New Style of Looping - Kenta & Ovtcharov

Aside from the exceptionally annoying off-topic posts about sid, this thread actually has merit. Loops delivered through torque are technically more difficult to perform as they require great timing but reward you with better post-stroke positioning on the court, while more force is delivered into to the ball using the more euro-style loop technique.

Tabletennis is such a hard game. At those top levels, using either technique is effective because of the slightly slower ralleys. There are so many marginals involved, and this is why someone like Boll is doing incredibly well post-speed glue age, because his style always involved placing the ball safely on the table with decent spin and speed at great angles.

Back when speed-glue was still used, Ryu had the most amazing FH loops, executed to perfection using his whole body, the whole range of his arm with maximum torque. Watching it live was mindblowing.

I just don't think it matters much anymore which method you use. Torque/speed is limited by the speed of the equipment we use, while spin and control seems to be a more deciding factor now.

S.O.M. wrote: But european loop stroke do not cover enough distance to be able to reach maximum velocity unlike Ryu.  How then is it more powerful?   IMO, this form of European stroke is even not dominant among europeans and therefore inferior like penhold to shakehand.  Think about it, all the great Europeans had Chinese form.  Ex. Waldner, Schlager, etc.

It's not more powerful. I'm just saying power is less important now post-glue era. Just look at Boll. What he lacks in power he makes up for in spin, control, and consistency. He rarely misses. As long as you hit the table, you're in the game to win the point.  That's why he's won the top-12 5 times. He's just too consistent, even tho he does not have the most powerful loops.

S.O.M. wrote: You are right, but this style of loop is so predictable.  It has no variation of spin either.  It doesnt seem to have any pro's.   Now, more player of those styles would be Samsonov and Waldner.  Anyone else comes to mind?

It's true. He's predictable. But it does not matter when skilllevels do not match their ability to predict. This seems to be the key component to bolls success. They can see the ball coming, but if he's able to put the ball on the table 95% of the time, while an opponent is only 90% consistent...you get the idea.

S.O.M. wrote: Jonan, if you look at the fastest baseball pitchers, their arm starts out straight, then folds to use their elbow and wrist.

The reason why they start out with the straight arm isn't to generate speed. Like someone mentioned, you do that to hide the ball. You can see this very often in Japanese and Korean players who pitches textbook style.

Ball speed comes from mainly the hip, shoulders, and the forearm. The arm has to be bent for more speed... if you threw with arm straight the whole time it would be very difficult to generate speed.
Even when you watch sidearm or "submarine" style pitchers you can see this... their speed is generated from the hips and shoulders.

S.O.M. wrote: I get the point, but what about the fact that for such an acceleration, you need room to gain maximum velocity?� Huge loop motions provide that, but compact ones like Kreanga, Ovtcharov, and Kenta's dont...

siiiiiiiiigh... Ever watch boxing or MMA? Do they flail about in a windmill fashion? Or do they start with bent arms in a quick acceleration? How long do you think it takes to get to maximum speed? There is nothing wrong about the general style how a majority of pros swing.

tpgh2k wrote: it's ok jonan....he's ignoring the fact of body rotation through the shoulders...that's why his analysis is flawed...

I made a huge point of explaining that early on, but he just keeps ignoring everything people say and keeps on with his first basic premise and asks for input while ignoring all input on it...seems just...so familiar...

SidK wrote: Hi, I am here.  Not good with my backhand.  I do agree as I watched Kreanga's tutorial that motion starts with shoulder and I heard some rumors that chinese only use their upper arm.  I dont know much.  But, I have seen Rosskopf whipping his backhand and it certainly looks different.  Is he using his whole body?  Whats the difference between those 2 strokes?   Thanks you'l xOx

Off topic, briefly: Who's "you'l"?

SidK wrote: Thats slang for you all, if I type you'll, it would become will.  Apologies for the confusion.   Thanks you'l xOx

No problem, sid. If you happen to be an ESL individual, you might not know this; however, the traditional spelling of that contraction is "ya'll". Just in case you wanted to know.

Thanks for clearing up the confusion. I was looking for someone with the username "you'l" and I couldn't find it. Hopefully you can forgive my confusion. There have been some crazies running around this forum lately.

   

SIDS EVERYWHERE!

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Thanks Krantz, you were a big help!  :)