Paraffin tuning : MEGATHREAD
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Topic: Paraffin tuning : MEGATHREAD
Posted By: Obachecka
Subject: Paraffin tuning : MEGATHREAD
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 9:41am
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Hello I want to open a new topic about tuning rubbers with paraffin ,which is also very cheap. Can you speakk/read german ? Here are many infos about paraffin tuning (>20 pages) : http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?t=51899 If you can't read or understand german i will summarize the infos for you or maybe it would be better if someone who speaks a better english summarizes it. Some first Infos : -it is definitely legal (vapor pressure of some paraffin oils is under 0,03mbar ) -it lasts with a great effect up to 8-9 (some say up to 14 days) days -parraffin is also contained in "Stiga Extreme Booster" -.... Greetings from germany Kevin ------------- Please advise me of each of my mistakes here, that will surely improve my english skills. Thanks ;-) |
Replies:
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 10:06am
If I can remove all the old glue from one of my cut sheets I will try it tonight. I just love new experiments!  ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:41am
is it true that most water based tuners are pure parrafine. Guys for prove look here
http://www.nittaku.com/products/03_mainte/01/image/speedaxel.pdf - http://www.nittaku.com/products/03_mainte/01/image/speedaxel.pdf
the ingredients of nittaku speed axel which is the same water based tuner as stiga extreme booster
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Obachecka wrote:Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:41am
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As far as I know there is a other tread here with a link to Borko & Son. They tune the rubbers with petroleum, which is very similar to praraffin oil. Greetings Roger ------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:42am
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Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:46am
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@ skyline: The Tuners are not water based, only several of the new voc-free glues. All the new tuners are based on "parrafin oil" The Tuners from Stiga and Nittakku are exactly the same product. CTE is also based on paraffin oil. Greetings Roger ------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:49am
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@ Obachecka: The vapor pressure limit for the tuners and the glues is not 0,03 mbar it is 0,3 mbar
------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:51am
sorry I meant voc free tuners.
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Posted By: Obachecka
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 5:19pm
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@ roger : Yeah thanks, you're right. i'm silly  But , so what ? Parraffine is still legal  ------------- Please advise me of each of my mistakes here, that will surely improve my english skills. Thanks ;-) |
Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 5:45pm
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@ Obachecka: As long as the vapor pressure is under 0,3 mbar, it is legal.
------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: Obachecka
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 5:50pm
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@ Roger : That's what I say.... @ All : So, what do you think of that ? Greetings ------------- Please advise me of each of my mistakes here, that will surely improve my english skills. Thanks ;-) |
Posted By: ksu06
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 6:08pm
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I think I heard somewhere that paraffin is the same as kerosene. Is this true? If so, I hear you can get it for like $3-$4 a gallon, which is a huge improvement over $40 for a few hundred ml of cte. ------------- Offensive CR FH: H3 (2.2) BH: V-Stage (2.0) |
Posted By: JKC
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 6:44pm
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Paraffin is a different name for kerosene. It is called this in the UK and a few other places around the world. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34kRbLNCcpk" rel="nofollow - Fred 49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGShBxEKnDk%20rel=" rel="nofollow - I once could serve |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:29pm
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Just for grins, I tuned a Sheet of Venus and a Sheet of 802-40 with Coleman fuel today. Two coats on the sponge and one on the top sheet. Yea, that is the fuel for camp stoves. The Venus topsheet is softer and much spinnier than new. Both picked up about 10% in speed. Don't know how long it will last but the sponges and topsheets reacted like "Right now". The 802-40 is on max sponge and so is the Venus. Don't know if it is leagle and don't care. Having fun experimenting. They both click loud and the spin off the Venus is huge.  |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/15/2008 at 11:41pm
it's not quite the same in the US. Lamp/paraffin oil is a slightly more distilled version of kerosene that burns cleaner.
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-lamp-oil.htm - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-lamp-oil.htm
------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: Jolan
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 1:40am
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OMG ! ITTF baned VOC glue in order to keep players away from nocive vapors, and now...look at that ! You put kerosene on your rubbers. For working in an airport, I can tell you kerosene isn't good for health. I wish Mr Shahara cannot read this or he will have a heart attack. ------------- Joola Wyzaryz Freeze Vega pro 2.0mm Vega intro 2.0mm Blade collection : https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9" rel="nofollow - https://photos.app.goo.gl/PrgCu5ib5RnhVXTn9 |
Posted By: Mr. Cermet
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 5:40am
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I tuned my Sriver L max with Paraffin (3 layers on the Sponge and 2 layers on the Topsheet) since 4 Weeks. The Effekt is equal to Speed Glue and the Effekt by Paraffin is continues for 2-3 Weeks.
------------- Nittaku Septear Cpen fh. BTY T05 2,1 RPB. BTY T64 2,1 My Videos!!! http://www.youtube.com/user/LeeJungWoo123456789 |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 6:18am
Coleman fuel is not pure parrafin oil, with naptha being another ingredient. I looked at the MSDS for coleman fuel last night but don't remember the other ingredients off hand. Some not legal from ITTF standpoint. From a chemical standpoint coleman fuel should work very well for tuning . The lasting effects would have to be experimented with..........gotta go now. Tiki torch oil is a more refined parrafin, but that brand also puts in citronella scent to repel mosquitos..........may make it smell better when tuning......bye for now. ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 9:20am
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Here's the link for Coleman Fuel MSDS:
http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf - http://www.coleman.com/coleman/msds/lantern.pdf
Page 4 at the bottom states ingredients. Definitely NOT LEGAL
 Closest readily available Parrafin oil in US is Kerosene, lamp oil or outdoor torch oil. Kerosene being the cheapest and lowest grade of the three.
pongcrazy ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 10:56am
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Thanks Pongcrazy
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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 1:19pm
the link is http://www.borkoandson.com/lampoil - www.borkoandson.com/lampoil
the thread swissping is talking about is
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16184 - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=16184 ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 1:58pm
It is not the same kerosene like the kerosene for the planes! Paraffin oil is not bad for the health!
------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 2:04pm
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Yes, thats right! Normaly, lamp oil or paraffin oil should be legal as long as the vapor pressure is unter 0,3 mbar. CTE, Stiga Boster and Speedaxel from Nittakku are all around 95% of praffin oil.
------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 3:53pm
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hey, wehre do you guys buy this stuff? I looked in save-on-foods yesturday and they didnt have it. would they have it in shoppers drug mart or.....??? thanks...my CTE is running out and i dont really feel like dishing out so much $$ for some more=P thnx guys
------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: JKC
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 5:00pm
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If you are not entering anything where you might get your bat sniffed, try some barbeque lighting fluid. I am lead to believe it is pretty much the same stuff but some could have some extra nasties in them. They don't seem to like writing exactly what is in them on the side. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34kRbLNCcpk" rel="nofollow - Fred 49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGShBxEKnDk%20rel=" rel="nofollow - I once could serve |
Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 5:01pm
try a pharmacy
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Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 5:14pm
http://www.borkoandson.com/lampoil - |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 5:49pm
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Here is the MSDS link for the brand and type Borko speaks of using in the posted link to his site. From the vapor pressure and ingredients it does look perfectly legal as far as the ITTF goes. This is the Ultra Pure, and it is different than the torch fuel and original lamp oil made by the same company, which may not pass enez due to higher vapor pressure. I have some torch fuel so I will try that anyway to see what the results are this weekend.
http://www.lamplightfarms.com/pdf/msds_ultra_pure_lamp_oil.pdf - http://www.lamplightfarms.com/pdf/msds_ultra_pure_lamp_oil.pdf
pongcrazy ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: LachlanTan
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 6:06pm
| Does this have odour like eucalyptus? |
Posted By: thethinker
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 6:34pm
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http://images.acehardwareoutlet.com/Products/6072185.jpg
I find it at Ace. $50 for 4 gal or $12.50/gal. |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 8:10pm
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thanks guys, i tried Rona then London Drugs...i got it from LD for $5.99/1 liter...gonna try it on a new sheet of h3 now xDD
------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 8:17pm
SWEET!!! can you make pictures of the dome and how it looks before you put it on later etc...?
I heard a hair dryer may be your friend if you are in a hurry to play with that slow drying product. ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: holda
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 8:36pm
| i am just not sure..after putting these substances on the sponge ,how can you possibly attach your rubber sheets to the blade?oily residue normally will not let any bonding!correct me if i am wrong.what kind of glue can hold something if the surfaces are oily? |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 8:42pm
It's supposed to be nearly oderless - a slight pretroleum smell.
The Ace Hardware website says it's only available through their catalog or over the web...darn.
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/%28las4ytryswmdmj45nnritf45%29/productDetails.aspx?SKU=998005823 - http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(las4ytryswmdmj45nnritf45)/productDetails.aspx?SKU=998005823 ------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: metalone
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 9:25pm
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I found it on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_/102-2115908-4922519?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Lamplight+6045+45Oz+Ultra+Pure+Lamp+Oil - http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_/102-2115908-4922519?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Lamplight+6045+45Oz+Ultra+Pure+Lamp+Oil
Also there are different purity grades, normal and ultra pure. http://www.lamplightfarms.com/lamplightlampoil.html - http://www.lamplightfarms.com/lamplightlampoil.html ------------- Gave up listing, too many changes. Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
Posted By: Flicker
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 9:38pm
Assume CTE is mostlly 95% of paraffin oil, what chemical makes it effects last so long? Anyone knows or has an idea?
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Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 10:56pm
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crap, i've started treating already =P i'll take a pic of when i'm done though. has anyone tried putting it on the topsheet too? i put some on an old h3 and it make the topsheet alot duller, but it felt a tad softer and restored its tackiness...anyone played with one with treated topsheet? i let it sit for a while after 3 layers, and the topsheet is now alot softer, and you know how when u wetglue some rubbers the topsheet becomes MUCH softer and the pips kinda show thru the topsheet and you get a bumpy topsheet (dude that plays VERY VERY good, all those who still glue should try it). anyway its becoming alittle like that. if it plays as gd as it looks then WOW ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/16/2008 at 11:52pm
make sure you rubbers are primed with a few coats of regular glue.
Before applying your lamp oil measure your rubbers.
Apply coats of lamp oil. Leave your rubbers overnight in a closed container (like a tipperware...).
The day after measure your rubbers and verify expansion.
Do not forget that the effects last a week or more so such a wait is no big deal.
After playing put your paddle with the rubbers on in a plastic bag and in a closed container.
If the day after it is still not dry but the sponge has expanded a 1/4 inch or so you are in business after using your hair dryer a little bit.
NOTE: If you are using the clicky press make sure to not press too tight: tightening a little bit with 2 fingers is just enough (the point is preventing the rubber to separate from the blade and high pressure is not only useless for that purpose it is also very bad for the sponge). ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: jingneogenesis
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 6:24am
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woah..few days ago i was reading the eucalyptus oil thread i was like get out of here man..a few days later i'm reading this thread..i'm like woah serious? lol. any1 got pix for the dome of the rubbers after its treated?thx all.. @fatt what happens if you glue the rubbers without the oil drying?will it stick?can you only stick the rubber after the sponge has expanded 1/4 inch?thx!! -jing- |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 8:32am
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After some research here are some examples of different products vapor pressures. ITTF states that vapor pressure at or above 0.3 millibars is illegal. I am assuming this is at the time of racket testing as it is not stated that way. I am listing the vapor pressure in mm Hg instead of millibars. 0.3 millibars = 0.225 mm Hg (the legal ITTF limit) 1) Heptane: 40.0 mm Hg @ 20*C / 68*F 2) Kerosene: <2.0 mm Hg @ 20*C / 68*F (At the gas pump kerosene) 3) Original lamp oil: 0.5 mm Hg @ 20*C / 68*F4) Citronella torch fuel: 0.5 mm Hg @ 20*C / 68*F
5) Ultra pure lamp oil: 0.01 mm Hg @ 20*C / 68*F
So... depending on when you treat your sponge and rubber, several of the listed products may pass the enez concerning vapor pressure, but the only one listed that would pass immediately after use would be the Ultra pure oil listed #5. The last 3 products are all made by Lamplight Farms brand.
pongcrazy ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 12:16pm
Hey guys, okay, so i put 13 *very thin* layers of the PO on my H3, and turned it into a tube. I applied it by putting some PO onto some bounty tissue clothe...so pretty nice even thin coats.    this was after the 13 layers of PO ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 12:24pm
then i put 5 layers of PO on the topsheet....  the PO smells less then CTE, and doesnt leave a film of rubber on the sponge/topsheet. I would guess the effect of PO will be mroe along the lines of CT rather then CTE. play with it tomorrow ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: tiehwen
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 12:33pm
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@7homuz
all these tuning w/so many coats of PO doesn't make this rbr heavy like dumb bell?
------------- http://mytabletennis.net/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17089" rel="nofollow - I love & am inspired by Malala Yousufzai's "True & Tough" LIFE STORY |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 12:46pm
if you glue the rubbers without the oil drying you will get some unplayable mess.
i generally find that an expansion more than 1/4 inch will make the rubber too bouncy ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 2:09pm
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Hi Fatt,,, Too fast or bouncy? No such thing for an attacking game. LOL I know what you mean, the short game might suffer. I have been moving away from the $50 rubbers and have been having a hard time finding a comperable substitute. When I tuned the Venus, it is very close to my old favorite, Energy GP. I also tuned a sheet of 802-40. It also picked up 10% more in speed and spin. Both are Max sponge. Treated both sponge and topsheet. The Coleman fuel softened the topsheet where the spin factor went up a huge amount. Have to try the pure lamp oil next. |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 7:33pm
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For those that want to try lamp oil, they have it at Walmart. Just look in the section of the store where they sell candles. I just bought 32 oz. of the Ultra Pure there for $4. They also had the Lamplight Farms regular lamp oil for about $1 cheaper.
[EDIT]: I just opening the bottle and can confirm the stuff is oderless. No smell at all. ------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 10:05pm
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even though it is odourless, try not to inhale too much and do it in a ventilated area, it does give you a headache (guess how i know =P) ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: LuckyNet
Date Posted: 02/17/2008 at 10:05pm
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Hi to everybody!
Today I did a test.... prepared a mix of Rubber Cement with parrafine ( oil lamp) (more oil than RC).
First 3 layer of Parrafine Oil (PO) and aplied it to old Innova rubber on the sponge because it already had glue on it. wait like 5 minutes each. Using glass glueing procedure.
2.- Aply 2 new layer of the mix waiting 5 minutes each.
3.- Aply 1 thinny layer of the mix to the blade and wait 10 minutes.
4.- Put rubber on the blade and apply preasure with hand made press for 30 minutes.
5.- After removed fron the press, aply a thinny coat on the top sheet and let it to dry.
6.- test bouncing a ball.... wow the rubber get a life again.
7.- Test with the robot, topspin, loops.
Lets see how long the effect of the tuning will be effective in days .... I�m going to leave the racket on the table tennis without cover.
Regards,
LuckyNet
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Posted By: bruno_ar2002
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 7:55am
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hi, Found this in a nearby store, Drakeol 7, light mineral oil, according to the internet its seems to be the same as paraffin oil. With vapore pressure < 0.1 mmhg. I'm going to try-it this week, on a used Sriver Fx Max, and a new H3 (comercial version). http://www.penreco.com/products/pdfs/whitemineraloil/Drakeol_LightMinOilNF-776510.pdf Method to use: 6(Sriver) and 10(H3) thin layers on sponge, 2 (Sriver) and 3 (H3) layers on topsheat. 1 day resting in a tapperware I'll post the result ... ------------- FH: H3B 40 BH: TGS 3-60 Blade: ZJ ALC |
Posted By: bruno_ar2002
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 9:30am
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heeelp .... I'm having some problems applying the oil, I've put two layers in one hour but it does not penetrate? Any suggestions? Should I continue putting one layers? Or should I what more time between layers? ty ------------- FH: H3B 40 BH: TGS 3-60 Blade: ZJ ALC |
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 12:14pm
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i'm sure we'd all love some more pics of how this stuff is working -- $4 for 32oz. makes this rather attractive, and a little demo would (i'm sure) sway many of us who are sitting on the fence....
------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 12:26pm
are you testing on a rubber that has been speed glued a zillion times? ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: gene
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 12:41pm
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that could be the case here. ------------- Acoustic F/h: globe999(black) B/h: Bryce FX(red) |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 1:33pm
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He also seems to be using White Mineral Oil, which I don't think is the same as paraffin oil. I tried some PO out last night. It did take awhile to fully penetrate the sponge (I was using pretty thick layers), and the back of the sponge still seemed a little bit oily this morning, but it definitely had domed. I had also not been careful enough around the edges of the rubber (it was already cut), and had some bubbling of the topsheet. Good thing it was only a $5 Dawei XP2008. ------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: JKC
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 2:03pm
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When I have used paraffin, the first few layers soak in after a couple of minutes and it takes a little longer after that. You should be able to get 10-15 layers on in 1 hour.
I have had really good results putting 20+ layers of paraffin on top of about 10 old layers of speedglue. ------------- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34kRbLNCcpk" rel="nofollow - Fred 49 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zGShBxEKnDk%20rel=" rel="nofollow - I once could serve |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 2:08pm
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i'm going to try it out tonight... i hope it was worth the effort! has anyone else actually played with theirs yet? ------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: bruno_ar2002
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 2:24pm
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one rubber was new and one was used. the problem seems to be that mineral oil and PO is not the same, very similiar but not the same, the mineral oils is very thick, like regular food oil, pretty similar to vaselin, I left it like 2 hs and did not penetrate much. have already order from amazon some PO, will see if it ships in .... :D ------------- FH: H3B 40 BH: TGS 3-60 Blade: ZJ ALC |
Posted By: LuckyNet
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 3:14pm
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Hi Bruno!
Mineral oil is not the same like Parrafine! Is very extrange that in Argentina does not have "Lamp oil" or "Kerosene" or "citronela".
You can find at supermarket or store that sales candels, things for picnic.
Hope this help you.
Regards,
LuckyNet.
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Posted By: LuckyNet
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 3:35pm
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2day .... Yesterday start the test with parrafine (oil Lamp) on old Innova rubber.
Today the ball still bouncing speedy, the rubber still 1/4 inch bigger than blade (Primorac Off -).
The top sheet have a lot friction when do loops.
In others words.... the parrafine is working.
To be continued....
LuckyNet.
|
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 7:40pm
Thanks LuckyNet
 ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 8:48pm
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OK, here are some pics...
Left is IQ that has previously been treated with eucalyptus oil and had rubber cement on it already.
Right is 2008XP that hasn't been treated before and from which I had removed almost all the rubber cement (you can still see a few bits here and there).
Both were about 3-4 thick layers of PO brushed on. This is about 24 hours later.
 ------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 8:51pm
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Here is the bubbling problem with the 2008XP
------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 9:24pm
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Looks like some oil got between sponge and topsheet and caused the topsheet to lift. After the effect wears off it should return to normal if you dont pick and mess with it, unless of course you really don't care. ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/18/2008 at 10:18pm
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Yeah, for this rubber I don't really care...but will leave it alone and see if it goes back down. ------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: LachlanTan
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 12:35am
| That better not do that with other rubbers.. |
Posted By: 7homuz
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 12:47am
|
i had a hit with it today, i think i put too much on the topsheet so it didnt really have the 'classic h3 feel' that i like when driving. much better for opening loops though. the effect of the PO is good, but not AS good as CTE. it did soften the sponge more then CTE tho IMO
------------- Blade:Darker 7P-2A Forehand: Donic Bluefire M2 MAX Backhand: Palio CK531A 0.6 |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 1:43am
|
As usual, there is lots of room for experimenting with something new. I put two layers on the sponge and one on the topsheet of an old worn out sheet of Nano Cannon. It had lost alot of it's grip. It now had better grip than new. The next day, I put another layer on the top without removing it. It is Way spinnier than new. The coleman oil softened the topsheet where it is almost tacky. Same thing happened with a well used sheet of Venus. I am going to keep treating the topsheet without removing them to see just how much effect it has. So far, it has not delaminated the top and sponge. I am hopeing the 100% lamp oil will work as well. Both picked up speed also. The Venus is almost as fast as Energy with just one treatment. Also did an 802-40. It picked up speed and spin. All of them have a pretty good click now. They are all max sponge. |
Posted By: GenomicsKnight
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 1:57am
|
@Hookshot Thanks for sharing the info! |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 6:39am
|
Thanks GenomicsK, Even with all that has been written about vapor points and such, it still remains to be seen what will really pass the Enez. Untill then, it is fun playing with different things. For those of you that have not been in manufacturing, let me tell you, whatever they are using for tuners, I would be surprized if they pay over $2 a gallon in quantity. How many 250ml containers can you fill with a gallon? Good profit to say the least. I hope somebody comes up with a "Proven" legal tuner that everybody can obtain. The manufactures also watch the forums to find trends. No, they don't post. |
Posted By: pongcrazy
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 6:53am
It will do it with every rubber if you get it between the topsheet and sponge - it depends on how careful you are during application. ------------- Viscaria, H3 Neo, Coppa X1 Gold 7p2a-7t, TG2 Neo, Acuda S2 |
Posted By: Brainstorm69
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 7:56am
|
yeah, I wasn't very careful with that rubber. I pretty much was just slopping it on with a brush. The IQ that had glue on it already doesn't have any problem. I think the glue kept the PO from getting on the edge of the rubber.
It would probably be better to use something other than a regular brush to apply it. Maybe I'll drop by the hardware store and get one of those sponge brushes. Or maybe http://mytabletennis.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=10675&FID=24 - 7homuz has the right idea using a paper towel to apply it. ------------- F3S | Tulpe T-7007 | F3S |
Posted By: Flicker
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 9:48am
Hookshot - Good to join you, GenomicsK, and others on this new experiment. Certainly agree with you on the profit margin that companies like Tibhar is making on their tuner. I myself couldn't resist and had forked out almost $50 for a small bottle of CTE and Clean Fix glue. :) (Just had to try it you know. ) Like others, I am interested in reading more reviews/feedbacks on the results that PO tuning can yield. I will make a trip to Walmart this afternoon to see if I can find some PO to try on some old rubbers myself. If it works just as well or nearly as well as CTE that would be great. But I agree more experiment is needed before we can reach that conclusion.
|
Posted By: Flicker
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 9:55am
Hi 7homuz - Thanks for the feedbacks. Have you played with CTE before? I am going to try it (CTE) out in next week so I will get an idea then. I will also try to experiment with PO to see what effects it has. In the mean time, I am just wondering if you or others have had experience with both of these tuners and can provide a direct side-by-side comparison on the speed, spin, and sound effects. That would be great. Cheers!
|
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 3:35pm
|
I tried it today but it was a big dissapointment. I did 3 layers and there was a really big dome. But when I played with the rubber there was no speed and spin at all... It feels just dead!.. No click sound no speed it was a nightmare... Ruined my training session...
------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: ttman
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 3:37pm
|
you need to wait atleast a day it takes a really long time to fully dry if you played with it wet, like even if the sponge looked dry if you lay it on something the oil would be all over it then of course it played bad ------------- |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 3:42pm
|
het ttman
you were fast to try it: did you buy the $4 32oz containter at Wal%$&#mart? ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 4:08pm
|
HimmmI waited for 5 hours and it looked dry but you say so...
------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 4:53pm
same problem here!
|
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:12pm
A: 15.141647213845494957375335667133 ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:14pm
|
so... if this is the same ingredient in CTE, why the conflicting results? i'm going to throw my hat into the ring, just got 2 gallons of tiki lamp oil myself (i know this isn't one of the legal alternatives, but it works -- theoretically -- the same way)
need MORE pics
 come on, this is a cheap experiment, need some more opinions... ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:16pm
|
so 250mL @ ~$30 X 15 / gallon = ~$450 gallon - ~$4 (actual cost) for...
roughly $445 dollar profit (before additives, labelling, shipping, marketing) PER GALLON, and they see most of that unless one of the additives is quite costly... ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: ttman
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:17pm
|
I think this is the reason clean tune comes in the container it does people are putting way to thick of layers on the rubber hence it never fully dries, the sponge aplicator is only applying 1-2ml's of this stuff at a time, using a normal tt speed glue brush ur getting atleast 5mls per layer ------------- |
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:39pm
|
good point, perhaps rubbing it on with a paper towel is in fact the best way to mimic that.. ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: ttman
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:41pm
|
or u could just use one of those $1 dawei or galaxy sponge wipes to apply ------------- |
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:43pm
|
yeah, i'm saying as opposed to your standard brush. ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: swissping
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:52pm
You have to wait t'ill the layers are completely dry! With a hair dryer you can accelerate the drying process and the speed glue effect is really great!
------------- VH:Samba Joola BH:Armstrong Rosin Blade: TRinnova Sonar Blade --------------------- www.trinnova-blades.com / Handmade Blades |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 5:56pm
|
Hi Swissping,,, I agree and I have been applying it with a paper towel as well. |
Posted By: TSuBaSa
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 6:06pm
|
Ok then I'll get a sponge and try it again... Thanks guys...
------------- Nittaku Tenaly Acoustic Inner Carbon Joola Rhyzer Pro 50 & 45 |
Posted By: Jack87
Date Posted: 02/19/2008 at 8:22pm
|
k, i have 3 sheets i'm trying it on... 2 sheets of 729 Focus, and one sheet of (1.5mm) 729 Super FX.
All 3 are expanding nicely -- in addition, i'm applying small, steady layers of veggie oil on the black sheet of focus, which for some reason is quite slick. seems to be doing some good (also tried one small layer of my ingredient X -- Tiki Torch Oil -- on the topsheet, which seemed to clean it nicely).
as i said, the sponges are expanding nicely; quite expected on the focus sponges, which react quite well to glue; pleasantly surprised by the effect on my 1.5mm super FX (which started out around 44*):
- several degrees softer
- much rejuvenated topsheet, after just 1 veggie oil treatment
- went from sitting flat to perhaps a 4" dome
- i couldn't really get an effect with the speed glue i used previously, on this sponge i mean, so this is pretty good news
the effect was good enough for me to consider putting the FX on my brand new 729 bomb (have some HMO ox for blocking on the bh) instead of the focus that came on it (that i'm also treating atm). if the next few layers take as well as the first few, i think i probably will -- kind of scared to go into the club tomorrow (last time for a while -- Army calls) without a real tacky topsheet. ------------- Gambler Kevlar ST Nittaku Refoma (1.5mm) Yasaka Phantom 011 (OX) |
Posted By: GenomicsKnight
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 12:00am
Well, I experienced pretty much the same as TSuBaSa did. I tuned a Yasaka New Era and a 729 Ligtening with 3 thick coats of paraffin. Let them dry for about 8 hours. This morning when I check on them they all rolled up severely like some taquitos. I stuck them to a blade and put the whole thing in a press. Another 8 hours later I took it out of the press and had a few hit with it. No noticeable speed, spin gain. No click sound at all. 3 minutes later into the session the edges started to curl up and eventual both rubbers just came separating out and flapping. That's when I noticed the glue it's still wet! I guess the paraffin is not completely dried yet. Will continue to experiment and report later when I have something new. |
Posted By: gene
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 12:06am
|
yeah, that stuff takes quite a long time to dry, unlike the E-oil. what about CTE? ------------- Acoustic F/h: globe999(black) B/h: Bryce FX(red) |
Posted By: Hookshot
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 12:19am
| It helps if you treat the topsheet also untill you get less dome. The whole sheet expands. |
Posted By: GenomicsKnight
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 12:28am
Good idea. I will try that in my next two rubbers: TG3 and Sriver. |
Posted By: metalone
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 1:28am
|
If the tuners that are being used such as CTE, SOO etc., uses 95% Paraffin Oil, the other 5% could be a Solvent. When you mix a solvent with another material with a lower vapor pressure, the solvent vapor pressure will lower as well. This is known as Raoult's Law and the change can be calculated. I believe that speed glue works from the outgassing of a solvent, through the hardened glue (correct me if I am wrong). This would also account for the shortened affect that speed glue has, due to the higher outgassing rate, compared to PO. This is just my hypothesis, but when I get the PO that I ordered, I will add a solvent and then check the affect. ------------- Gave up listing, too many changes. Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
Posted By: gene
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 1:32am
|
where can you get solvent?
------------- Acoustic F/h: globe999(black) B/h: Bryce FX(red) |
Posted By: GenomicsKnight
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 1:45am
Any guess on what does the solvent do when mixed with paraffin? |
Posted By: metalone
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 1:49am
|
There is a large list of solvents, from water (dont recommend), Hexane, Alcohol, Benzene, Acetone, D-limonene (contained in cleaners). Not sure what to try or where to get it as this time, but I am still waiting for my PO to be delivered. ------------- Gave up listing, too many changes. Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
Posted By: metalone
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 1:54am
|
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=13681&FID=24 - GenomicsKnight - The solvent will outgass out of the PO, into a gaseous state, at a rate defined by the vapor pressure of the solvent. I believe the solvent is what causes the sponge to expand in speed glue. To me CTE has a slight sweed smell, I don't know what is causing the smell, but it is the material that is outgassing from your sponge / rubber. ------------- Gave up listing, too many changes. Blade - Yes BH - Rubber Red FH - Rubber Black |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 1:57am
following raoult's law, how many units of paraffin oil should we add to ONE unit of productX in order for the final product to pass the enez test?
answer with ProductX =
1) D-Limonene (the solvent that is CLOSEST to pass the enez test right now).
2) Cyclohexane
3) Ethyl Acetate
4) Naphta
Remember that the mix 50/50 of 2 and 3 is probably the most efficient booster out there however it is soooo illegal.
------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |
Posted By: stiltt
Date Posted: 02/20/2008 at 2:00am
|
by the way metalone your contribution in that thread is REALLY REALLY cool! ------------- /forum/topic91512_page1.html#1124698" rel="nofollow - sales - forum_posts.asp?TID=19315" rel="nofollow - feedback |