Thanks

Can you confirm/verify that this is not another ESN Tensor?

Thanks in advance. 

Thanks a lot for the great review!!! I'm really excited about these rubbers because I was about to start boosting my Tenergys...

You didn't talk about the throw angle but I guess it is as high as the Tenergys, is it? 

With which rubbers did the pros play? MX-P I guess? 

If MX-P is like T05 boostered and MX-S slower than MX-P would MX-S be the most similar to T05? 

It sounds like FX-0 is similar to T05 FX. What about the EL-P with the medium sponge? Does it play similar to T64? 

Thanks for your help

 

I agree also that when I first saw the sponge, it looked similar to Tenergy.

 

I got Evolution MX-P to test a few weeks back from Prez Moon @ Nexy on my last visit to his HQ in Bucheon and slapped it on the trusty TBS to make it an tad short of an even 200 grams total bat weight. Love that weight and balance.

 

MX-P is very hard sponge felt a tad softer than hard regular Aurus. Played like a faster spinnier version of Aurus, kinda played like a faster T-64 with better spin. Loop to loop drills with Aurus are pure joy and Evolution seems to be a bit moar fun. This rubber does everything very well and controlable just like Aurus does for me, but it has moar "Juice" for lack of a better word.

 

If I move back to Texas when i am done with my time in Korea, I can bring a few sheets if TSA jokers don't get stupid with me.

 

I think that Bluefire M3 will be my last sojourn into this realm of EJing madness.  After that, whatever rubber I buy will stay on my paddle for a year at least.  And it is likely to be Tenergy 05 if European, or Juic 999 Turbo if Chinese.

@Wallee

Do you have any answer to my questions? 

Thanks!

 

I disagree.

 

I used T05 on Fh on my TBS for about a year. I hit daily for several hours. After one week, the edges would begin to crumble and after two weeks, it was pretty bad. At teh 2 week mark, the rubber performance would start to go down. After 4 weeks, T05 performed pretty much like an average rubber. I could never get more than 4-5 weeks from a sheet of T05, ever.

 

After I started using Aurus, it would do pretty much the same thing, but deteriorate at a slower rate. Aurus performs in the 80-100% range for 4 weeks, and holds near 80% for the next month. I can get 2 months of daily play from Aurus.

 

I pay less than 1/2 the $$$ for a sheet of Aurus than I pay for T05, plus I play just as well with Aurus, so there is no question for me.

 

I played with Tibhar Evolution MX-P (The uber-hard sponged version) and loved it. After using hard sponged Aurus on FH for a year, I really didn't have to change much except to add another point to my score every game.  It played like a livelier and spinier version of T64. Great speed/spin/feel. It is NOT the next best thing since sliced cheese, but it is a very good rubber. WELL worth USD $65 or less a sheet. it crumbles like other modern SGE rubbers and shaped up to have the same rate of crumbling as Aurus.

I agree with the ressemblance with the Aurus which is also a great rubber for its price. 

I found the MX-P quite fast but also quite hard. Harder than T05 or T64 but in between both in terms of speed (not sure if it's faster or slower than T64). Better than T05 for "Top frappé" (how do you say that in English??? ) but not as as spinny as T05 for opening loops. I was also not able to produce as much spin for my serves. 

Well I don't want to say much more because I only played once with it for the moment. 

can you write down your opinion if the rubber is ESN like (Rasant, Bluefire etc...),or more Japan (tenergy) like?

ttping85 wrote: I tried the MX-P and many members on the french tt forum did as well. For most of us we agree that these are very good rubbers but they are not Tenergy-like. They are not  similar to Tenergy in feel. Tenergy are unique and even after this "Evolution" they will stay unique. That doesn't mean that they are better or worse, just very different.  I agree with the ressemblance with the Aurus which is also a great rubber for its price.  I found the MX-P quite fast but also quite hard. Harder than T05 or T64 but in between both in terms of speed (not sure if it's faster or slower than T64). Better than T05 for "Top frappé" (how do you say that in English??? ) but not as as spinny as T05 for opening loops. I was also not able to produce as much spin for my serves.  Well I don't want to say much more because I only played once with it for the moment.

If anyone has tried it, please post here.

Well because of hardness I would say Bluefire but I am not completely sure. I only tested directly in comparison with T05 for the moment. Next will be comparison with T64 and then with Bluefire M2. 

Many other members on the french forum compared the rubber to Bluefire and Rasant. 

One forum member tried EL-P as well and apparently it is also not too soft between T05 and T64 in hardness. He was most enthusiastic about the FX-P for the moment which apparently is more Tenergy like but with the softness of T05FX or T64FX. 

Just glued the MX-P on my blade with T64 and on the bounce it seems a tiny bit faster and not that hard but the difference is that the sponge is harder so the stronger you play the harder it will feel. Also on the bounce it seems more ESN like again. 

I don't why but the MX-P reminded me a bit of the feel of the Haifu Whale II Factory tuned with red sponge. The MX-P is better quality of course and is not sticky like the Whale. 

Anyway won't say much more until the next tests a part that they are very heavy!!! On a TBS the weight is 49-50gr minimum. The one I have right now was cut a bit larger and weights 53gr!!!

According to a French forum member the EL-P much harder then the T05 FX and just a bit less then the T05. But I think more testing from other people needs to be done before coming to a conclusion. Also my impression is that the arc is not as high as T05 or Bluefire M1/M2. More like T64. 

thanks a lot

 

;)

very smart

but we are not stupid

Honestly, if the reviewer was a trusty member i would trust him, but looks like another spammer that dissapears after a few posts...

I was talking with the guy that runs the shop owned by V.Samsonov (a former national champion)  in Spain and stated that was an upgraded over 1Q, but Tenergy still feels spinner....

ttping85 wrote: One forum member tried EL-P as well and apparently it is also not too soft between T05 and T64 in hardness. He was most enthusiastic about the FX-P for the moment which apparently is more Tenergy like but with the softness of T05FX or T64FX.

 

 

You are goddamn right! The OP provided high quality pics of jucy rubbers in order to make us drool and obey to our EJism.

 

EDIT: Yeah, I certainly agree that the throw is much lower than T05. Aurus is medium throw and Evolution MX-P is right at the throw of Aurus. Such a high throw has its plus and minus. With that high throw, you dont need quite and open blade on looping vs underspin, but you adjust, so that part is a wash I feel. What is destructive about high-spin & high throw is the ball will at the end drop vertically very severe, that alone can be troubling if hte drop is at endline and the severe kick afterwards is very troublesome to opponents. T05 excelled at this and is still the easiest rubber to do loop to loop rallies with any speed of stroke control was and still is unparralled in my crappy A-hole opinion. The medium throw is more predictable for the player hitting and the kick form hookshot spin or topsin is still troubling. The uber-low throw rubbers like Calibra LT are great at full stroke looping vs incoming topspin. The ball goes off rediculous fast, stays low, even against heavy topspin, and dips real late, then kicks off wicked fast real low. That is also troubling. The player has to decide for himself/herself which kind of rubber propertes are best suited as a balance of what the player can do, how they are confident with the rubber, how well and how consistant the rubber performs (control / landing it on the table) and how well/poorly opponents fare vs the game with such and such rubber. Price is also a factor if rubber is like Tenergy price and you are not sponsored by BTY or a shop feeding you Tenergies like you are in a country club buffet.

 

I would recommend trying this rubber out if you are an OFF player wanting to try a high end rubber different from Tenergy that can perform just as well in many areas, some areas weaker, some areas better.

I don't think anybody said that Evolution MX-P was not faster than both Tenergys. There was a comment about the EL-P which I can't judge because I didn't try it myself. After making a direct comparison with T64 I agree with you that Top Speed is faster with the MX-P but the passive bounce is about the same. I found the first top spin still easier and spinnier with the T64 but maybe it's also because I am more used to it. But when the game is engaged the MX-P enables you well to play fast and spinny top spins. Definitely a good rubber. Nobody said it was not, we were just disappointed that the first feedbacks were explaining how they were Tenergy-like and now we found out that they are not. It doesn't mean it's a bad rubber. 

Amazing rubber? Yes it's possible. Personally I need more testing but not I am convinced for the moment. 

Like a boosted Tenergy? In terms of speed yes but surely not in terms of hardness and feel. The MX-P is harder than the T05 and a boostered T05 is softer than a regular T05.

 

 

 

 

 

VERY VERY good Pictures

I can't make a very precise comparison between both because I didn't play enough with them  but what I can say for sure is that 1Q is much softer. 

It's better than Tenergy in blocking because it is less sensitive to incoming spin, it doesn't bounce off as quickly as T64 and the throw angle is not as high as T05. 

It doesn't react surprisingly like other ESN rubbers. 

Good speed and spin are there but it is very hard and very heavy (53gr cut to a Butterfly Blade) and to use its full potential you need very good technical and physical skills. But when you manage well it is really powerful and faster than T64. 

Also I found it much more difficult to create spin than with T05 and even T64. Somehow it grabs the ball well and it is very easy to do an opening loop but if you don't make an extra effort there is not so much spin in it. So very different from Tenergy. 

 

A lot of good points, especially about the spin compared to T05 on less than full swings. T05 facilitates the production of heavy spin with even a half stroke. You will not get near this spin with MX-P, not with many other modern glue effect rubbers. I do not want this kind of spin on my connecting shots or defensive topspin shot where I make a light to medium topspin shot from below table height that opponent cannot see impact that goes low over net and can kick unpredictably, causing opponent to hesitate to attack and give me a ball I can better attack.  

Definitely you´re also  pro, but a a pro-spammer.

 Why a pro would be interested on such weights of thinner sponges? You did a great display of the rubbers, w detailed pics and extensive review, and the you dissapeared for a few weeks, leaving the dead tasty prey for the hungry vultures and hyenas.

Have a good sales!

Edit: is MX-P the similar one in terms of hardness?

Aurus has more power spin on loopdrives....also better behaved over the table. Actually aurus shines in all departments...the only issue i had was that after a few weeks aurus is not as easy to open loops with. you need a perfect forward stroke contact.. and since you are not always perfect in a game.. i ended up losing 1 or 2 opening loops while not best position. 

you can always argue on practice and all... but i can argue that rakza 9 allows me to do that even with same level from practice. :) And our clubs best player is kicking it bigtime with 1Q-XD, replacing his H3N Prov..

sorry i don't want to distract this thread further from evolution. i'm also interested to know more about evolution (even though i feel that most of it is what i heard about bluefire).

Having tested MX-P and M2 both in max and both in black I can that they are quite similar but I can tell you that biggest differences between both are

-hardness> MX-P is much harder than M2 so maybe it is similar in hardness with M1

-dwell-time> M2 is bouncier so dwell time on the MX-P is much longer. 

-sensitivity to incoming spin> MX-P is less sensitive to incoming spin so you have more control in blocking, counter-looping and returning serves. 

-weight> MX-P is heavier than M2 about 3-4gr for the same cut (of course that can vary depending on the sheet you get

If somebody could compare MX-P with M1 it would be great. From what I remember the differences would the same as with the M2 except maybe hardness. 

 

 

About the whole question whether Evolution is making an end to Tenergy supremacy or not.

 

I believe it might be adopted by quite a few Pro Players or half-pro Players because when you have the physical and technical skills than MX-P (the only one I tried personally) is really a great rubber with great speed, spin and control. But amateur players will have harder time to use its speed and especially its spin if you compare to Tenergy but might be seduced by its control and insensitivity to incoming spin.

 

A French pro-player playing in the 1st French Pro-League (Pro A) sponsored by Butterfly and playing with T05 tested the MX-P and had the wow-effect!!! He really liked the MX-P. I was not surprised because he is the kind of player who almost always plays full strokes and has an amazing arm speed. He felt he could put more spin in his top spins (strong full strokes). He also felt he could put more spin in his serve because of longer dwell-time but again the way he hits the ball at his serve is really fast and his serves are anyway extremely spinny. I believe that with gentle stroke serves with Tenergy will be spinnier than the MX-P. What he didn't like is the hardness, the weight (his bat with one T05 on the other side was heavier than usual and unbalanced) and he actually didn't like the insensitivity to incoming spin in blocking. He also found the MX-P in blocking less regular in the way it reacts to the ball compared to Tenergy so he didnt feel secure with it. But maybe it's just because he is used to T05. But he found that backhand block-spin was easier and better than with T05.

 

Anyway the feel and the spin of Evolution is not Tenergy-like but the way its speed is slow in passive strokes and gets faster and full strokes is somehow Tenergy-like.

 

 

About the question whether Evolution is better than all the other rubbers released recently?

 

I read on the German tt forum that a whole 3rd/4th division team playing either with T05 or T64 so far switched to either to MX-P or EL-P. Because of financial restriction of their club they have been trying to find alternatives to Tenergy amongst all the new rubbers (Rasant, Bluefire, 1Q-XD…) but the only ones they were actually satisfied with were the Evolution which they found not only to be a good alternative to Tenergy but also better in many aspects.

 

Again this is only showing the possible great potential of Evolution rubbers amongst Pro or half-pro players. For amateur players it would be interesting to see how many will start to adopt Evolution as soon as it will be available in all the tt stores.

 

In France Bluefire starts to be widespred among amateur players but also half-pro players playing in 3rd division but I don't know about the two highest Professional leagues. 

I feel so sorry if i ever hurt you, it wasn´t my intention, but i felt kinda dodgy you post with all that info. We´re quite used to those typicall cavern trolls that visit us rather ofter to post loads and tons of unuseless spam&crap.

Best wishes, Jonyer.

[/QUOTE]Thank you, Jonyer.  I accept your excuse and I hope it was a real apology, without irony or a hint of sarcasm. I think if you did read my other postings in mytabletennis.net and ooakforum.com discussion forums, you will see, that I try to give good recommendations to all users when ever I know something about the blades and rubbers.

I like it, to test all kind of rubbers and blades. We have a table tennis competiton table in our house and if I cannot play together with my son, I have a good robot to test rackets. This is my passion 

I have one question to you: Can you compare the Evolution MX-P with the Grip-S Europe what you are using? Thank you!  

I haven´t tried yet any of the Evolution series, it hasn´t arrived to Spain yet so it´s hard to me to make an extensive comparison. So far, hhe only one who has tried is Vladi who lives and owns a TT shop with a TT friend of him, a  former national champion, but obviously they aren´t given commercial versions, off-the shelves, just best quality selected premium sheets for him.

Honestly i am going to quit playing GSE because of QC´S . It´s like going to a Casino, you can get a good one, but also theres  a big chance to get a BAD sheet. I could forgive this on crappy cheap chinese rubber, but i can´t tolerate  this quality issues  on a 40€ sheet relabelled by Thibar.

I hope this helps :)

Link to te forum: http://forum.tt-news.de/

Link to the Evolution Rubber discussion: http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?s=620e1cfdf55740d1a97f8dbf2bd6297a&t=129731

Link to the post about the team that switched: http://forum.tt-news.de/showthread.php?s=620e1cfdf55740d1a97f8dbf2bd6297a&t=129731&page=20

Walee76 wrote:   jonyer1980 wrote: I feel so sorry if i ever hurt you, it wasn´t my intention, but i felt kinda dodgy you post with all that info. We´re quite used to those typicall cavern trolls that visit us rather ofter to post loads and tons of unuseless spam&crap. Best wishes, Jonyer. Thank you, Jonyer.  I accept your excuse and I hope it was a real apology, without irony or a hint of sarcasm. I think if you did read my other postings in mytabletennis.net and ooakforum.com discussion forums, you will see, that I try to give good recommendations to all users when ever I know something about the blades and rubbers. I like it, to test all kind of rubbers and blades. We have a table tennis competiton table in our house and if I cannot play together with my son, I have a good robot to test rackets. This is my passion  I have one question to you: Can you compare the Evolution MX-P with the Grip-S Europe what you are using? Thank you!

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My list of blades for sale https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1wYci9423byd3X43DhSsaXOmysNKMfK-RnPWSo3UfpkQ/edit?usp=drivesdk

If you guys want more pictures, I gathered some here:

Could you (or anyone for that matter) compare the hardness to the ESN scale?  The hardness's listed on Paddle Palace are very unusual and since it is made in Japan it might be nice to know how they relate.

It is said on the package like any othe product 

It looks suspiciously like a Tensor sponge but others are claiming it's Japanese in origin. 

If anyone could legitimately verify (i.e., not speculation or hearsay, but some sort of label, marking, or official statement from a Tibhar representative, etc.) one way or another the origin of this rubber, that would be super. 

I'm not interested in investing any more money on Tensors but I'd be happy to try this rubber if it is indeed of Japanese origin. 

Since I'm pretty much a middling TT player, at best, I'm not sure how significant my opinion is in the scheme of things. 

I think the Bluefire series is the best Tensor put forth so far, but even then it tends to be somewhat erratic in its behavior much like (but to a lesser extent than) all the Tensors prior to it.

Yes, Tenergy has some "catapult" to it. It can make a subpar shot look terrible and it can make a mediocre shot look excellent... but it is still, in my opinion, a more honest rubber than any of the Tensors.

My reason for the above statement is that I find Japanese rubbers in general to be more honest and intuitive than Tensors. Of course, hard, tacky Chinese rubbers are the most honest but I (and apparently most people) don't like them on my backhand. 

 

Over time, I see you seem to do this exceptionally more than the rest of us.

 

I used to like those tacky Chinese rubbers on BH and I can still make just about anything work on BH wing. Most of the stuff close that category simply feels and sounds like a brick at impact, which I absolutely do not like.

 

I use a very controlable Allround OFF rubber on BH that does everything good, but nothing exceptional.

 

I use Dawei XP 2008 Super Power 40 degree 2.2 on BH wing. Heaps of control. I can use a rocket, but I can make very fast and sudden shots on BH wing with this rubber and land it moar often still with heavy spin, even if it is not T05 level, it is more than enough.

 

T05 is so great at coping with topspin and producing your own topspin from underspin balls, nothing rivals T05 in counterlooping ease at its throw angle, calibra is king at low throw. T05 priced itself out of my ballpark so Aurus it is for Fh play. T05 gives a player a disproportionate level of spin for a slow to medium stroke and shines best on 3/4 to full swings.

 

I have never gotton on the Tensor wave, although i slapped a tensor from Cole on my Achuma OX LP test bat and even last night enjoyed a few matches with it as a defender/blocker suddenly flipping the switch to atack, which is sometimes a blast.

 

but i think that problem is well addressed addressed now... rakza 9 has same feeling but crisp and predictable ball throw... exactly mimics tenergy feeling... but faster.

i think evolution should be in same category... i.e they DONT chew the ball so much that while spitting it out they forget which direction they came from. ;) 

True  there is just Japanese as the main language everywhere and hardness, spin and speed are indicated according to Japanese Standards. 

The question is: would Tibhar dare to pretend through all this Japanese stuff on the package that Evolution is made in Japan while it is actually not? 

But you use Aurus which is a Tensor itself...

 

BTW, do you know why Tibhar doesn't make Evolution in Japan?

Is it due to cost? Is it because ESN has a lot of experience copying Tenergy?

I really don't know.

Not at all, considering Germany is the next big hub of table tennis in the world after Asia and the country that Tibhar is from.  Too many people on here with unfounded speculation 

I'm waiting for a "Made in Japan" marker somewhere on the rubber or package, or perhaps an official email from Tibhar stating the product is not outsourced to ESN and is indeed made in Japan, etc.

Anyone...?