Review: Tuttle Beijing IV
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Topic: Review: Tuttle Beijing IV
Posted By: roar
Subject: Review: Tuttle Beijing IV
Date Posted: 02/29/2012 at 10:31pm
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If you look on the ITTF website, the top sheet has the same logo/stamp/id number as the other versions of Tuttle Beijing - and therefore is the same exact top sheet. The IV version of this product is simply a different sponge. Here is a post regarding the other versions: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27305&title=new-product-tuttle-beijing-3-with-purple-sponge - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=27305&title=new-product-tuttle-beijing-3-with-purple-sponge Initial impressions: - The rubber is vacuum sealed, and opening up the rubber made my apartment smell like a rubber cement factory blew up inside of it. - Although the topsheet does not feel tacky, it can pick up a ball and hold it for a few seconds quite easily. - This rubber is extremely soft. The softest prior to this that I have hit with is the Xiom Vega Elite - and this thing is like a pillow by comparison. - The rubber sheet is also small - it barely fits onto my Matsush*ta Pro Special My Review: As I previously posted, this rubber is ungodly soft. There's both advantages and disadvantages to this and it has me questioning whether or not I want to keep using this rubber. I play a modern defense style, trying to mimic Sun Jian Fei as closely as possible. The Good: Chopping: Strangely enough, this rubber truly excels at chopping. In both short pushes and long chops, I was able to keep the ball on the table with extremely forceful swings. I plan on trying this rubber out on a slow paddle, such as my innershield, and attempting a classical defense due to the immense control of this rubber. Blocking: This is a tacky rubber similar to a typical Chinese top sheet, and blocking topspin drives is easy as a result. Counter-Loops: If Tenergy 05 at 1.9 thickness is an 8.5/10, then I would put this rubber at a 7/10 in speed. The control helps counter loops stay on the table, but it still has that boosted feeling I enjoy in tenergy. Pushes and Serves: I have no trouble giving spinny or dead serves/pushes with this rubber and keeping them short. In the short game, it feels a lot like Hurricane 3 Neo - but with a significantly more 'pillow-ish' feeling. The Bad: Looping Chop: There's something about this sponge that makes looping a chop feel awful. I feel like the sponge is just way too soft for this purpose. More on this in my conclusion. The Ugly: This rubber is LOUD. If there's one thing I did not like about hitting hard flat shots is how loud this rubber becomes. It literally sounds as if I'm breaking the ball if I hit at 40% strength or more. I had someone lob a few shots which I drilled as hard as I could, and it had a few people stop playing and inform me that I was hitting with a broken ball - even though it was not actually broken. Conclusion: This would be an excellent rubber for an intermediate player. I know many players who simply will never attack a chop and will always push it back. I call these players 'mirrors' - if you top spin, they topspin; if you chop, they chop. This seems to be the perfect rubber for that type of game. A classical defender might enjoy this rubber as well due to the excellent control in the chopping game, but I cannot see an all out attacker wanting to use this rubber due to the overwhelming softness in the sponge. If you have any questions, please pm me or post them here and I'll do what I can to answer them. There are other testers as well - and I'm willing to bet many of them are attackers who may have a different impression, so please only take this review as one person's opinion among many.    ------------- http://i.imgur.com/wqnxV.gif |
Replies:
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 12:43am
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What thickness did you get? I told Razortt that I would compare Tuttle Bejing to T05 but it may be a closer match to IQUL SV. I have two sheets of IQUL SV ( max and 1.8mm ) that I can use to compare with. The prices are similar too. Comparing Tuttle Bejing with T05 is probably unrealistic. I won't be able to get to my sheet till this week end. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 12:51am
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They are all 2.15mm. And its "Tuttle Beijing 4"
------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 1:11am
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Just got mine too, gonna try it out on Friday. The thickness is slightly less than max, the sponge is about 2.1mm thick, it comes with a thick glue layer. It's indeed very soft; the listed hardness is 36 degrees. The size of the uncut rubber is about 165x165mm. The uncut weight is 59.6 grams, so a weight density of 0.2189 grams/cm^2, which is fairly light. There's a smell to it, but I didn't think it was THAT strong. It smells like a regular new rubber. The thick glue layer does indicate that it might have been pre-tuned. I've taken some pictures, I'll post them when I get to my review which will take some time because first impressions are usually pretty inaccurate. For now, here's a pic comparing pip structures: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2231/beijing401.jpg - http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2231/beijing401.jpg (didn't embed the picture because it's too big) Top to bottom: Moon max, Beijing4, H3NP, T64, H3N. The lighting is kinda bad but I think you can see that the pip structure seems fairly similar to that the H3Neo's. The topsheet, however, is noticeably thinner, though not terribly thin like say the Shark II's. The T64 has much longer pips and a thinner topsheet. The topsheet is completely nontacky, I can't pick up the ball at all even right out of the package. I'll stick it onto my backup blade(Sanwei F3) first, with the Beijing 4 and the H3P 39(not neo), and later on the T64, comparing the Beijing 4 to those rubbers. Later on, I'll put it on my primary blade comparing with the T64, which I think would be more similar in feel given how soft this rubber is. Lastly, I'll try it on my T11, which I actually think will likely suit this rubber the best since the T11 loves softer rubbers.
------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: domino
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 5:15am
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how cost is it? ------------- Blade : 729 Bomb FH : 729 Cream Transcend BH : DHS Neo Hurricane 3 |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 9:32am
http://fastpaddle.com/tt/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_1_33&products_id=278 - http://fastpaddle.com/tt/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=6_1_33&products_id=278 ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
domino wrote:Posted By: atv
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 9:36am
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How can it be called a national version but obviously no one in national team is using it ------------- YEO FH: 729 08 ES BH: Focus III Snipe Senkoh-1 FH: H3 Comm BH: 755 |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 9:44am
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Isn't it National because of having four edges? |
Posted By: atv
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 9:50am
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Nope, because of the shabby plastic bag ------------- YEO FH: 729 08 ES BH: Focus III Snipe Senkoh-1 FH: H3 Comm BH: 755 |
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 1:05pm
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There are a lot of players on the national team. Many are just practice partners. Sometimes it refers to the junior national team. Basically, if could get anybody on the national team to even TAKE a rubber from you, it could be called national team. Maybe they deliver it like a summons :) ------------- Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b Please let me know if I can be of assistance. |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 03/01/2012 at 1:20pm
No they just call the rubber "National Team", like "Sriver", "Tenergy" etc. Kinda misleading, isn't it?  |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 12:36am
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DAY#1: I received a sheet of Tuttle Beijing 4/2.15/36º in Black today. Although I have not yet affixed it to my blade, my initial impression is this: Excellent packaging . . . solid cardboard folded cover with simple and clear logo and information. Inside the rubber is shrink wrapped and comes with two protective sheets that are much like the Butterfly sheets . . . very nice! There is a glue smell, but I didn't notice until I got really close. The rubber is soft and grippy, but not sticky like most Chinese rubbers. There is no way i could pick up a ball with this top sheet. The sponge is soft and flexible. I will hit with it on Saturday, and I am very hopeful! DAY#2: Lightweight. I didn't notice at first, but picking it up today it seems light. I don't know if it's smaller or not, but regardless of the size it must be lighter than most inverted rubbers. DAY#3: I glued the rubber onto a standard 5-ply shakehand racket. It was easy to assemble using YES Paste. One negative . . . the sheet is on the smaller side . . . just barely covering the blade, especially on the sides. DAY#4:
------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 1:55am
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The hardness feels true to the rating, as it's about the same as the T64, maybe a tad softer. It's also pretty bouncy for a Chinese rubber, just a tad less than the T64. I'll try it out in club play tomorrow. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 9:00am
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I have also received the rubber: Black/max. Will begin testing this weekend.
Just giving you guys short initial impressions: good packaging, supple topsheet, very soft sponge, barely tacky (similar to bejing3 purple sponge). Have more euro feel than chinese. More to come... ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: lildudejds
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 9:30am
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Not even close to hardness of T64, WAY SOFTER. ------------- Nexy Hannibal Tenergy 05 Tenergy 05 FX |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 10:27am
I agree. It's way softer. I'm not sure what dingyibvs is thinking haha. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: sa01
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 10:42am
the hardness is the same as tenergy 64 more or less. you are crazy man..... |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:03am
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Any comments on the weight of the sheet? I've got a Beijing II here and it's really heavy. Good otherwise though, especially for the £4.99 price! ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:13am
This Beijing 4 is a totally different beast, it has the offensive power but with amazingly soft sponge, and very light weight, which is quite a pleasant surprise! ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:25am
Sounds interesting. I wonder how it compares to Shark 2 RS Soft? If it's like Beijing II but with a softer/lighter/bouncier sponge then it could be really nice... ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:26am
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Hey, I started this thread. Why am I bumped down several posts? :-0 ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:41am
This sponge is light and fast, not the same as the previous generation of Beijng123. Uncut weight is about 56grams and this thing is LOUD when play! ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:45am
You have the rubber? You must have just bought it because you aren't on the tester list.
I hope you aren't confusing this rubber with one of the older Beijing rubbers. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:54am
Hi, this thing is softer than Tenergy64, if you use beijing 1,2,3 before, this is a totally different beast, and this comes with white sponge. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 11:58am
Yea...dunno what I was thinking, feeling it again today it's def softer I wouldn't say way softer though, maybe a degree or so.------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: roar
Date Posted: 03/02/2012 at 5:09pm
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Updated with my review, sorry it took a day longer. ------------- http://i.imgur.com/wqnxV.gif |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 12:21am
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I tried it out tonight on my Sanwei F3, with a 1.9mm T64 on the other side. The rubber felt surprisingly good, I didn't have to many many adjustments. In general, I agree with roar's assessment. This rubber offers excellent control in all areas of the game, offense and defense, short and long. The speed is indeed a bit slower than a 1.9mm Tenergy, and my clubmates thought so as well. The throw is a tad bit lower, but not so low like say the Thors that I have to take a long time to adjust. I didn't have any trouble looping backspins, long or short, I thought it was a bit easier to use than my H3Neo overall, though not quite as powerful in power looping. I tried it on the BH as well, and it works super well, probably better for me than the Tenergy due to the softer sponge and better control. As a mid-1800s attacker who primarily uses the FH, the Tenergies are understandably a bit too fast for my BH. For the next step, I'm gonna go in a different direction than roar. He plans to put it onto a slower blade and further test its defensive capabilities, I plan to put it onto an OFF++ blade(Galaxy T-11) to further test its offensive capabilities. I already have a feeling that this rubber will really shine on a blade like the T-11, so I'm really looking forward to it! Bottom line for the first impression: High quality rubber, very easy to use, good at just about everything, though not special in anything. IMO it's an excellent all around rubber. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 2:55am
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So far the first thing I noticed from the rubber through the bounce-spin test that i usually do is that it is insensitive to spin blade: timo boll alc fh: h3 neo (will be opening a new whale 2 red sponge) bh: tuttle beijing ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:18am
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I wonder if this rubber is suitable for lower level players like myself?
------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:56am
Im wondering the same thing icontek......guess we need to wait and hear more comments as people get to use it for about a month. The weight per uncut sheet is one reason I would almost pull the trigger....then the price also makes it an EJ's target for sure. ------------- |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 10:17am
| Pace emphasized that you need a powerful and fast swing to get the most out of the rubber. Probably because you need to penetrate the hard top sheet to get to the soft sponge. For this reason he thought that it is more of a forehand rubber where he could get that kind of power. As much as I love my game and would like to believe I have that kind of power when driving and looping, I know I do not. I probably will continue to use rubber with softer top sheets. |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 11:28am
The topsheet is soft , what Pacer is saying is that if you drive it hard, you can get the maximum benefit out of this rubber. Thanks. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 12:01pm
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Gluing up, but will have to wait a couple days to hit and finish review. :-(. ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 12:55pm
The topsheet is definitely softer than what you expect rich ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 2:58pm
IMO you'll really enjoy it. Personally, I don't know what Brian Pace is talking about. Maybe he just assumed that it has a typical Chinese topsheet because it's a Chinese rubber, but it really doesn't. The topsheet is very soft and not tacky at all. It's got power, but it's not terribly fast, and it's really controllable. It's kind of odd in that it's bouncy and quick, but it doesn't really pop up in the short game, maybe due to the soft topsheet, so it's fairly controllable in the short game as well. Also, it's not as powerful as Pace described, and his comment regarding how you'll have to hit hard with it maybe refers to the fact that it's not disproportionately powerful with light strokes like some tensors are. The rubber performs pretty linearly, you get the amount of power you put in, but it's hardly like a traditional Chinese rubber which you have to hit really hard and engage the power of the blade or else it'll be slow as molasses. You know, thinking about it again, this rubber is a lot like a T64 light. It doesn't quite "feel" like a Tenergy, nothing does, but it plays quite similarly in that it's got the unique advantages and disadvantage the Tenergies have on the Tensors and traditional Chinese rubbers. It's also got a similar throw, which is important for people who've gotten used to medium-high throw rubbers like the T64 and the H3. But of course, I've only had one session with it, I'll need a couple more weeks to get a full opinion.
------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 5:12pm
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I just mounted my Tuttle Beijing IV black on my Firewall+. I mounted it there first because it was replacing a black H3 #19 that I had there before on my FH. My H3 #19 was getting beat up around the edges so after looking at the Beijing IV it looked like a perfect candidate for replacing the H3. I have IQUL SV Max and a 802-40 max also waiting to takes its turn on the Firewall+. I have GD Talon 0X on the BH. I will move the rubber to smaller paddles as time goes on. I didn't want to mount it on my Samsonov Alphas first because they have a small head and I wouldn't be able to move the Beijing IV anywhere else after that. I just just recorded some video. You guys will get to see me make a few strokes. I will go home to process it but I thought I would write this first. My first impressions is that it is much softer and and much less tacky than the H3 #19 it replaced. Beijing IV can only pick up a ball for a fraction of a second. You will see this in the video. The top sheet is very soft and compliant. Both the H3 #19 and the Beijing IV are similar in speed but the Beijing is probably a little slower. Both feel slow and the Firewall+ which is rate ALL. The rubber is loud when you flat hit it. You will hear it in the video. I use the sound as feed back to tell when I am brushing the ball. If I don't hear the click sound I know am doing a good brush loop. Surprisingly chops were deadly and easy to do. I played with another person for 1 hour and did about 6 chops and I only missed one, the other 5 didn't come back. 6 chops in an hour is not many. I am not a real chopper, I just like to mix things up to keep the opponent adapting to me instead of me adapting to him. Another surprise was the easy of doing little wrist loops in the short game. Perhaps I shouldn't be surprised. The soft top sheet and rubber easily cups the ball at slow speed and allow one to do a little loop when the ball is over the table where one can't make a full stroke. I lifted a few chopped balls. The person I played with isn't a real chopper. I returned his chopped balls easily. I think returning is more a matter of technique than the rubber so I won't make a big deal about it. In the video I did try some FH loops from about 2 meters back. It can be done but it took some effort. I agree with some of the comments above. There is nothing really fantastic about the rubber, it just seems to play well and it took little adjustment. Icontek, this is a rubber made to appeal to the mass market. I can't imagine any professional using Beijing IV as one would be worn out swinging hard in the loop vs loop rallies. Bejing IV is a good control rubber that could be used as a beginner's rubber. It is very controllable. I agree with dingyibvs' statements butI hate using the "T" word , I would say it has a medium high spin / speed ratio. H3 #19 and Beijing IV are similar in price so I thought these two rubbers would be a good starter for comparison. I have a new IQUL SV Max to compare to which is also about the same price. I will edit this later or make another post. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 5:16pm
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Very interested to hear how it compares to iqul sv! Must be close to the target market. ------------- This was a great signature until I realised it was overrated. |
Posted By: the_theologian
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 5:29pm
I was wondering about the same comparison. In the last few days I've tried IQUL SV 2.0mm on the backhand of a Burn OFF- and ALL-. I had to admit that I was able to lift backspin on short balls better than I can with Shark II (at least my latest sheet of max sponge, anyway). As I'm reading about this Tuttle rubber I'm curious how I'd like it on the backhand. ------------- Appelgren Allplay ST / Vega Europe max |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 6:03pm
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I will start a new thread with video. You will see me looping with my BH with the Beijing IV on the Firewall Plus. I would normally twiddle to do this. The video will be out later tonight or tomorrow. It takes time to process. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 6:06pm
So far topsheet-wise it reminds me a lot of the focus III snipe. Softer and faster though Btw, I have a red sheet ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:18pm
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I hated the Focus III snipe, I still have a pretty much brand new sheet stored away somewhere. If anybody has an used IQUL SV and wants to trade for a Focus3, I'd love to do so so I can compare it to the Beijing 4. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: mon22
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:55pm
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i actually do have a sheet of iqul sv 35degree 2.0 though ------------- I am a total Newb. Come at me! |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 9:55pm
I am going to compare Beijing IV with IQUL SV Max. I have IQUL SV Max already. I bought it in case I didn't like the H3 #19 on my Firewall Plus. As it turns out the H3 #19 worked well but it got beat up around the edges so it will be transferred to my Samsonov Alpha where the beat up edges can be trimmed off because the Samsonov Alpha has a smaller head. The Beijing IV just recently got inserted in my queue of rubbers to try ahead of the IQUL SV Max for this test. Wait. More to come. PS. The next PC whether is going to have a SSD on it and 4 cores or more. Video processing takes too long otherwise. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: mrdoodzki
Date Posted: 03/03/2012 at 11:20pm
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anyone in the philippines selling beijing IV? ------------- Blade -- Stiga Clipper FH -- DHS Hurricane 3 BH -- Japtec Experience HAPPINESS is....sometimes no words, just the sound of a ball |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/04/2012 at 12:25pm
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I've used this rubber in lesson 2 times. This's the first time at club. I've not read any review above. Not tacky at all. Sponge is very soft. This rubber is very unlike traditional Chinese rubbers.Pushing over the table is a bit weak and I feel like I lost one main weapon of mine. Pushing/chopping with full swing is incredible. very heavy. The only rubber I've tried on par with this rubber is Fastarc S. Will post video later. Chopping is easy, ball is heavy but it's a bit slow. Attacking is easy and has good arc but lacks the kick when it bounce. Can produce good spin but not very spinny like Vega Asia can produce. Looping from mid distance and fishing is easy but again lacks the kick. Blocking - the sound from this rubber is awesome!!!! Will play with this rubber more on Monday. Video :
------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/04/2012 at 9:26pm
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video added. ------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/04/2012 at 10:49pm
Are you chopping with the rubber on your forehand? What is the rating of your opponent? Those chops look ridiculously heavy for him... ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/04/2012 at 11:04pm
Those chops are heavy for anybody, you need to use your legs and time it well to loop them consistently, something I can't do yet  ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/04/2012 at 11:14pm
I agree, Bogey, wasn't "Looping Larry" available? "Looping Larry" would have been a good test with two 2000+ players. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 03/05/2012 at 2:11am
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Sounds like SP. |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 03/05/2012 at 10:32am
    Below is my initial review for the Tuttle Bejing 4 rubber. Thank you FastPaddle.com & Razortt!
First Impressions: Tuttle Bejing 4: Came in a nice package. Two sheets of sheet-protectors with the rubber(one sticky, one non-sticky). From the feel to the texture of the topsheet, it did resembles a lot like Focus 3 Snipe with the vanilla color sponge. Supple topsheet with super soft sponge. I think this is probably scaled as 36° in euro density. I put one layer of rubber cement on top of the tunning layer & one layer on my YEO jtta. Topsheet is barely tacky. Performing the spin test, it looks like it will take a euro stroke to get the spin from this rubber, which is digging it out from the sponge. Tackiness did not help in that aspect, and topsheet was not very grippy IMO. Weight is super light 55grams uncut, & ~42grams for an oversize cut. I was a bit sceptical at first because of the physical characteristics that reminded me a lot like Focus 3 snipe/Grip-S Training version(bad quality ones), they are not FH rubbers for my style. I’m used to hard medium tacky FH. TB IV in session: Start to warm up on flat hitting to get a feel of the rubber, very good feeling at very good speed. Fairly linear as slow hits are slow. Then transition to slow looping. It seems like the tackiness is non-existent as I have to hit thru the sponge to generate spin. It has a low arc, but low throw because of the soft sponge. This rubber has a click sound like tenergy. Moving to faster looping: very good speed, but my partner didn’t notice the spin he usually gets from my loops, but it was definitely faster. Then I moved further away to test out mid distance, the speed remains with same stroke strength: fast. Even tho I was looping hard, the sponge didn’t bottom out. The feeling is very good, but it’s missing the jump after it lands on the table. As a penholder, I always test on the pushes because that’s one of the most critical parts of my game. I have problem adapting to the non-tacky play of this rubber as I have to adjust my angle of the pushes to vary my spins. Blocking is pretty good, better than hard tacky rubbers as the ball stays in the sponge longer. From practicing, this rubber has more of a Euro style than Chinese. I think it suits me best on the backhand despite that B.Pace mentioned about hitting hard to get the best out of this rubber. Since the rubber is fast already, I can also control the pace from the linearity of the rubber. In Game Action: Looping: Not so easy performing opening loops against heavy underspin, probably because I have to adjust to engage into the sponge instead of relying solely on tackiness of topsheet. This requires a completely different stroke for me, but I will continue to test on my FH to see if I can reap the full potential out of this rubber. Fast looping is so much fun, countering is super easy! This rubber is not sensitive to spin, so I think that’s why countering loops is easy, I was able to counter some nasty loops when I’m in position. Loops are fast, but spin is still not as good. Pushes/Short Game: Pretty difficult in the short game department, mostly because of my style. I was not comfortable with this aspect yet as I am trying to adjust my technique. Medium grip plus softish topsheet didn’t really help. Blocking: This rubber blocks like a tensor, it offers very good feeling. Since the topsheet is soft, the ball gets to penetrate into the sponge whereas you get to control what’s going back to the other side of the table. It’s also very good at out of position blocks. But it doesn’t offer the variety of blocks that tacky rubber provides. Serving: It’s good at performing short serves. Again, requires a different technique for me. Fast deep serves are also very effective, but spin is still sore lacking=(. Overall: This rubber has a few misinterpreted characteristics. It’s a Euro style rubber. It plays like Donic JO Coppa/Desto F/Macro Pro/Era series, IMO. Topsheet is barely tacky, & not extremely grippy, so the strength of this rubber is on the sponge & tunning layer. For only $20, it’s better play than the above mentioned rubbers. I will probably have to move it to my BH on a new sheet to see if this baby will fit the bill. As for durability, it’s pretty good as the ball marks disappears after cleaning at the end of my few sessions. From my previous reviews/Ejing, I would rate TB IV against a similar group as follows: Speed: T64 ≥ TB IV = T05 = JO Coppa (gold/plat) = Desto F = Narucross GS > Moon > Mars V2 ≥ Focus3 Snipe Spin: T05 > T64 ≥ JO Coppa (gold/plat) > Mars V2 > Moon ≥ Narucross GS > TB IV > Focus3 Snipe > Desto F Control: TB IV > T64 ≥ JO Coppa (gold/plat) > Narucross GS ≥ Moon ≥ T05 = Focus3 = Snipe Desto F = Mars V2 In conclusion I will rate TB IV (Black w/ Vanilla Sponge) as follows: Speed: 9.3 out of 10 Spin: 8.0 out of 10 Control: 8.5 out of 10 Sponge hardness: Very Soft Top Sheet: Barely Tacky Category: OFF to OFF+ ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/05/2012 at 12:13pm
Yes. it's on my FH. My practice partner is 1900+. I beat him in tournament 3-1 last week but that one game he won was 11-0!!!!! ------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/05/2012 at 12:16pm
He tried it for 5 minutes and just said Xiom Vega Pro and Asia have more power on mid distance looping. and more kicksssssssss. ------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/05/2012 at 1:06pm
Yes, but I think it is unfair to compare a $18 rubber that is meant for the mass market to something that costs much more. Comparing to T05 wouldn't be fair if one just wants speed and spin. What I was referring to was that you play "Looping Larry" with the Beijing IV because he would do better getting back your chops and you can also show a few blocked blocked loops. We enjoyed the games on your YouTube channel. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 12:13am
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Bogeyhunter has posted videos of a games playing against "Looping Larry" while using Beijing IV. They are good http://youtu.be/homtg5rVZKQ - http://youtu.be/homtg5rVZKQ I still can't get the videos to embed. I have the URL between the two {TUBE} tags but the video doesn't show. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: nathanso
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 1:55am
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I tested TB4 2.15 black on my robot this evening. Blade was a BBC Blue Streak which is a 6-ply Balsa-carbon OFF blade which is stiff and soft. 152g total fighting weight.
TB4's topsheet is very pliable which when coupled with this rubber's soft sponge makes the rubber feel almost gelatinous.. except when you flat-hit with any amount of power and the magic CLICK! occurs and the ball positively rockets. Faster than my Tenergy 25 in this department, and the TB4 is much more forgiving thanks to its strong sink. On more conventional topspin drive and loop strokes, TB4's low throw and flat arc forced me to brush/lift the ball more than T25 which kept me out of TB4's CLICK zone, and therefore speeds were slower. I can't loop fast enough to make TB4 click but I'm sure there are better players who could. TB4 has loads of control and is thus very easy to play with despite its low throw. Compared to a rubber like Hurricane II which is also low throw but not what I'd call user-friendly. Short spinny serves with TB4 were quite easy to do. While I didn't try them against a live opponent yet, the amount of curve on my short side and side/back serves was up there with the best inverted rubbers I've tested (TG2, TA3). Keeping the ball low and short, however, was easier with TB4. I'll be able to test against a live opponent later this week but I suspect Tuttle has hit a home run with this one.. kind of like the original Gambler Outlaw when it first hit the market. ------------- BBC, SP, LP |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 3:00am
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------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: PingPongHolic10
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 9:23am
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After a long practice session yesterday with a 2100 & 2300 player, this rubber is fast! (confirmed by both) but it's still missing the kick from the topsheet which is causing the lack of bite (spin). I would say this rubber is suitable for non-spin oriented/blockers/smash players for FH. Will continue to test on FH & purchased another sheet for BH review. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55790&KW=&title=fs-ft-2014-inventory-clearancecpenspro-releases" rel="nofollow - My FS/FT Member of Yinhe,OSP & Nexy Clan |
Posted By: zzz
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 12:20pm
You may not put the complete url between the tags. Only the string which specifies the video. It's the string after the "v=" and before the "&feature". In your case it is homtg5rVZKQ. Looks like this: [CODE]-tags aren't working here, still showing the video. You can quote my post to see the correct syntax (without answering). ------------- Virtuoso+ :: Mark V :: Mark V |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 12:41pm
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@zzz, thanks. You can see I got it......finally. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: cotdt
Date Posted: 03/06/2012 at 4:54pm
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Would this be a good backhand rubber? I'm looking for cheaper alternative to T64.
------------- Nittaku Resound FH: Joola Timeless BH: Joola Timeless |
Posted By: icontek
Date Posted: 03/07/2012 at 9:50am
See http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48175&title=video-review-tuttle-beijing-4 - GeneralSpecific's TB4 Review It seems to fit his mid range backhand. ------------- http://bit.ly/vLMhuB" rel="nofollow - - RC1042 . OSP Virtuoso AC: PK50 + R42 |
Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/07/2012 at 10:43am
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More detail: In chopping practice with anyone under 2000, no one can loop with 50% success rate. This rubber's very good on this stroke. In game, below par in serving and pushing. No grip for short and quick strokes. Maybe I'm not used to this kind of rubber. Decend speed - lacks spin. As a chopper, not tacky surface makes it difficult to play first 3-4 shots and set up chopping.
------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: nathanso
Date Posted: 03/07/2012 at 2:54pm
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Flattening out my FH drive stroke produces a very unpleasant looking ball from the TB4. Short-pip FH users might like this one a lot. ------------- BBC, SP, LP |
Posted By: bluebucket
Date Posted: 03/07/2012 at 10:42pm
| bogeyhunter, if I was your coach I'd ban you from chopping, you are far to good on the offensive to be a chopper, it's holding you back |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/08/2012 at 1:52am
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I tried it again tonight, this time on a T-11, with a Focus 3 Snipe on the other side. Quite a setup I must say! Fast, but not uncontrollably so. In fact, the BH was more controllable than T64 on my H-WN. The spin overall wasn't great, but it's got such a good speed and it seems to be able to hit through spin quite well. I don't think my attacking game suffered at all with this, but the short game was just awful as the T-11 is just way too quick. At first I had the TB4 on my FH, but the Focus 3 turned out to be just awful on the BH. The T-11 already has very little feeling, and the Focus 3 dampens feeling by a good amount, so I couldn't feel my BH at all. For some reason, no matter the blade, it's just impossible for me to execute softer BH shots consistently with the Focus 3. Thus, most of the time I had the TB4 on my BH, and it performed REALLY well as a BH rubber, perhaps even better than on the FH. Personally, if I didn't swear not to EJ this year, I'd be REALLY tempted to switch from the T64 to the TB4 on my BH. The control was just superb, the spin was a tad lacking, but the speed was great. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 03/08/2012 at 2:55am
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1600?! |
bogey, are you a sandbagger? Posted By: bogeyhunter
Date Posted: 03/08/2012 at 11:32pm
Chopping is fun. i'm a chopper Bcoz I love it. If I don't love it, I'd quit long time ago. Being a chopper, someday I feel like a punching bag. Good players will keep banging their fast loop. ------------- www.NexyUSA.com We also carries Sauer & Tröger. Lissom O+EASY P 1mm https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_65FLO2Lneo https://youtu.be/YgYFPJCBCr0 https://youtu.be/NeHp789Lb1c https://youtu.be/_65FLO2Lneo |
Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 03/09/2012 at 7:51pm
Bogeyhunter is not a sandbagger. He simply has a sense of humor. How many times do we see jokers on forums claim 2000-2200 levels when they are 1600 or lower? As he said, Bogey LIKES chopping and the LULZ it brings.
Bogey, if we ever meet up again, it will be an entirely new ballgame in all three phases of serve, retrun, and attacking. My opener and 2nd attack are much stronger and consistantly higher percentage and better quality. ------------- Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc |
Posted By: nathanso
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 12:30pm
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This is a really fun rubber to play with due to the loud CRACK you get on a hard-hit ball, and the superb control it provides at speed. The easiest to use counter-looping rubber I've tried, and it's perhaps the best blocking rubber bar none, being both fast and insensitive to spin.
I was having so much fun with it warming up for last night's TT club RR that I decided to risk campaigning the new rubber in the night's tourny. Considering these were my first matches with TB4 I did better than expected, but worse than with my regular T25 bat. Missing from my game was extra spin on serve and tighter arcs on BH drives (I over-hit quite a few balls with the TB4). I also had considerable difficulty looping fast side/back serves to my FH corner, though that stroke is not one I've mastered by any means, even with my regular bat. I played one lobber and slamming his high balls with TB4 was completely effective. In summary, I'd say that for $20 it's a fantastic buy. But for my money I'm sticking with Tenergy 25. |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 5:51pm
 Yes, this is one of the most fun chinese rubber I've ever played with before as well. This thing is LOUD and light weight.------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 7:58pm
| Is this a serious rubber with decent spin, speed and control? Can it compete with Euro/Japanese in the $40 range or is another competitor of Haifu BWII and Shark II rubbers? I can't quite get the feel of where this rubber is properly positioned. |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 8:02pm
It is a lightweight, soft and very nice hitting crisp rubber. Never played Haifu or Shark before, but this is not your average chinese rubber with heavy sponge and topsheet. The $40 range Euro/Jap rubber can never compete with this in terms of value. Plus, this is a one LOUD click sound maker. ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 8:04pm
I see you haven't seen my review http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48175&title=video-review-tuttle-beijing-4 - http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=48175&title=video-review-tuttle-beijing-4 The spin on loops is at about tenergy 64 level and speed is a bit below tenergy 05. control on attacks is much better than both. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: Sofaires
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 8:21pm
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il probably order one next week im just too curious ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/myttsig.jpg/"> 
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Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 8:33pm
The BWII and SharkII are very much Eurojap rubber competitors, too bad Haifu is too stupid to just stick to a good thing. As for this rubber, I don't think it's quite a competitor to the newer Eurojap rubbers, as it doesn't quite have their speed and spin, but the control is just amazing. I'd seriously switch to this rubber right now on my BH had I not promise to not change my rubbers for this year. It's indeed a very fun rubber to play with, and I think it'd be a great fit for the vast majority of inverted players out there. ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 8:47pm
More than decent.
Like Sriver and Mark V? yes. I would buy TB4 over Mark V or Sriver any time. The only doubt I have is how long it will last. So far the black TB4 on my Firewall Plus has been very good. I use the TB4 on my FH and GD Talon 0X on my BH.
I haven't played with those rubbers. If those rubber are hard a have hard top sheets then now. TB4 is soft and has a compliant top sheet. If you don't like soft you won't like TB4. However, I think it is the fact that TB4's top sheet is stretchy and the sponge that makes it a spinny rubber.
I think it is easy. TB4 is good for the average club player that doesn't want to spend a lot of money on Rakza 7 or T05 and likes softer rubbers. I think this rubber is "special" in the way that Red Diamond and Outlaw are special. TB4, Red Diamond and Outlaw provide a lot of performance for the buck. I think Brian Pace's evaluation of TB4 is right on in that it approaches T05 without the cost. If you can afford T05 or T25 then buy it. If not there are cheaper alternatives. I also think that TB4 can be considered a good starter rubber like Sriver or Mark V for almost half the price. I have been playing with TB4 on my FH. TB4 is working well there. Someone said they didn't like pushing with TB4 but my few FH pushes were pretty effective today. I need more playing time. It will be interesting to see how TB4 will compare against IQUL SV Max, and H3 #19. I have a two year old T05 I can throw into the comparison but right now I am still having fun playing with the TB4. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: dingyibvs
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 8:57pm
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pnatchwey, I'm not sure why you think the TB4 is in a similar speed class as the H3 #19. Now, I've never played with #19, but I've heard that it's a good bit slower than the regular H3's, and based on what I can tell, the TB4 is similar in speed to the H3/Neo, maybe even a tad faster, definitely livelier. I tried it again yesterday on my T-11 with T64 2.1mm on the other side, and it still felt very good. I'm more of a driver, and the TB4 was a lot easier to control than the T64. The feeling is also quite different. When I loop with the T64, it felt heavy, but the ball felt light when I loop with the TB4. BTW, TB4 + T-11 makes for quite a loud setup! ------------- Blade: Hurricane Long 5 (968) FL FH: D09C max BH: D09C max |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 9:06pm
You may be right. This is a problem I have with reviews where people evaluate rubber just by playing. People are not calibrated machines. Most of us can adapt to the rubbe so we still end up playing the same way. The truth about the speed will be evident when I start shooting ping pong balls on the rubber while it is mounted on the cutting board. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 11:19pm
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Finally! I was able to hit with it today. After 2-hours of rallying with a 2000 level player I conclude: I love it. SPEED: FAST with a nice sound. I kept checking my plies to see if I had a carbon or kevlar blade, but it was all the rubber. The sponge is soft, but it didn't annoy me like the Tenergies . . . bouncy and wouncy all over the place. CONTROL: Super. I was able to direct my shots where I wanted, when I wanted. It really excelled at blocking. SPIN: It was just right for me, but I am not a spin-master. I was able to create good spin with an active, Chinese stroke, but the more passive intermediate Western player stroke will probably not generate enough spin. It worked for me! I had the #1 player in AZ and one of his top students applauding some of my blocks . . . it felt good! CONCLUSION: Great rubber, especially for someone like me who plays a fast, control game. The rubber I demoed is nothing like short pips. I used my regular messed up stroke and was able to bend the ball onto the table from below net height. I could not do that with pips of any kind. My only question is durability. How long will the rubber maintain these playing properties and when will the top sheet fall apart. If the rubber is durable I highly recommend this rubber to anyone who doesn't rely on a tacky top sheet or a bouncy sponge to generate spin. TZAi has spoken! Thank you for this opportunity. I hope to get another in red. :-).
------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 03/10/2012 at 11:52pm
| Thanks everyone for the detailed info. I have a pretty good idea what to expect and I am going to order a sheet. Been looking for a good rubber in this range so hoping it works out. If not, there is always KTL Goldenstar to look forward to. |
Posted By: ztec
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 5:04pm
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Just knocked around with it on my robot, on a Stiga Clipper blade. First thought was wow this rubber is loud. I mean very loud, like this will draw looks at your next practice session or tournament loud. The pop is there, can definitely unload on a shot if necessary, but the spin wasn't out of this world for a soft rubber. Good enough for me, but I could see some higher level players really wanting more spin. If you're in the market for a cheap Euro-style rubber, this is a great price-to-performance option IMO. On another note: To anyone who's used this rubber already, what was the glue layer that comes on the rubber like for you? Mine was glossy and virtually non-sticky. I had to put my own glue over the factory layer to get it to stick to my blade when gluing. It's not really a huge deal, but considering the thickness of the factory glue layer, it seems rather... odd to say the least that it wasn't sticky (at least for me). And I would love for someone to take a caliper to this rubber and see how thick it is (legal? not legal?), since it does appear thick to my eye at least. ------------- Your play will change your opinion of your equipment more than your equipment will change your opinion of your play. |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 6:51pm
Same here. That is why I thought about peeling it off but so far it is working well but I put rubber cement on both the shiny glue layer and the blade. Another post said I shouldn't need to put glue on the glue sheet. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: tommyzai
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 7:13pm
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Glue sheet? Oh no . . . I glued over it. ------------- For More Info, PM or Email me: [email protected] |
Posted By: ztec
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 7:14pm
Ok glad to know it's not just me, perhaps razortt can look into this issue for us at some point. It's not a pressing matter at least. In my previous experience with H3Neo and BWII I didn't need to apply glue to the sheet, but in this case, my rubber didn't stick unless I did. I am curious if I had just dabbed on some water to the glue if it would've regained it's stickiness, perhaps I'll try that first with my second sheet of TB4 for when this one wears down. ------------- Your play will change your opinion of your equipment more than your equipment will change your opinion of your play. |
Posted By: razortt
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 7:45pm
Hi , please glue the rubber the normal way. 1 coat on the sponge and 1 coat on the blade. Even for H3NEO, we also put 1 coat on the sponge and 1 coat on the blade. Hope that clears up. Thanks! ------------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=35627&title=feebacks-for-razortt-fastpaddlecom" rel="nofollow - Feedback fastpaddle.com |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 9:07pm
| Today I ordered on sheet of Bejing IV for the backhand (or maybe forehand) on my Diamond CQ and one sheet of H3Neo for the forehand. I am going to compare it to my Joola Phenix which is on my primary racket. This only the third and fourth sheets that I have purchased in the last six months, so I am not a EJer. But, there was enough info in the reviews on the sheets that convinced me they were worth a try given their low cost to performance ratio. |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 9:20pm
its because the human factor on using an equipment should never be separated and shooting pingpong balls on a a stationary rubber mounted on a board is not a good way to check the speed. the best way to check the speed of the rubber is using it and time the speed with a speed radar gun. and no, people will not adapt fully to a max calibra lt+ and then control it the way a person can control an RITC 729 rubber. you may be able to do drives or loops with it but when it comes to playing it in a game you will know how many balls you will see flying off the table. ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: Sofaires
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 9:21pm
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ok, im ordering one next week for sure! hehe i will give my thoughs after a few days ------------- http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/52/myttsig.jpg/">
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Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/11/2012 at 10:21pm
That is the only way you can remove the human factor and measure the true speed and not how people play with the rubber. I am going to mount the rubbers on a cutting board instead of a paddle. This way the flex of the paddle is not a factor either. The rubber will be "on its own" When I take a video you will be able to see which rubber is faster and spinnier by where the ball bounces as in the Pathfinderpro videos. I am not measuring a true absolute speed but relative speed. It should be easy to see which rubber is relatively faster than the others by where the ball bounces. If I turn my robot head on its side the balls will hit the blade and bounce back and to the side. This will be a good measure of "throw angle". Balls that bounce more to the side will have a higher throw angle. Those balls that bounce the farthest will be the 'faster' rubbers with the higher coefficient of restitution. A radar gun would work. There are special radar guns for sports that will measure the speed of a ball coming and going. However, if I just want to measure relative speeds and "throw angles" then my method is good enough. It is clear I don't trust myself to make objective evaluations let alone anybody else. So far I have enjoyed playing with TB4 but this is subjective. The cutting board test will be the true comparison between the rubbers but it won't change how much I have like playing with TB4. One must evaluate the properties of the rubber independently of how it is used. I am going to order a red sheet soon to go on the BH of my TBS+T05. I keep the TBS+T05 constant but I change the BH rubber from time to time when I get bored. At this time I have 802-40 1.8mm and Super Anti cut for my TBS. I will add the TB4 for an inverted rubber. I have an uncut red T05 but I will save that for when my black T05 wears out. The red T05 would be too heavy anyway. I want a light BH rubber. ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 11:04am
its because the human factor on using an equipment should never be separated and shooting pingpong balls on a a stationary rubber mounted on a board is not a good way to check the speed. the best way to check the speed of the rubber is using it and time the speed with a speed radar gun. and no, people will not adapt fully to a max calibra lt+ and then control it the way a person can control an RITC 729 rubber. you may be able to do drives or loops with it but when it comes to playing it in a game you will know how many balls you will see flying off the table. [/QUOTE]+1000 What use is a bounce test of a random "cutting board"? What about using 10 different cutting boards with various COR's/densities/compounds ? Or how about this....use an actual paddle mounted with the average grip tension of a players hand at ball impact.....? Wait....there are too many variables huh.... Some of us can tell instantly the differences of speed/loft/grip of rubbers no matter how well we can or can not adapt to different setups. Basically, you cant simulate performance of a rubber without an actual real world playing test. Other data from "scientific tests" with non-real testing mechanics are trivial to actual players feedback. There are so many elements to how a player hits the ball....angles, touch, grip pressure, and body mechanics. So.....a bounce test off a "board" only means the results are exact or relative to that same situation.....and I'm pretty sure 99.99% of people that buy rubbers do not use them for cutting board bounce tests......  ------------- |
Posted By: pnachtwey
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 1:02pm
A cutting board would be solid like bouncing the ball off the table top. The density and weight would be relatively high so the mass can be considered to be infinite with respect to the weight of the ball. The cutting board will not flex.
Once the weight and density are very high and the flex nonexistent then it makes no practical difference. Then I am testing only the rubber, not the blade, and certainly not the stroke or how the rubber is used.
I think you and yogi are the only ones that fail to see that I am trying to REMOVE THE VARIABLES! I want to measure the properties of the rubber alone.
WHO? People aren't calibrated. Are there two people on this forum with exactly the same setup? If these calibrated people were all calibrated the same way wouldn't they all think the same setup was best?
WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU? I AM EVALUATING RUBBER ALONE, NOT HOW IT IS USED!!! GET IT!!! ------------- I TT therefore I am |
Posted By: richrf
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 1:12pm
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As I understand the discussion, there is a question concerning the value of doing a rubber test eliminating all other variables (e.g. human factor, blade factor, etc.). A case can be made that measuring any constituent part of the complete system (human, blade, rubber) is not much value since the behavior of a complete system cannot be described the measurement of its components. I believe that this has merit. On the other hand, there many be players who are simply interested in the characteristics of individual rubbers irrespective of the blade it is being used on or the human that is using it. That is valid also. I think the key point here is that a test that shows a rubber will be faster than any other rubber in the test has limited predictive value until it is actually included in the complete system - e.g. a human test by the human that intends to use it.
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Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 3:50pm
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Pnatchwey,
When you are ahead of your time, no one takes you seriously. So don't lose any sleep over it.
NL ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: kickass
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 4:01pm
an objective measurement that a rubber is faster than all others have limited predicitve value??? and since subjective opinion must be worse, then your suggestion is basically: try it for yourself? Well, that has zero usefulness in predicting. The whole point of these tests is to give knowledge to potential users before the actually use it. |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 4:08pm
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My point is that his test is flawed as to useful results. But by using some extremely different object the rubbers are fixed to.....you will get results that tell you what the rubbers act like on something that is not similar to effects of use on a real blade in normal play. Basically, by using a object the rubbers are affixed to, which is something that is nothing close to the average blade density, weight, and such......the stiffer and much more dense object he will use will have results that definitely take away any practical realism of various rubber's speed differences on an average blade. Also, the much stiffer and heavier board will most likely have a progressive additive to bounce and rebound effects of rubbers that would not otherwise be relevant if tested on a actual blade held in some way. Just like when you bounce a ball on a blade with no rubbers....or bounce on a blade with rubbers.......when you actually hit the ball under normal playing conditions.....you can get a different response quite often.  ------------- |
Posted By: riker71
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 4:15pm
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Or just read the ratings on TTDB when enough people have reviewed it concisely, which makes it easier-easter to evaluate. ------------- Stratus Powerwood FH T05 BH T25 |
Posted By: kickass
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 4:39pm
Instead of controlling variables, you want to add more variables? I think you guys are missing the point of the test, which is comparative to other rubbers all other things being equal. It is not an absolute valuation, it is comaprative. And that is more useful than a subjective test any day. [/QUOTE] |
Posted By: Rich215
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 5:15pm
Actually using a much harder and stiffer board behind the rubbers ADDS..... a variable to the test and results. IE the fact that you have progressed the bounce so much and different types of rubbers (tensors, tenergy, and non tensor rubbers) will or will not have various exaggerated progressive effects. Thus, the differences in results between the rubbers could easily be very different than what they would if the object the rubber is fixed to something that more closely resembles a blade. Maybe use a blade with 1 standard rubber on the opposite side for all various rubber tests on the hitting side. This would take away variables that not realistic. So to say that it would be more useful to use something that is greatly different than a actual blade...is nonsense. But.....if you just want to compare rubber speeds in a totally unrealistic manor to actual game play....then your test would result with information that means little to actual response from normal use most likely. That is my point. Sorry to add so much to the total derailment of the thread !  I shall end my point here. ------------- |
Posted By: LGL_fan
Date Posted: 03/12/2012 at 6:15pm
| test different angles too. some rubbers are slow in flat hitting but loop pretty fast |