Hey!  They do the job, don't they?  The barriers are a creation of our club's president.  If you are still curious, continue reading. 

The 4' x 8' sheets of corrugated cardboard from the local paper company had to trimmed with a table saw so that they were the proper height.  Then small strips of wood  forming a rectangle are sandwhiched between two pieces of cardboard and stapled to provide rigidity.  The red tape covers the staples and make the barriers fit snugly into the feet.    The feet are constructed from 2 x 4 lumber on a circle of plywood and have a layer of foam attached to protect the gym floor.   

 

I love the snappy "windshield wiper" backhand!

Also, trying to learn the snappy double action reverse pendulum serves. 

What's the attacker's name?

I might have played him before.

His name is Everton. I played him in Ohio last year and he beat me (I beat myself really) but I'm glad he beat this blocker. It's so painful to watch this blocker play.

He does have good touch but when I watch him play I just think he is stuck at that level and won't get any better. He doesn't move, in these videos he never opens with an attack which is not good at higher levels. His only source of winning points is off of blocks. He can hit a winner if he blocks well enough but against a better player (2200+) 1-2 loops and he will lose the point. Sure he might occasionally beat higher rated players based on consistency, but there is a reason he is still under 2100. Much like with the pushblocker, there is a skill ceiling for these styles.

I am not trying to attack him nor put him down, just stating reasons why I think he is stuck at u2100. I'm not saying he could never pass that rating, just that with his current style, it may be difficult. Much like mr. pushblocker, who has been learning to attack more because he wants to become a better player. This Richard character could learn to do the same. 

Delgado,  You need to see him play a lot of opponents at various levels to defend the conclusions you have arrived at. In many way, Richard pushes the ball more than he blocks.

Ok, well, I have seen him play against 2 loopers and one older guy who plays much more compact. He pushes more than he blocks, I feel like that is common sense. But he doesn't win as many points on his push as he does his blocks. He pushes in order to block much like I will push in order to counter loop or receive a comfortably loopable push. I win points based on looping he wins points based on blocking. I am not rushing to conclusions I am just stating what I see. Once again, I am not trying to attack him or be offensive, some people are tickled pink to be around 2100. Others (like myself) have higher goals.

You've seen him play a 2200+ looper, a 2000+ looper and one other person.  You've not seen him play lower rated players or players with long pips.  One thing to note was that he beat a hardbat player who beat the 2000 looper that beat him in the opening video.

My point is that you know little about his game and you've seen it mostly against a single style going by what you wrote.  As JimT pointed out, every style has limitations.  But there is no reason why with his quality of blocking, he cannot become a higher rated player with a good counterhit/smash against varieties of topspin. There are few styles that can't hit 2400.  Blocking/hitting is not one of those styles.  That it is easiest to become a good player by looping doesn't mean that limits are low for other styles when you are not thinking "World Class".

Remember that the limitations of a style revolve around serve, return, thirdball and fourth ball, not around rallying per se.

By the way, I'm fairly sure you are relatively young if not very much so.  It is usually youth that bolsters such ambitions.  Don't however be surprised if you don't get much higher than the blocker's rating after years of practice.

After 4 years of self learning I hit 2025. I have just recently started actually training. To put things in perspective, I lost to Everton (~2100) and his teammate Yuvi (~2300) in the thanksgiving teams. In the most recent college tournament I played Yuvi again and beat him. Whats all this noise about not being better than this guy who has no 3rd ball, no serve return, and just a decent block? If this guy wanted to get any better than he is he would have to learn how to attack, thus, not blocking. I don't give a shit what he does against lower rated players because beating lower rated players doesn't mean anything. I can beat sub 1800 rated players playing penhold but it doesn't mean I can do the same to players over 2100. Once again, I wasn't trying to be offensive to this Richard character, just state what I see when he plays against higher rated players and how he can break 2100.

 

To exploit the power loops of his opponent. It is not a rare thing here to see a pushblocker using Andro Treiber K and 2xTibhar Genius.

How do you know he doesn't know how to attack?  Usually, coming back from a 0-2 deficit to win 3-2 means that one person made an adjustment and the other person was unable to counter it.  

Larry Hodges can play 2100 level with a clipboard chopping.  Sometimes, the limitations are about the player, not the equipment or style.  

I have no doubt Richard can attack - the problem is that loopers sometimes believe that if an attack isn't the kind of attack that a looper would prefer, it is not an attack.  That is what I am trying to get you out of.  Hitters/blockers set people up differently.

 

No, I don't.  But most people already know that I'm in the 1700s, and in my late 30s, and most people don't know that I am seriously arthritic and have terrible knees, and fewer people know that in July, I would have played seriously for two years with periods of a few months off in between for personal reasons.

I'll have to get at you next time I come to Florida to hit a few.

 

Thanks man, but I have no mercy on the opponent even if they come in with a walking stick, so I really don't make it an issue.   I wish I had the body of someone my age with the care I have taken - would have played like a looper and made some people really scared.

Yea let me know. I play at the clubs in central florida.

I have to give him one thing though, that does deserve respect - his rating. No matter what you think of his strokes, that rating is hard to achieve. I am very proud of my strokes but I am yet to touch 1800. I know how hard it is. And I imagine it's even harder to compete with strokes like this. You must compensate with extra focus and consistency. 

Obviously not from the U2200 final, but a great shot of you!

Hope you like.

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Maybe because this is not about winning but rather about playing? I think the blocker guy over the years has specialized in playing against people with normal, attacking styles. 

I guess this is a mutated defensive style. He is good at scoring though... we have to live with that.

What made his style look "Basement Judo" (Haha, I simply LOVE that term. Gunna add it to my slang database!), what made that dude's plying style look unconventional and comic basement was his jumping antics right after the block. I think I called it something like Donkey Kong Hop or something like that. dude obviously had a plan and stuck to what was earing him points.

 

When I play some really old-school jokers here who know how to use their hands on blocks and Middle Game shots, they all drive me bananas up a wall as the ball will almost always be different from what it looked like they did and that should drive one to better see and read the ball.

Your serves were definitely superior.

Good play.  I know it is hard to look good against a blocker-hitter like your opponent.  I am a blocker-hitter too.

Interesting discussion on the match, 

Some facts that watching cannot tell about the game.

Those pushes are really heavy backspin and the blocks play like antispin sometimes

As the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20 

 

 

Yes, I would.  Why?  Because I have learned a lot from such players.  Any player who is above 2000 in rating knows how to loop and what good footwork is.  Why?  Because even if they don't play that way, they exploit such knowledge when playing people and usually did something like it at some point while coming up in the game.  Does it mean that he loops to win points?  No.  Does it mean that he uses great footwork to get in position for the ball?  Not necessarily.  But can he teach it to someone else?  Usually, the answer is yes.

 

Even the specialists in almost any style didn't start out playing that way.  Most of them started out doing all the strokes, and then a talent for something or a penchant for winning points in a particular way showed up and that helped them develop their specialist style.  But even the ones that didn't studies the strokes they were playing against that loopers used so they could understand what they were facing.

 

E,

The mob has taken it easy on you!  Can't say the same for Mr. Martin, except for a few people who stepped up to his defense.  You have won us over with your serves and attacking style!

After his victories in the Open Round Robin and Open Singles events, he may well have been quoting General Zod, but there was someone there to challenge him after all!

Great match!

It was a pleasure coming to play in the tournament, I had fun.

To the mob if everyone played the same style, then every1 would still have something to say about tennis being boring and someone needs to innovate a new style. Its easy to find faults when your not the one playing  haha

 

+1

 

My coach is a former Inverted/LP combo pro player, a FEMALE, at that! What kind of style is that for teaching a macho male power spin attacking 2 wing looper???!!!

 

Well, obviously a damned good one.

 

I came to this city a div 5 player and within 2.5 years of lessons became a city div 2 player.

 

She was doing SOMETHING right, eh?

 

Believe me you. The grueling multiball drills, the single ball practice, the footwork drills, the combo drills requiring fast, explosive movement and hitting for power, then moving explosively again, then hitting for power again... those drills are no joke... all taught and ran by someone who plays defense, a nearly 50 yr old lady at that.

 

Those drills had something to do with moving up 3 levels, just a little, so did her teaching me more about serve receive, impacting the ball earlier, going on attack decisively first, being ready to continue the attack... Those are the macho things we OFF attacking players want to get into. She taught them.

 

She also taught me to allow an opponent to attack after a fast push to their elbow, then block the ball wide FH. I taught myself to laugh like Woody Woodpecker inside when the attacker thought he had an easy point.

 

BOGEYHUNTER, a defensive player, taught me to serve and that any point that got added to my score was MY point, the same as whether I smashed a winner or got a lucky net, they all count as one point and I need to do what it takes to win the most of them by various ways to give me more tactical options and a better chance to win vs different players.

 

Ironic that a player like myself, the prototypical all-out attacking wannabe, learned the majority of TT and developed the most being taught by defending players... That is really ironic, true, and a good example of different playing style coaches emphasizing basic TT skills to grow a player.

I find this line of thought very strange.  To imagine that there is some pure, "right" way of doing things sounds like something out of Plato and has about as little to do with the real world.

 

All the "right" methods for playing were developed for very specific purposes.  If you can achieve the same results (or bypass the need to achieve the same things), then you don't need those "right" methods.  For example, we learn specific forms for our strokes in order to develop powerful loops in the most efficient manner possible, but if you're blocking instead of looping, you don't really need to perfect your looping technique.  We work on our footwork in order to let us move into position for our great looping strokes, but if we're not looping, then all that footwork become less important.  We work on our serves (preferably short) and service returns so that we can attack without being attacked, but a blocker isn't going to work about being attacked and might even encourage it (just like the choppers often do!).

 

Don't get me wrong: I work on my footwork and the technical aspects of my game, including quality coaching (Stellan), because I'm one of those two-wing loopers.  It's the way I like to play.  However, someone playing a blocking style just doesn't have the same needs and what you think is ugly or "wrong" is really just suited to their playing style.

 

I think the idea that the "correct" way to play is to loop and attack is a fairly recent phenomenom.  I suppose it's because of the success of the top Chinese attackers over the last 20 years or so.  Keep in mind, however, that the purpose of the Chinese system is to produce world champions, not how to get the most bang for the buck for amateur players.  Certainly Waldner made a lot of use of blocking (Sean O'Neill, who was certainly a big looping attacker, once described playing Waldner as like trying to nail jello to a wall), but he wasn't the first or only one to do so. 

 

People don't get to be 2200+ by luck.  If they reach that level reliably, then they've got a workable system for how to play table tennis.  Maybe they'll never be world champions but they probably aren't aiming for that anyway.  To imagine that there is something intrinsically wrong with what they're doing says more about you projecting your personal biases than it does about table tennis.

 

If I had a child with aspirations to be a national champion or world class player, I would certainly teach him/her the modern looping technique because it's  the most efficient way to play at the highest levels.  However, there are only a very few people who ever reach that level.  So maybe we're better off letting children learns styles that make them happy.

Pondus, Thank you, this is a very fitting post. Also maybe it helps to explain one of the points being made here. Probably, to some of us the way Eric Boggan plays looks harmonious and effective, coordinated and sensible, even pleasant to watch, and we wouldn't mind at all being able to play like he does (dream on...). At the same time, some other ways to play the blocking style are just less appealing...

 

Your average player is not going to have a style like a pro or even like an elite amateur player.

 

The Push - Blocker style has emerged which allows some amateurs to compete at a much higher level. 

 

They are kind of like a street fighter on the ping pong table, their style is considered unorthodox but they win by surviving matches with their guile vs trained TT fighters.

 

Everyone receives their own type of enjoyment from their TT hobby based on lots of different factors, time available, personal training when they were youth, aerobic exercise, low injury risk, inexpensive compared to other activities, their fun level, their competition need, etc.

 

 

 

If anyone was posting directed to me - keep in mind I refuse to read anything longer than 7-8 lines. I know you think you have something really important to say, but 'believe you me'. you don't. I can reduce your post to 3 lines and not lose any information. Here is BH-Man's post: 'I know this mythical coach, she knows karate and kung-fu and she can disapear in thin air, yata-yata-yata, END'. What did I miss?

Just ignore his posts.  It's not worth your time.

Sometimes I think he's just trolling, but maybe he actually believes the things he says.

I like it.

does anyone know what rubbers Boggan was using?  Very nice blocking to alternating corners. 

The 2 color rule has a huge impact to his game.  He had/has excellent hands, twiddling and blocking with both anti and inverted to difficult angles and finishing with his FH.  In his prime he had many wins against top players of the world.

His serves look fairly simple but are tight and it was difficult even for top world class players to open very strong against it.  They were designed to coax an attack that would get Eric into blocking mode, allowing him to jerk the opponent around.  His serves are as legal (or illegal) as most other world class players.

If you were good enough you would be distracted not only by his style but his antics as well.  If you weren't good enough, he would simply smoke you.

LOL