ST vs FL Handles-Does it matter?
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Topic: ST vs FL Handles-Does it matter?
Posted By: strulag
Subject: ST vs FL Handles-Does it matter?
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 3:28pm
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I would like to know what everyone's opinion is on the pros/cons as far as playing/technique of these handles or if it even matters at all. I did a search and read some threads but they are mostly about personal preference or comfort. I have been playing with a Yasaka blade that's FL and held other people's blades with ST FL and AN handles. I have big hands with thick fingers and I personally don't like the thinness of the FL handle at the top. It almost feels like it's not there. I did like how the ST and even AN felt but I never played with them. Now as far as stroke, power, technique, etc... does it make a diff? I heard things from more adv players like: ST is better for backhand or ST is better for closer to table play where FL is better for far away. Is that true? And why? |
Replies:
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 3:50pm
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I have both ST and FL. I like ST when I can get it. FL feels too narrow around where the handle meets the blade. I think it is a matter of preference not performance. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 3:59pm
None of the this is really true. Examples, Ma Long plays close to the table and uses FL along with most other Chinese players, and Maze and Timo both use ST and are often away from the table.
Mostly it comes down to personal preference, but a lot of it depends of how you hold your racket. ST handles are very popular with players that rotate their grip quite a bit from FH to BH, such as Timo and Maze. This is because the handle usually fits in the hand the exact same however you rotate it, where as a FL would press into the hand at larger than normal angles. Players that tend to hold the racket at the same position on both sides usually use FL, such as most Chinese players or even Schlager for a European example. But mainly it comes down to personal preference.
Just as a side note, usually the FH hook serve is easier to do with a ST handle than a FL because the extra width of a FL at the bottom can bump into the top of your wrist when you rotate your wrist back. ------------- Primorac Carbon MX-P | EL-P |
strulag wrote:Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 4:02pm
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I tell customers that it's a matter of personal preference except for the style of player that uses contrasting sides (aka inverted and long pips or anti.) For that style of play, at a higher level you want to be able to "twiddle" or flip the blade mid point. They tell me that straight works much better if you're doing this. ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 4:05pm
That is usually true, my SK7 is my chopping blade and it is a ST handle. It definately flips around in my hand more smoothly than my other blades which are all FL. ------------- Primorac Carbon MX-P | EL-P |
Posted By: Carbon TT
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 4:06pm
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double post ------------- Primorac Carbon MX-P | EL-P |
Posted By: Peter C
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 4:49pm
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If twiddling is part of your game, straight works better because it sits more naturally in the hand, after the twiddle. |
Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 4:54pm
The techniques for FL and ST handles are a little bit different... FL handles allow you to keep the racket head up easier than ST to keep balance of the racket in your hand easier, but the flip side is you must maintain a more flexible wrist to let the racket head drop a bit more than using ST handles before hitting the ball with force. For long distance looping (and chopping) FL handles let you incorporate a noticeable "hooking" motion at contact with your wrist, which for the Chinese they feel is helpful in the 40mm ball era. FL handles also allow for better maneuverability at the table for short pushes and flicks. ST handles, on the hand, provide full contact with the user's palm at all times, so a more consistent, stable and powerful stroke can be performed. |
Posted By: gatz
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 4:56pm
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From a lady opinion, most of us like the flare handle because most of us has smaller hands and we would like to have a good grip on our blade it so comfortable. Well fo me with the exception of darker fl handle which i could not really have a good grasp of the neck of the blade and i dont like that feeling. Most of the ladies usually have short pips either bh or fh so flare handle is not a big deal when twiddling because the combo is lighther. For me, the only time i will use st handle if my combination is borh smooth rubbers much easy to do the bh. ------------- Blade: ZJ SZLC, Garayda 5000 Matador Texa Rubbers: FH::Symmetry SP BH: Tenergy Hard, FH: MoristoSP ax BH: Tenergy Hard,FH:Desperado 2 BH: Omega 7 Asia |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 7:21pm
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I'm experiencing paralysis by analysis regarding handles. I can't find the right one at a price I can afford.
When it comes to ST handles, I've discovered that I prefer an oval profile over the more rectangular profile with rounded edges. The oval profile yields more surface area for a more secure grip. I'm particular about the width and thickness of the ST handle as well. For example, the ST handle of the Donic Persson Powerplay is both too narrow and too thin, while those on the Waldner series are noticeably wider and thicker. Those same handles, however, to me, have a slight taper towards the end, which again I don't like.
I'm playing with a FL handle at the moment, but I really don't like how the thickness of most FL handles tapers towards the neck. On some FL handles, both the width and thickness taper towards the neck. Those are the worse for me. The most comfortable FL handles IMHO are those with an oval profile, constant thickness, like ST handles, are wider than average, and flare out gradually towards the end. The Donic Persson Powerplay FL handles meet the last requirement but not the rest. Sigh.
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Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 7:23pm
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Posted By: TheRobot99
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 8:23pm
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Try the JOOLA Wing blades' flared handles. They're quite thick though attacking with the backhand will require some alterations. Personally I prefer thick flared handles so I don't feel like I'll throw the blade on hard forehands. It matters for me, but only as a matter of preference. ------------- Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
Posted By: loop+loop
Date Posted: 04/12/2011 at 9:09pm
| For me I find that as I get more advanced in the game , I realise that gripping the handle too tightly isn't at all that good. I get a better swing of the blade if I don't grip too tightly. I also feel the ball better with a loose grip. The FL handle offers a loser grip and a better swing. After trying out ST and AN handles, I finally settled for the FL handle. |
Posted By: speedy
Date Posted: 04/13/2011 at 1:18am
I have played with all handles. ST is my preference. Why? Well, I found that ST is better for my BH close to the table. It's better for my FH flip on the table. I can change the angle of the racket quicker and easier for differently shots. With FL, it was good for my FH loop and my BH passive blocks. I couldn't counter attack with my BH using FL handle. With AN, I smashed the ball very well with FH and can do almost everything with my BH. However, I couldn't loop well on my FH. So, there you go... Keep in mind that different handles will fit different styles... 95% of my blades are in ST. The other 5%, they are discontinued blades or I can't find ST handles for them  Good luck... ------------- SPEEDY Viscaria Super ALC ST JOOLA Rhyzen CMD(FH) Nittaku Moristo SP (BH) |
Posted By: strulag
Date Posted: 04/13/2011 at 8:55pm
| Very good info here from everyone. That's what I was looking for. I guess I'll also see for myself as I ordered my first ST handle blade. I've been playing with a Yasaka FL and like most people that don't like a flared handle, it's because of how thin it is where it meets the head. I got a Timo Boll ALC with ST handle which is pretty square-ish from what I hear. I will switch back and forth between the two to see how I like them both for the handle difference and feel of how they play. I will update more once I get to play both. |
Posted By: strulag
Date Posted: 04/13/2011 at 8:59pm
I'll keep this in mind and try to see if I have the same experience. Mind you I still don't have all my strokes fully developed but I have a robot at home which I can setup pretty much any shot and I will try all these shots you describe with both blades. |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 04/13/2011 at 9:43pm
| I prefer FL but I do like to rotate the grip slightly between FH and BH loops which would be better with a straight handle. I often loop with a fairly loose hand though and hold the blade near the head which is better with FL, overall FL is what I prefer |
Posted By: qynthnghm
Date Posted: 04/14/2011 at 12:56am
| Does anyone occasionally get a sort of blister on the fleshy part of your palm right at the base of the middle and/or ring finger? I'm wondering if that problem comes with both ST and FL handles. Although I've primarily used FL (Stiga Legend, Nittaku), the one ST handle I've used (Matsush*ta Pro) has given me the same problem. Perhaps it is just the shape of the handle (roundish or squarish)? The only way I can lessen the problem is to do a light sanding but otherwise it still happens to me from time to time. |
Posted By: Snakefish
Date Posted: 04/14/2011 at 2:01am
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I have always used Flared handles. Of course, not all flared handles are designed/created the same, depending on the manufacturer. I decided to experiment with a ST handle a couple months ago - Yasaka Max Carbon 3D. I and my friends found this handle kinda thick for a ST. For me, this handle didn't give me the nimbleness I'm used to in my shots with a FL handle. Therefore, I've abandoned ST and will order a FL version of this blade. ------------- Andro Treiber Z - fl FH: Tibhar MX-D max BH: Tibhar Quantum ProX-blue,max |
Posted By: Tinykin_2
Date Posted: 04/14/2011 at 11:28am
I have that permanently during the TT season. Players' grip is either biased towards the thumb/index or the last 2 fingers. The first type play a lot on spin. While the second type are more into drives. These are just generalisations of course. In reality there's a combination. ------------- Member of Single Ply Club. Shakehand, Kauri wood by American Hinoki, 1-ply 7mm. FH> Gambler Reflectoid. BH> Yasaka Mark V |
Posted By: pkan
Date Posted: 04/14/2011 at 6:35pm
In Korea, many view ST handles as men's handles while FL as women's handles. They think this way because men have bigger hands and ST handles are more comfortable for bigger hands. Honestly, I don't really feel much of a difference between the two in terms of performance but I personally prefer ST handles. 
------------- Neo TG3 + Ebonholz V + Sriver G3 |
Posted By: strulag
Date Posted: 04/15/2011 at 11:56am
| I have a big had as well and that's pretty much the reason I want to try the straight. Hearing the different things though about grips and play I wanted to inform myself and know what I'm getting into. Looking forward to experimenting with both on my robot. |
Posted By: ttran82
Date Posted: 04/15/2011 at 6:34pm
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This discussion lured myself into trying ST handle.... I'm waiting for my first ST handle to ship...........itchy hands  Can't wait to try it out....
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Posted By: Antiq
Date Posted: 04/16/2011 at 1:48am
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I played AN, FL and ST (I don't twiddle) ... all felt different... AN is the most comfortable. ST has the most free wrist movement. FL... not sure how to discribe the feel.. To me, handle shape (as above) don't really matters..
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Posted By: Dont Chop MeNow
Date Posted: 04/17/2011 at 4:12pm
| I use the Matsush*ta Pro qynthnghm is talking about and I can attest to the blistering effect of its handle. I've grown a thick callus there and it becomes sore after a particularly long night of playing. It seems that the area in question gets pinched between the finger and the handle. I suspect that the handle itself is to blame being that, with FL handles, the that spot by the middle finger is generally dipped and not in a position to apply pressure to the finger. I haven't tested this to make sure, though. |
Posted By: jujo
Date Posted: 04/18/2011 at 1:02am
Can always do something like this  Best of both worlds
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Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 04/18/2011 at 3:34am
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I just noticed that my Toxic 5 also has a straight handle. The Toxic 5 is a defensive paddle but one may want to twiddle with it. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: strulag
Date Posted: 04/18/2011 at 1:57pm
I don't understand...If AN is the most comfortable and ST has most free movement how can handle shape not matter? |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 06/20/2011 at 4:30pm
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I usually play with ST handles, and I like the extra freedom of movement they give w.r.t. FL. However, I like experimenting with new blades, and my next two candidates are flared and conical. I just grabbed the bats for a few swings and noticed that conical fills my hand nicely, while with the FL handle I noticed that I actually hold the racket differently. Due to the fact that the handle is thinner at the top, I tend to hold the racket slightly slanted forward (as compared to the 90 degrees up typical shakehand position), with the fingertips contacting the lateral edge of the handle at the thinnest part of the handle, rather than curling around to touch the forehand side of the handle. As a result, the racket is extending slighly more outward, in the direction of the forearm, as if it were a "tenaly" handle with a more gentle curve. Does anybody else holds the racket that way? Don't know if this is clear. If not, I'll post pictures. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 06/20/2011 at 5:44pm
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I think I know what you mean arg0. I've played with ST before and it does feel more solid and "locked in" but FL does have the slight ergonomic advantage in that the middle and ring fingers can be a little closer to the centerline of the blade. I prefer to play penhold with a FL handle for the same reason in that my thumb is in a better location. My current blade is not made in cpen handle but I don't mind. |
Posted By: mizutani_jun
Date Posted: 06/20/2011 at 8:09pm
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I have all types of handle for my Korbel.
ST,FL,AN and CO.
I can play with all these type of handles.
But ST and FL is easy to get so i always buy either of these types.
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Posted By: TheRobot99
Date Posted: 06/20/2011 at 8:25pm
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I got to play with someone else's racket and he has a straight handle.
However, it felt quite comfortable and didn't feel like it would fly out
of my hand with a hard swing. I've used some Butterfly flared handles,
though, and they felt like if I swing too fast, it would fly out of the
building. But those were thin flareds. The best handle to date that I've
ever used is a flared Wing Medium. It feels very solid and comfortable.
------------- Ross Leidy Custom, DHS Hurricane III Neos, Nittaku Nodias Xiom Fuga, Globe 999 National 39, Nittaku Nodias JOOLA Torre All+, DHS Hurricane II #19 Sponge, Galaxy Moon 38 PTTC VP - 2011-12 |
Posted By: thaittstar
Date Posted: 06/20/2011 at 11:27pm
| Straight one will let racket move more in your hand. This is good for change grip between forehand and backhand which good player must do quickly. Stiga blade have bigge chunky handle but my hand small so I go for Butterfly. |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 06/20/2011 at 11:27pm
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I favored ST. for years until I experienced the great FL of the Donic Epox Blades. Not thin at all where the handle meets the blade. Very comfortable for all strokes. I do not like the squared ST handles on BTY blades, very strange feel. ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: arg0
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 1:46am
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I also found XIOM FL handles to be very comfortable and not thin at all. Still prefer ST, though. Never had the impression that the racket is "flying away". Maybe because I also apply some pressure with thumb and forefinger. ------------- Nexy Arche & Nittaku Violin LG. Join the forum_posts.asp?TID=47778" rel="nofollow - Nexy Clan ! Also member of Violin & 1-Ply clans. |
Posted By: racquetsforsale
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 1:52am
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In the end, it's all about discovering your personal preference through experimentation. When choosing FL handles, pay attention to the curvature reversal of the wings and where the wings merge into the handle. Most if not all Stiga and Yasaka blades have wings that reverse in curvature less abruptly and merge lower down the handle than the wings of other blades. For some, these two features combine to make FL handles uncomfortable because one of the wings bites into the middle finger. ST handles may have a similar problem but the effect is less bothersome because the handle does not taper. Pay attention to the contour of the FL handle---some FL handles are straight from the top of handle to the middle of the handle and then flare out while others are thin in the middle, large at the top, and still larger at the bottom. With ST handles, pay attention to the cross section of the handle. I find that an oval cross section offers maximum contact area between handle and hand, hence offering the feeling of a more secure grip. Rectangular and square cross sections with rounded edges feel less secure in the hand to me. |
Posted By: strulag
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 10:58am
| Well I absolutely love my ST handle. I have so much more freedom of movement with the backhand. And I never had the feeling that it will slip out of my hand not even once. I don't know why people would be afraid of that at all. So I am now a ST handle player. |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 2:29pm
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For feel, and if I had to do only 1 type of shot - straight squared is the best for me. Like Korbel straight. But during game it is easier to adjust grip with a round straight. Like Donic Senso. Flared it the best for wide forehand loop. But is difficult for backhand because the flared part goes in my palm. Also, difficult to do certain types of serves. If you have big hands like me and adjust grip a lot in midplay try the Stiga straight handles - they are chunky and fairly rounded so quite easy to adjust grip with those. ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: assiduous
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 2:44pm
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Here is what I did to my Galaxy W6 FL. For those of you who have it you know it is too thin in the neck and way too wide and the end of the handle. It is impossible to compress your wrist enough for a banana backhand. So I sanded (grinded ) the handle where the shaded are is. Now i feel no restriction on my backhand and still comfy for a loose forehand. Has anyone tried this ? http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/146/handlem.jpg/">  ------------- puppy412 : Sorry man, I don't mean to sound disrespectful, but I know that more training will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: strulag
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 6:15pm
I did hold a Stiga ST handle and I did like the feel of it |
Posted By: ttran82
Date Posted: 06/21/2011 at 7:07pm
Yes...I did this to most of my FL handle blades: TB ZLF, Violin, TB AL, 729 V-6, DHS PG3. Did I miss any?
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