Forehand warm up takes very long time
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Topic: Forehand warm up takes very long time
Posted By: murraylp2
Subject: Forehand warm up takes very long time
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 4:35am
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Hello, -Never had problems warming up before but when I went to warm up on day, for the first minute i literally couldnt hit the table (only with forehand, backhand is fine), my arm was not at all fluid and my motion was so bad that the ball would go straight up in the air and nowhere near the table. - For the last few weeks I have been suffering from this, forehand takes 10 minutes to even become "decent" and way longer to become fluid. -It is proving to be a major problem for me. Any tips of how I can fix this or how this has suddenly happened? -Also I am only 15 years old and been playing for 2 years Thanks |
Replies:
Posted By: 808ponger
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 4:52am
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Maybe you had a growth spurt? Also maybe warm up before you pick up the paddle - some push-ups, static and active stretching the upper body and arms/shoulders. Just stuff to get the muscles loose,limber and ready ------------- BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M |
Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 4:59am
| Change the grip to cpen and try again. The problem could be attributed to some adolescent tremor which will eventually disappear. It's better to consult your neurologist. |
Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 7:49am
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APW46 pointed out when another person brought up a similar complaint that this is usually a sign of a badly drilled stroke. You probably have your old stroke or bad habits interfering with your perfect form. Or you may not have good form and need time to get a feel for a decent stroke. The sooner you get some coaching so that you get a standard stroke, or at least do drills to make the fundamentals unshakeable, the better. ------------- https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball... Cybershape Carbon FH/BH: H3P 41D. Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train... |
Posted By: DDreamer
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 7:58am
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Sounds like you need to practice (drill) much more (I also agree you should get coaching). For now, when you drill slow things down and focus on consistency (aim for 200 without error) and producing a correct and uniform stroke. Relax and try to feel the ball when you hit it (this is easier done if you have sensible equipment). Shadow practice in front front of a mirror is also excellent for grooving technique. ------------- I know that faster equipment will make me better, I don't need to come here to figure that out |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 7:57pm
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before going to the table after you have done your stretching and warm up exercises, why don't you try doing shadow drills with footwork? ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 8:26pm
This isn't as rare as you might think. There's a good chance the root of the problem is either your grip or ready stance. The grip might have been rotated slightly off, or the thumb in the wrong position, or something like that. If the stance, you might be standing too straight, feet too close together, or something related to that. If the grip or stance are off, everything in between can get twisted out of whack, and so the stroke feels wrong and the stroke inconsistent. Get the feel of your grip and stance right and everything will likely fall into place. -Larry Hodges ------------- Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
murraylp2 wrote:Posted By: ByeByeAbout
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 9:14pm
hi murray get a robopong if you ever get the chance...hitting every day will certainly help. regards rick ------------- WORLDS BEST All AROUND ATHLETE 2007-2013  CURRENT USA TT LEVEL: 2300
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Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 04/27/2014 at 10:21pm
some good advice there, it also depends what the other player is doing some test out your cross over and wider shots ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: murraylp2
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 3:30am
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I actually already have a robo pong but its an older model so its still 38mm balls, only use it when i have a few days without training. -But I am actually in the middle of changing technique. I use to have a very robotic forehand (all from swing of body, no elbow movement), but now I have been trying to adjust that. Could that be the problem? -I sometimes warm up before playing and I have found thats made no difference
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Posted By: murraylp2
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 3:34am
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I should probably also add that currently the only way i can warm up is by: -starting by taking the ball of the bounce (cant even contact the ball if I try loop) -go back to old technique, dont move my arm at all, just swing the body. Then after getting a feel for the ball after ~5 minutes i can start using elbow as well.
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Posted By: JonathanVN
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 11:43am
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Usually if I haven't played in over a few weeks, I will start off pretty rusty. However, I have never had a situation in which I couldn't hit the ball on the tale. I guess it would also depend on your rating. I think if you are over 1500, this really should not be happening, especially since you are young. Several older players (even those that are 1800+) at my club seem to have difficulty at first, but I believe that is due to their age. Perhaps, as the others have stated, you are having growth spurts that naturally through off your coordination. ------------- 2015 USATT Ratings: 1823 (Jan) 1840 (Feb) |
Posted By: tt4me
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 12:05pm
I have had the same problem to a lessor degree. The joke I have with my coach is that I left my FH at home. We switch to warming up BH and then FH. ------------- Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802 1.5mm, the Ball Whacker is revived!<br />Samsonov Alpha+H3 Neo+802-40 1.8mm my back up<br />BCX5+H3+802-1 1.8mm New but promising.<br /> |
Posted By: debraj
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 1:16pm
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i had exactly same problem like you many times. my hitting partner would get pissed and i would get embarrassed.... it always turned out to be 1 of these 2 things: 1. racket head heavy with rubbers (80% time) 2. rubbers too old, need replacement (20%) Now here's the trick. If it is number 1, put some weight below your racket... may be stick a rubber grip with some overhang below handle...or stick a penny below the handle...or use lead tape...or reduce top rubber weight. Voila! let me know how it goes. :) ------------- 729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH) http://youtu.be/y9y9nE9g778" rel="nofollow - vid1 http://youtu.be/xqNy786yGOs" rel="nofollow - Vid 2 |
Posted By: murraylp2
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 1:37pm
Could be but I have been using this setup for ~2 months and this has only been a problem for the last 1.5 weeks. Im changing my setup in the next few weeks so ill see how that goes (innerforce AL and tenergy 05 fx 1.9mm FH) Could be head heavy, especially as im using 2 tenergies, ill see how my new setup goes though Thanks, Murray
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Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 1:59pm
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Have you been doing any other arm exercises with weights, or playing any other sport, bagging groceries to earn money after school maybe? If your arm gets tight or your swing changes from using the same muscles in a different way, it can mess with your FH hit. For some reason the BH doesn't seem as susceptible to that kind of problem. |
Posted By: Reinecke
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 5:13pm
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I used to get this sometimes. Funny thing is, it only happens when you train a lot. I feel it is some sort of mental block, but it is definitely in your head not your equipment. Perhaps give it a few days rest, go play another sport or something to let your mind reset. Another option would be to start your warmup with your BH. If your partner wants to hit FH have him hit down line, or just go stand on your FH side and hit BH. Slowly work your FH in as you go and you will have a less painful warmup  ------------- Mizutani Jun ST Tenergy 64 Tenergy 64 
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Posted By: murraylp2
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 5:23pm
All of that is quite ironic and interesting as all of those points im either already doing or are going to happen anyway -im getting a rest as i have exams so for the next 2/3 weeks i will only be playing friday and saturday -i sometimes resort to using backhand on my forehand side, just for less embarrassment haha -Could agree more about it being mental, I have noticed that when I go for a swing, the ones I miss are ones where despite me knowing that stroke, at the last minute my brain tries to make an adjustment with my arm / wrist that is completely wrong and results in the balls either hitting my side of the table, or going metres into the air! I guess ill just have to see how it goes after more of a restfull week although I think it might fix over time as I think its triggered with me trying to change technique (use more arm and wrist instead of a robotic movement all coming from the body) Thanks, Murray
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Posted By: 808ponger
Date Posted: 04/28/2014 at 5:30pm
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I too think it's mostly related to changing your technique. You're always going to get worse before you get better as you adapt and ingrain the new stroke. ------------- BTY Harimoto Stiga DNA M |
Posted By: debraj
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 3:04am
to verify this temporarily add some wait immediately when this happens. And pl give me a feedback... i also need to confirm this observation of mine. ------------- 729-F1||Rhyzm-P(FH)|| Rasant Grip orRhyzm-P max(BH) http://youtu.be/y9y9nE9g778" rel="nofollow - vid1 http://youtu.be/xqNy786yGOs" rel="nofollow - Vid 2 |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 6:39am
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If it is only a week and a half, just play through it and the problem will probably fix itself. It sounds to me like you just need to relax. When you warm up, try to make your mind blank or think about something else. |
Posted By: Hopper
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 6:50am
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I recognize the problem as well.
I started this year with some serious service training on my FH pendulum serve. Used to be a rusty movement without much spin but about 99% foolproof. Due to the training, this serve became quite a lot better but guess what happened..........
During league play, all of a sudden during the first game I started to serve with this FH pendulum straight into the net. Ok, so let's focus, eye on the ball, good backswing, loose arm.........straight into the net....  ....ang again...and again.
Takes me about a game before I manage to control this serve, leaving my teammates and even opponents in total confusion about what I'm doing behind the table.
I know it's a kind of mental issue related to improved skills that not yet have settled in my muscle memory. Still trying to perform a quality serve from start, just doesn't seem achievable right now. And indeed got already some tips from higher level league players to start off with some easier serve to allow myself first to relax the arm before executing this FH pendulum serve with maximum spin.
Hope I "grow over this" fast, cause all of this looked pretty embarrassing
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Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 7:31am
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So I younger low level player using tenergy, who trains with 38 mm balls on some days, who recently changed his forehand Technique, then wonders why it takes a little while longer to warm up hmmm sorry nothing comes to mind ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: murraylp2
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 8:27am
I appreciate how it looks but 1. you dont have know my level 2. im currently using an all+ blade which certainly tames the beast of the tenergy slightly, I have been using tenergy for ~1 year so have gotten largely used to it and have never had this problem before, using a variety of tenergy's 3. I trained 7 or 8 times in a row on different days, without using 38mm's inbetween and the effect was the same, and possibly even worse 4. I started changing my technique 2-3 months ago, and I have been gradually changing it yet one day I suddenly lost the ability to consistently hit a forehand without a 10-20 minute warm up
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Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 9:37am
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I am going to sound like a broken record but my 02 is that your timing is off because of the technique change. Also in order to know that you are executing your new stroke mechanic you are likely taking more deliberate control of your arm which leads to a lack of fluid movement. This means your attention is "inside" your body instead of "outside" your body. I would suggest you relax and focus on the ball more. Move your attention to an external point of focus. You need to make sure you actually see the ball. Timing- I am just going to repeat what I have said elsewhere. Bounce with the ball. As the ball is approaching the contact point with the table you should "sit down" or squat slightly as if you sitting on a chair. When the ball makes contact you stop, then motion as if you are standing up. If you are counter hitting it's a relatively small motion. Since the ball always has to contact your side of the table it is one of the best timing references. Basic looping- Wait for the ball to be falling from top of bounce and try to contact the ball around table height. You need to clearly recognize that the ball is on the way down. Main thing is to relax and wait for the ball. WLQ counter hit- poor vid quality but good example of arm motion and timing. Also it is a good example of the elbow movement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2lrYRfaRTA" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2lrYRfaRTA WLQ looping- Note he does not wait the on the ball to fall to table height on every ball but he is always waiting for it to be falling. Table height is just a good external reference point in the beginning. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIImvHq-nz0" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIImvHq-nz0 ------------- DHS 301 Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 9:40am
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Mental stress can mess up your technique. When you are changing your technique you are thinking (about technique). When you are thinking about technique you can't play fluidly and relaxed. But you may need to change your technique to improve (as you say you are doing). So change your technique but something like this is to be expected while you're doing it. In time it will be more automatic once you aren't thinking about it anymore. Then you will relax and things will improve. I have been through this kind of thing. It is zen applied to table tennis. Do not panic. It will solve itself. A positive way to look at this is that it is a way to train your mind to get used to playing under stress. Also, if the only bad effect is the length of time it takes you to warm up, you are fortunate. Also, what VGriper said. |
Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 10:07am
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Have you seen any video of yourself warming up badly and then again after you get it together? Maybe seeing what you are doing would help. |
Posted By: murraylp2
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 10:12am
I can only record myself playing against my robot at the moment but I will try that as soon as im free. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Posted By: BRS
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 11:30am
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Larry Hodges, who posted above as larrytt, has a blog entry today about shoulder rotation on FH hit and loop, and as usual linked to some cool videos. One you may want to watch is William Henzell's TTedge video on FH counterhit. I don't know how to post youtube links, so please cut-and-paste. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rt9gbpZGQGM I love TTedge because William shows common mistakes in his videos, not just how a perfect pro perfectly hits perfect shots. You may recognize yourself in one of those mistakes. I always do. If you haven't checked out Larry's blog http://tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1805, you should. He has interesting stuff every weekday (almost), and a huge archive of tips.
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Posted By: larrytt
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 12:35pm
Thanks for the callout, BRS! The http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/blog" rel="nofollow - daily blog is here , and the direct link to today's blog (which features shoulder rotation and 12 other segments) is http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/node/1805" rel="nofollow - here . -Larry Hodges ------------- Professional Table Tennis Coach & Writer Member, USATT Hall of Fame USATT National & ITTF Certified Coach Former Chair, USATT Coaching Committee www.TableTennisCoaching.com www.MDTTC.com |
Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 04/29/2014 at 1:46pm
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There is a link on Larry's page to one of the best vids to see bounce timing in action. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpXuiYap94" rel="nofollow - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfpXuiYap94 Notice that on his third shot the ball bounces before he does, he late on ball timing. He leans too far backward and is off balance as a result. He still makes the shot but you can see the result of not timing the ball well. ------------- DHS 301 Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH |
Posted By: Ma_Long
Date Posted: 11/08/2016 at 11:33pm
I have the same problem recently! @murraylp2: Have you get this problem fixed? Pls share your experience. |
Posted By: cmba_x
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 2:26am
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I had the same issue. I think mainly mental, which causes physical lock up on FH side. Although I think the lock up is mainly on lower body, so try immediately to be in good form on FH, bend your knees, active feet, do the rotation from bottom to up, and just think you can drive back the ball. BH seems to be 'easier' as in warm up it involve less the body, and possibly just the forearm. So I had to start with BH to 'loosen' up, then start looping on FH side which causes the 'feel' of the ball to come back and the stroke movement on FH side to come back, then I can start FH drive. I suggest to just start as if you can already do the stroke, and you know you can do it, focusing on the good form of the stroke, upper and lower body. Warm up properly to help loosen up. ------------- FX-P - JRE - FX-P H3 - Latika - FX-P |
Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 5:50am
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I have seen this many times over the years. It is scary. Almost always caused by wrist flipping or moving too much. Do not use your wrist. Dan ------------- DS |
Posted By: balldance
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 1:56pm
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I've experienced this exact problem myself. I started playing when I was 9 years old and then I quit at 13. When I started playing again at 18, I have this problem of forehand warming up taking too long. It was so embarrassing. My motion is really bad, I either drove it into the net or drove it off the table, it looked like I never played table tennis before. After at least 10 mins or 15 mins, it came back to normal and I could drive the ball consistently with good technique. The problem lasted for almost 2 years before I got over it. I'm pretty sure it's a mental problem because I knew how I should do it, but somehow my brain and muscle chose to do it incorrectly. From my experience, it's due to the rotation of the forearm and wrist, if you have this problem, try keeping your arm and wrist stable, not too relaxed, not too firm, and use mainly the lower body and shoulder rotation to drive, when you get the feel, you can start using your arm more. Don't forget to breath out when you contact the ball, it will help you relax. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 11/09/2016 at 2:24pm
I think the compact backhand stroke leaves less room for error. My forehand stroke starts off wandering all over the place. It always takes me longer to bring my forehand under control. |