and whole grains are not, unless you eat way too much of them. 

Bottom line:  eat a bit less, eat like a type-1 diabetic when you do eat, and also get aerobic exercise.  TT alone is probably not aerobic enough.  Bicycles are good.

Of course if you simply reduce caloric intake by whatever method you will lose weight.  It's not that calories in < calories out is false.  But you can make it a bit less painful and lose more weight for the same amount of caloric restriction by reducing the glycemic index of the carbohydrates you eat (you want low glycemic index foods).  Actually what Simas eats fits right into that scheme.  Also if you don't increase aerobic work you will not maintain it over the long term.  You need some carbs to maintain ideal glycogen stores in your muscles so as to perform well in sports.  But ideally those come from complex carbs. 


Edited by Baal - 02/28/2020 at 10:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Baal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02/28/2020 at 10:55pm
Here is a better explanation of some of the physiology.  Still a bit simplistic but it gets the idea across.

If you eat foods with lots of simple sugars, like sucrose or corn syrup, the blood glucose levels rise quite quickly shortly after eating.  This stimulates maximal insulin secretion.  This in turn stimulates a lot of glucose uptake into fat cells, and (especially important) it stimulates those fat cells to covert the glucose to fat.  Of course some is also taken up into liver and muscle and converted to glycogen, but mostly it goes to fat.

By contrast you eat complex carbohydrates that take longer to be digested, the rate at which blood glucose rises is much slower so you get substantially less insulin secretion.  Less is then converted to fat.  Diabetics are always advised to eat that way because what is left of their insulin signaling systems cope with it better.

So, 1000 calories of some complex grain like quinoa is not so bad, and 1000 calories of Coke is really bad.

Pure keto is pretty hard to sustain. But some versions of reduced carb/paleo seem to work pretty well for a lot of people.  Serves the same purpose of reducing insulin secretion.


Edited by Baal - 02/28/2020 at 11:00pm
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