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Tibhar New Poly 40+ ball review

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Topic: Tibhar New Poly 40+ ball review
Posted By: vvk1
Subject: Tibhar New Poly 40+ ball review
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 9:55am
So I had a knock with the new Tibhar 40+ plastic ball at the club with two friends for about 30min, doing both drills and a best of 5 game. Here are my impressions (which are shared by them as well):

* the ball has a visible seam
* the new ball is harder, feels a touch heavier
* when hitting the new ball, the sound is different
* the new ball bounces higher than the regular ball
* the new ball travels slower than the regular ball
* there is less spin on the new ball after playing a topspin shot

Overall, it was surprisingly easy to play with the new plastic ball. Higher bounce and less spin means that keeping the ball on the table is much easier. A spin-based attacker will need to work harder to spin the ball to the same degree as the regular 40mm ball. At the same time, blocking is almost effortless. 

IMHO, most people who like to rally will enjoy playing with the new ball. 3rd ball power attackers will need to hit the gym though ...


Tibhar New 40+ poly ball



Replies:
Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 11:38am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

So I had a knock with the new Tibhar 40+ plastic ball at the club with two friends for about 30min, doing both drills and a best of 5 game. Here are my impressions (which are shared by them as well):

* the ball has a visible seam
* the new ball is harder, feels a touch heavier
* when hitting the new ball, the sound is different
* the new ball bounces higher than the regular ball
* the new ball travels slower than the regular ball
* there is less spin on the new ball after playing a topspin shot

Overall, it was surprisingly easy to play with the new plastic ball. Higher bounce and less spin means that keeping the ball on the table is much easier. A spin-based attacker will need to work harder to spin the ball to the same degree as the regular 40mm ball. At the same time, blocking is almost effortless. 

IMHO, most people who like to rally will enjoy playing with the new ball. 3rd ball power attackers will need to hit the gym though ...


Tibhar New 40+ poly ball

The larger ball means less Rev's per sec so it will never spin like or at the same speed as the current 39.5MM ball.  More likely one will see various metal and composite blades introduced to drive the ball further in an attempt to overcome the increase air drag due to its larger size.  The men's game may look more like the current women's close to the table game.


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 11:46am
A faster blade won't make the ball spin faster because of decreased dwell.

IMHO, someone built like Xu Xin, WLQ or Persson - with big strokes - will find it easier to impart comparable amounts of spin. 


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 12:26pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

A faster blade won't make the ball spin faster because of decreased dwell.

IMHO, someone built like Xu Xin, WLQ or Persson - with big strokes - will find it easier to impart comparable amounts of spin. 

It did not happen between 38 and 40 ball size the reason is it takes longer to make a rev with the larger ball, very simple and with the additional air drag  further reduces the spin impact.  For those that play only the new ball then it becomes relative that is if someone's technique is better that generate more spin then the opponent it may make a difference but relative to the 40 mm ball the new 40+ will always have less spin.  As long as C ball is legal and available TT will be played on two different spin levels.


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 3:24pm
NOBODY & NOTHING SHALL STOP ME..

Lazy people will always decry plastics, and the blockers will benefit greatly by plastics.

I developed my blocking skills for years, with celluloid, AND I'M A KING now with plastics.
So glad for all my followers, They gave me full confidence, they listened to my peculiar ideas and now we can rejoy fruits to the full, thanks to the plastics of course.
We, the army of absolute blokers, are all the happy dogs now, and the loopers came off the underdogs.

Mr, Sharara, my darling man, you're a genius thinker indeed.   
You promoted Blockers to the Top of The World.   Thanks.

I gonna to fill up my warehous brimful with dozens of plastics, and I will play this plastics endlessly long, nothing could stop me. Never.
I am all delighted. Yes.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 4:47pm
Thanks for the review!

There is Made in China print on the box.
Do you know which factory is responsible for their production?


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 4:56pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

A faster blade won't make the ball spin faster because of decreased dwell.

IMHO, someone built like Xu Xin, WLQ or Persson - with big strokes - will find it easier to impart comparable amounts of spin. 

I expect them to raise the max sponge thickness.


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 5:04pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

Thanks for the review!

There is Made in China print on the box.
Do you know which factory is responsible for their production?

No idea. The bottom on the ball package has "XF AD" imprinted on it, but that could mean anything.


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 5:06pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

A faster blade won't make the ball spin faster because of decreased dwell.

IMHO, someone built like Xu Xin, WLQ or Persson - with big strokes - will find it easier to impart comparable amounts of spin. 

I expect them to raise the max sponge thickness.

Maybe. Didn't zeio once link to a research paper that stated that it is almost pointless to increase rubber thickness too much and that the current 2.2mm thickness is almost optimal?


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 5:12pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

NOBODY & NOTHING SHALL STOP ME..

Lazy people will always decry plastics, and the blockers will benefit greatly by plastics.

I developed my blocking skills for years, with celluloid, AND I'M A KING now with plastics.
So glad for all my followers, They gave me full confidence, they listened to my peculiar ideas and now we can rejoy fruits to the full, thanks to the plastics of course.
We, the army of absolute blokers, are all the happy dogs now, and the loopers came off the underdogs.

Mr, Sharara, my darling man, you're a genius thinker indeed.   
You promoted Blockers to the Top of The World.   Thanks.

I gonna to fill up my warehous brimful with dozens of plastics, and I will play this plastics endlessly long, nothing could stop me. Never.
I am all delighted. Yes.

Your beloved blocks would become slower, higher and very much smashable with the new ball. In other words, "Цыплят по осени считают".




Posted By: LaRedoute
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 5:16pm
"Lazy people will always decry plastics, and the blockers will benefit greatly by plastics."

AREN'T THE BLOCKERS THE LAZIEST PLAYERS? LOL

i just try to keep the ball short and low and don't feed them with my speed and spin and they start to make holes in the net :) recently i won against blocker on my level  without a single loop.. in the end my pushes down the line forced him to loop and i absolutely killed his ridiculously weak loops with flat hits.. of course it is a question of rating and skills but a blocker generally needs your speed and spin to use it against you.. just stop giving him what he need and force him to move his fat a%% for the pointLOL


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 5:30pm
Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

NOBODY & NOTHING SHALL STOP ME..

Lazy people will always decry plastics, and the blockers will benefit greatly by plastics.

I developed my blocking skills for years, with celluloid, AND I'M A KING now with plastics.
So glad for all my followers, They gave me full confidence, they listened to my peculiar ideas and now we can rejoy fruits to the full, thanks to the plastics of course.
We, the army of absolute blokers, are all the happy dogs now, and the loopers came off the underdogs.

Mr, Sharara, my darling man, you're a genius thinker indeed.   
You promoted Blockers to the Top of The World.   Thanks.

I gonna to fill up my warehous brimful with dozens of plastics, and I will play this plastics endlessly long, nothing could stop me. Never.
I am all delighted. Yes.


I for one would like to see a video so we can all learn the blocking methods of The Master.  Of course you need to be able to return serve and get into the point before this helps you, but that's another point.  Also, what followers?  Maybe we can see videos of them instead.  Sharara a genius?  News to me.


Posted By: jonyer1980
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 5:52pm
Mr Sharara can feel proud of the destruction of TT modern era. Thanks to his brightfull idea he has led TT into a plain/simple game which lacks the main essence it once had: spin




-------------
Rosewood V FL

Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH

Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH


Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 6:38pm
Originally posted by jonyer1980 jonyer1980 wrote:

Mr Sharara can feel proud of the destruction of TT modern era. Thanks to his brightfull idea he has led TT into a plain/simple game which lacks the main essence it once had: spin




The game won't be the same after the new plastic/poly ball, that is for sure. But I think you have not correct view about the "spin" connected with the new ball's topic.
Of course, there is possibility the level of spin to be lower than before, but it is not the most serious factor in the game with the new balls I think. Today I was OK with the spin and the new ball Xushaofa, as my partner send many balls out of the table because of the spin I produced with loops. But in these moments I did not use my regular loops, but something near to vertical loop like I am playing VS defender.
Then I felt myself like a player from the 60's. I posted some videos of Alser and Johansson before time and may be I need to watch them once again.

I am not sure why, but I think the worst thing with the new ball is the lower speed in loops and the different trajectory of the ball as all. Here is the problem - just different trajectory, because of the higher weight,size and lower speed, not so much the spin.
These are my own thoughts based on my own experience, nobody is obliged to share or believe in them until he try by himself these new balls.
The step is done. I can not decide by myself only from just one training if it is UP or DOWN, POSITIVE or NEGATIVE. We all will need a time before to make general conclusions.
It will be great to see how the TOP players will use this ball, then I will make conclusion for myself.

I will buy as soon is possible more and more different new balls until I find the most playable for myself. Old balls are "dead" for me yet.
If I find something new and useful I will share it here.


Posted By: sweetstrike
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 7:13pm
Hows the durability?


Posted By: BH-Man
Date Posted: 07/11/2014 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by igorponger igorponger wrote:

NOBODY & NOTHING SHALL STOP ME..

Lazy people will always decry plastics, and the blockers will benefit greatly by plastics.

I developed my blocking skills for years, with celluloid, AND I'M A KING now with plastics.
So glad for all my followers, They gave me full confidence, they listened to my peculiar ideas and now we can rejoy fruits to the full, thanks to the plastics of course.
We, the army of absolute blokers, are all the happy dogs now, and the loopers came off the underdogs.

Mr, Sharara, my darling man, you're a genius thinker indeed.   
You promoted Blockers to the Top of The World.   Thanks.

I gonna to fill up my warehous brimful with dozens of plastics, and I will play this plastics endlessly long, nothing could stop me. Never.
I am all delighted. Yes.

 

I for one would like to see a video so we can all learn the blocking methods of The Master.  Of course you need to be able to return serve and get into the point before this helps you, but that's another point.  Also, what followers?  Maybe we can see videos of them instead.  Sharara a genius?  News to me.
 
Blockers had better prospects of success in the 38 MM ball and speed glue era. Google Waldner blocks.


-------------
Korea Foreign Table Tennis Club
Search for us on Facebook: koreaforeignttc


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 5:05am
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

Hows the durability?


Easy to break with a single all power smash, especially if you don't shoot the table, but the cement floor... Smile
One friend said just a single hit with the blade's edge instead rubber was enough too.
On the box with Xushaofa balls there is a signature:
 More durable, one piece can be used as two Big smile
That is the most funny here as I don't think so, definitely.
One piece can be used as two, but only if you don't hit so strong.

I doubt for a serious tournament that ball could be used for even one single match with 7 games.
It will be hard I think after all the pressure.
I suppose only seamed poly balls could be more stronger, but I am still waiting to know from another forum members how are the things there.


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 5:40am
The Tibhar ball is seamed, and seemed to survive smashing (against the table not cement floor :-)).


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 6:59am
Yes, I saw the picture in your review. May be I will test these balls soon.


Posted By: Imago
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 1:08pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

In other words, "Цыплят по осени считают".


A propos chickens, do the new balls break like eggs?


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 1:20pm
Originally posted by Imago Imago wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

In other words, "Цыплят по осени считают".


A propos chickens, do the new balls break like eggs?

LOL Nope, they definitely survive the "fork smash" test LOL


Posted By: Vardant
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 2:34pm
Originally posted by sweetstrike sweetstrike wrote:

Hows the durability?
We're still on the first one after 4hrs. Got hit by an edge a few times, smashed into the table and then the wall a few times too.

Either some people are really unlucky or I'm lucky, we'll see in a month I guess.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/12/2014 at 4:01pm
What is the official price of these and what about a box with 120 pcs? Is this available with TIBHAR's poly balls?


Posted By: igorponger
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 1:02am
ALL PLASTIC BALLS TOO FAR FROM PERFECTION.

THE Production Code XF AD   = 06 14 =June 2014.

ITTF BoD directive
--"All the balls 40+ marked as produced prior to January 2016 can not be used for ITTF official events whenever after the date.."

Speaking straighforwards, all the plastics to come on market nowdays are just a provisional, trial product to be perfected still further...

We can not take those underdone products seriously. Sorry.


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 4:16am
Please provide the actual source - a URL to an official ITTF document.

For example, according to http://www.ittf.com/stories/Pictures/balls_14_14.pdf" rel="nofollow - http://www.ittf.com/stories/Pictures/balls_14_14.pdf , there is no time limit of any kind on Tibhar 40+ SYNTT*** (Plastic with seam) balls.



Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 6:27am
So, what is the price of these new TIBHAR balls and do you know if 120 pcs box is available?


Posted By: Vardant
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 6:42am
I've only seen a 72 pcs box, at least from Tibhar. $1.5 per ball. 


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 8:05am
Originally posted by Vardant Vardant wrote:

I've only seen a 72 pcs box, at least from Tibhar. $1.5 per ball. 


Hello, I'll be glad to see a link where I can buy 72 pcs from TIBHAR plastic balls for 1.5 USD (near 1.10 EUR) per piece, or 108 USD total (near 79.36 EUR), which is really good price I think for these new balls.
I checked the site of TIBHAR, but there is no plastic balls posted there for now.
This is very strange.
Only the JPS+ are available, they are 100 balls in box, made in Japan, but they are not plastic I think.
One ball of them cost "only 1.98 EUR". Very solid price.
http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Accessories/JPS-100-pack.html" rel="nofollow - http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Accessories/JPS-100-pack.html
Another offer from TIBHAR with 72 pcs box with 3 *** balls on their site is this one:
http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Accessories/3-star-ball-72-pack.html" rel="nofollow - http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Accessories/3-star-ball-72-pack.html
Here the price for one ball is 1.27 EUR after calculation.


http://store.tibhar.com/en/Balls-Accessories/3-star-ball-72-pack.html" rel="nofollow -


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 8:16am
http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/info/p13512_Tibhar-3-----Ball-40--SYNTT-72er.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/info/p13512_Tibhar-3-----Ball-40--SYNTT-72er.html - I think it works out at 1.31 EUR per ball with VAT.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/13/2014 at 8:27am
Thanks! That is OK 1.31 EUR per ball, but the offer posted without link from Verdant was more interesting ( 1.10 EUR per piece) Star
I noticed after a short searching they are offering also the new Joola plastic 40+ balls named SUPER-P.
http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/info/p13467_Joola-Ball-Super-P-3-Star-72er.html" rel="nofollow - http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/info/p13467_Joola-Ball-Super-P-3-Star-72er.html
It will be really great if someone in Germany (as they have everything from each brand first) just to make fast comparison between all the balls after test and to give us info which ball is the most playable, no matter of the price.
What I felt after some hours with the Xushaofa's balls I can't recommend to other players.
I am wondering where are Butterfly and what they are waiting for...


Posted By: Vardant
Date Posted: 07/14/2014 at 6:36am
It's probably not do you any good, but here's the shop I bought mine from  http://www.vsenastolnitenis.cz/micky/zavodni-plastove-76" rel="nofollow - http://www.vsenastolnitenis.cz/micky/zavodni-plastove-76

At this point in time, they do not ship outside the Czech Republic. But I've noticed, that after a recent site redesign, they added another currency, so it may change.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/14/2014 at 1:08pm
I ordered from the local TIBHAR dealer from these balls yet, they will be here tomorrow.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 6:50am
Wow, I received these new TIBHAR balls and I am disappointed from the 1st touch only!!!
These balls....Please take a careful look:






It seems after watching the SUPER MOON some days ago I can compare this ball with the moon better than the Xushaofa's balls LOL

I will test the balls later today and I will give you a short review this night. To be honest, I am not sure when I will buy from these balls once again, I mean the quality...






Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 7:46am
Update!
From 30 balls received only 12 are without problems, or minimal problems. Seven (7) from the balls even have a visible line like the leder 38 mm Shield brand balls....That's not good.
Eleven (11) from the balls have too many small holes in the connecting line - I posted photos of them yet, but now - you can see the lines I met right now after careful look.



Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 8:49am
Another nice ball from TIBHAR after new look:


Confused Big smile Embarrassed Shocked Clap


Posted By: LaRedoute
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 9:47am
Angry what the hell is this?! i'm waiting my tibhar 40+ balls to arrive today and if they look like this i'll send them back. shame on you ITTF. you totally spoilled that beautifull sport Dead


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 9:49am
Wow!  That is really bad!  Thank you ITTF.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 9:54am
Request to TIBHAR already sent.
But as the balls are Made in China...I am not sure who will take the responsibility for the bad quality.


Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 10:11am
This is really cr*ppy...


Posted By: t_retsila
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 11:09am
I've had a hit with a few different 40+ balls, and have a dozen of the DHS 3* ones.  I haven't yet seen anything like those Tibhar ones that look awful.  The DHS balls seem very durable to me as well.
 
Re the playing characteristics, i think everyone needs to have a go with them before assuming what and why they behave differently.
 
My view is that topspin shots bounce higher than the celluloid ball, but I think (just my simple assessment, not fact) this is due to the spin wearing off, and at the point of bounce and beyond the topspin is having less effect, therefore not pulling the ball downwards. I would say prior to the bounce there's not much difference in flight.
 
Backspin, and more specifically float shots definately bounce less, and sometimes seem to slide off the table.
 
Blocking does seem easier, and there doesn't seem much of a problem controlling the placement & speed of blocks.
 
A couple of really good counterhitters at my club seem very happy counter spinning loops very early off the bounce


-------------
BTY Photino + Tenergy 05fh & 05fx BH

TB ALC + Tenergy 05 both sides


Posted By: Vardant
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 11:36am
Hmm, just checked the six balls I have and they are all right. Nothing like you see in the pictures. Probably a bad batch.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 12:55pm
Originally posted by Vardant Vardant wrote:

Hmm, just checked the six balls I have and they are all right. Nothing like you see in the pictures. Probably a bad batch.


Hmm LOL That was more correct - Hmmmmmmmmm ConfusedShockedEmbarrassedBig smile
Yeah...for 6 pcs there is no problem as I have 12 from 30 that are up down OK, but the rest 18 are...
So you will know what is possible to buy in the next time.
It seems there is no so high control about quality with TIBHAR's latest products.

I tested the ball today and I can say only we broke the ball easy for just a game...
These balls are very fragile. Definitely the durability is not high.

Next - I noticed the game with TIBHAR's poly ball is little more faster than the game with XUSHAOFA's ball, but also very hard to play in loops only, as the ball has very unpredictable rebound from time to time, we were laughing so much today Big smileBig smile

Look positively - you have free reviews and I have enough high experience to stay far away from these Tibhar balls in the future. May be I will test Andro, Joola, Butterfly, DHS and Stiga until general conclusion.

Up to this moment I think after these balls the game won't be the same, but very different. Probably companies will promote more acceptable rubbers and blades for playing with these balls in the next months.


Posted By: tt-panopticum
Date Posted: 07/15/2014 at 4:22pm
Originally posted by kolevtt kolevtt wrote:

... May be I will test Andro, Joola, Butterfly, DHS and Stiga until general conclusion. ...
That might be wasted money Wink 

Who do you think is producing the balls for Andro, Joola, Butterfly, Stiga.... and I'd not be surprised 
to see the best QC  in products of the original manufacturer (DHS/DF)  - accordingly the poor QC on the other  branded balls.

But that's my personal opinion only - the first 30 DHS balls I got don't show any of this irregularities - only roundness could be better.




Posted By: Vardant
Date Posted: 07/16/2014 at 4:41am
Butterfly is supposed to have their own factory. Otherwise, the rest is made by DHS(seamed) and Xushaofa/Palio(seamless). Not sure about Nittaku, they are probably using the Butterfly factory, but with their own "recipe".


Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 07/16/2014 at 9:59am
I heard it from a really good player who has been training with the new ball for a few days that:

Donic 40+ is  unplayable (literally crap) and so is the rest.

The only ball that stands out a little is the DHS. It also feels very heavy, considerably spinless but somewhat more playable. Still, it produces surprising behaviour quite frequently. And it breaks awesome fast: one 3-4 hour long session = one destroyed ball






Posted By: rliu
Date Posted: 07/16/2014 at 10:49am
has anyone tried the joola ones

-------------
Blade: Hurricane King 655
Rubber: Fastarc-G1


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/16/2014 at 8:26pm
Originally posted by rliu rliu wrote:

has anyone tried the joola ones


They are available in www.contra.de, so you must ask some of the forum members from Germany.
But they are busy now in celebrating of the World Cup 2014 Gold Clap
They have deserved 1-2 weeks holiday far of table tennis Big smile
By the way, the balls are marked Joola Super-P, where the letter "P" probably means Polly or Plastic.
The same letter P you can see in the next generation rubbers they are going to promote soon -
Maxxx-P and Rhyzm-P.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 12:04am
I ordered the Joola ones but I am on vacation right now - I will try them when I return home next week Wednesday.

-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 5:28am
After some games with different style players I found these balls from TIBHAR are absolutely unplayable, hard for playing for everyone no matter of the style. Even penholder who is playing more blocking and drives instead loop said it is very hard to make his game as the rebound of the ball is very different.

Enough for these balls.

 I returned 25 from the ordered 30 balls back to the dealer and I received a very good lesson do not make such kind of experiments in the future with so big quantity unchecked products.
I hope my experience was useful for everyone here, stay aware from these balls as long is possible.



Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 5:37am
I personally would like to thank you for providing such useful information. I am trying the DHS balls next week but that is the last thing I will do in this matter.

It looks like this will be my last season unless there is a radical change with regards to the balls.


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 6:01am
Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!

http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/" rel="nofollow - http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/



Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 6:11am
Will this help the ball become playable? I do not think so. I have a hunch that they are dumping all the faulty ones on us worldwide and they do not really have their reputation at risk because only DHS's ball is officially accepted in ITTF events.

What do the other suppliers have to lose? They make their own balls available as a front but in fact they are aware that they will not be making money out of it on a scale that would make it worthwhile for them to produce quality balls, with the word quality being a poor excuse in this case.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 6:11am
Wacko


Posted By: hithithit
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 7:15am
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!

http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/" rel="nofollow - http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/



That's awesome! I want to get some.


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 10:45am
The introduction of the new balls has been a flop so far, if the world international events do not spark interest the ITTF and local associations will need to evaluate there premise of moving to larger balls to make the sport more popular or You-tube friendly.  The implications for local clubs that will see a drop in coaching fees and decline of membership will set the sport back to basement play. 

  China is having a hard time generating viewing interest in its super league,as I was  watching the video's of the matches recently I noticed  the stands were nearly empty and only a few rows near the play have any fans.  I am sure there are matches with larger number of fans in attendance but it looks as if the sport has peaked in China.  


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 1:01pm


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 1:31pm
I think we might be seeing a lot of counterfeit balls flooding the market.  Everyone seems to want to try the new ball so the fake balls are selling well.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:09pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

The introduction of the new balls has been a flop so far, if the world international events do not spark interest the ITTF and local associations will need to evaluate there premise of moving to larger balls to make the sport more popular or You-tube friendly.  The implications for local clubs that will see a drop in coaching fees and decline of membership will set the sport back to basement play. 

  China is having a hard time generating viewing interest in its super league,as I was  watching the video's of the matches recently I noticed  the stands were nearly empty and only a few rows near the play have any fans.  I am sure there are matches with larger number of fans in attendance but it looks as if the sport has peaked in China.  


Yes, I think so too (although it has nothing to do with the balls we use IMHO).  Also, I have noticed in the last couple of trips to China that Chinese player's images are not so apparent in advertising and elsewhere.  I remember around 2007 seeing WLQ, Ma Lin, WH and Zhang Yining pictures on the sides of buses, doing ads for China Telecom, for the major TV company, and for VW automobiles.  I also saw quite a few pictures of Yao Ming and also the guy who was an Olympic medalist in 400 m hurdles.  Last time I was in China (June 2013) in four major cities in China I did not see the picture of any Chinese table tennis player (except a very old crumbling ad on the wall of a small convenience store in Kunming).  I did however see Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, and Lionel Messi everywhere.  One picture of Kobe Bryant in Chengdu (an ad for Lenovo) covered the entire side of a 15- story building.  Also Li Na.

This may be a reflection that TT does not quite have the same popularity it once had, even in China.  They desperately need a credible rival, as they once had with Sweden.

This impression I have could just be sampling error, but I still think it deserves some explanation.

I was in Japan for 2 weeks this June, until just a few days before the WTTC.  I was mostly in Kyoto, but also on Tokyo and a few other places.  I did not see the image of even one Japanese player, which I found quite surprising.  Not even Ai Fukuhara or Kasumi Ishikawa, who are nicely photogenic. 

Here in my local newspaper and around town, I see pictures of James Harden and Dwight Howard and JJ Watt pretty much every day.


Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:12pm
Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!

http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/" rel="nofollow - http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/



That's awesome! I want to get some.

 
GENIUS!!! Even as a player, these would be really fun to play with!!! Hidden services no problem!!!! Goodbye cheaters!!! AHAHAHAH


Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:30pm
Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!

http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/" rel="nofollow - http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/



That's awesome! I want to get some.

 
GENIUS!!! Even as a player, these would be really fun to play with!!! Hidden services no problem!!!! Goodbye cheaters!!! AHAHAHAH


Bad news for the world, this ball will make the Chinese even more dominant as it rewards players with the strongest fundamentals, including spin-reading skills.





-------------
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red



Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:36pm
Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!

http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/" rel="nofollow - http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/



That's awesome! I want to get some.

 
GENIUS!!! Even as a player, these would be really fun to play with!!! Hidden services no problem!!!! Goodbye cheaters!!! AHAHAHAH


Bad news for the world, this ball will make the Chinese even more dominant as it rewards players with the strongest fundamentals, including spin-reading skills.



I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much.  But I still like the idea.


Posted By: in2spin
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:41pm
i have for long thought that putting lines on the ball would be a cool thing.....then, finally newbies or unknowing viewers would get some semblance of the tremendous amount of spin that is happening

:)


Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:


I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much.  But I still like the idea.


I think it's a fantastic idea, something that is completely opposite of what ITTF has tried to do to enhance the chances of upsetting Chinese domination anyway they can (e.g. 11-pts games). 
It's no wonder this 2-color ball idea did not come from the ITTF. 


-------------
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red



Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 4:02pm
If the ball is spinning fast enough, which happens most of the time, the 2-color ball won't help you read the spin much, will it? You just know it's spinning fast, but not which way it's spinning. You just see a blur of mixture of white and orange   

On the other hand, it should make the spin very clear in ultra slow motion   


Posted By: vvk1
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 4:27pm
Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?


Posted By: roundrobin
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 4:32pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?


Crystal.  Less mistakes will result.






-------------
Current USATT Rating: 2181
Argentina National Team Member, 1985-1986.
Current Club: Los Angeles Table Tennis Association.
My Setup: Yinhe Q1 / T64 2.1 black / Saviga V 0.5mm red



Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 5:08pm
Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Wouldn't it make lack of spin quite clear?


True. Backspin/No spin combo serve won't work any more. And not just the serves, nothing balls in the rally are also easily spotted. Is this further dumbing down the sport or making it more spectator friendly


Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 6:16pm
Igor, I don't think you understand what we are saying. If the balls are 2-colored, you won't be tricked by nothing balls that appear spinning fast.


Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 7:27pm
I think that  he actually is joking. 


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 8:04pm
Please, don't put any borders of the sense of humor here Smile


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 8:37pm
I deleted a grotesquely inappropriate comment.  Certain things are over the line, at least on an English language forum. 


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/17/2014 at 8:39pm
Discussion is going too much off the topic, combined with political conclusions from just a joke.
Come back to the plastic balls topic.



Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 12:12pm
Originally posted by Baal Baal wrote:

Originally posted by roundrobin roundrobin wrote:

Originally posted by popperlocker popperlocker wrote:

Originally posted by hithithit hithithit wrote:

Originally posted by vvk1 vvk1 wrote:

Relax guys - all these frustrations are pointless. Save your energy for the two-toned balls which are being introduced in the Chinese Super League this season!

http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/" rel="nofollow - http://tabletennista.com/2014/7/chinese-super-league-introduces-two-toned/



That's awesome! I want to get some.

 
GENIUS!!! Even as a player, these would be really fun to play with!!! Hidden services no problem!!!! Goodbye cheaters!!! AHAHAHAH


Bad news for the world, this ball will make the Chinese even more dominant as it rewards players with the strongest fundamentals, including spin-reading skills.



I am pretty sure that anyone in the top 100 in the world already has sufficient spin-reading skills that this ball would not help them much.  But I still like the idea.

Not sure about this. The Chinese and French are known for using their borderline illegal services(hidden and toss). Also, the Chinese rely on the 3rd ball kill... If anything, the German team may take over China.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 12:40pm
It would make dead-ball serves pretty useless, but the thing I notice about high level serves (and something Eric Owens used to spend a lot of time teaching me) is that  the key to sneaky serving is  not to serve dead.  It is to have serves that are heavy spin and light spin (but not dead), so opponent can't use label to see spin.  Probably both those kinds of serves will just look like a light yellow blur with these balls.  The goal of high-level serving isn't to get people to miss, it is to have receiver hit a weak return, which for someone in the top 100 in the world only needs to be  off by a few centimeters. 

The receiver has to respect the possibility that you may be serving very heavy, but if they over compensate, they are hosed.

(There is a lot more to good serving than just this, but this is a pretty common strategy, and I have seen Ma Lin destroy people using only this).


Posted By: hookumsnivy
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 1:05pm
I think the 2 tone ball will hurt defensive players more than anything.  If you are a chopper and depend on spin variation, this will help limit the mistakes by the attacker.  It will be more obvious how much or little spin is on the ball.


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 1:31pm
Above a relatively small number of revs/second it will like the same no matter how much spin there is, so maybe not much effect overall.


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 2:36pm
38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.


Posted By: PierreAd
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).


Posted By: lineup32
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 4:59pm
Originally posted by PierreAd PierreAd wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).

If the direction of the TT game is to make it easier to return the ball rather then generate a winning stroke by either player for an  immediate winner or that causes the opponent to make an outright error or a weak return then the entire structure of the game should be changed including serve,  points and equipment that help/encourage players to return balls for longer rallies.  Maybe a time limit say a rally has to last 5 minutes before a player can make a point.  LOL


Posted By: popperlocker
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 6:42pm
Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

Originally posted by PierreAd PierreAd wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).

If the direction of the TT game is to make it easier to return the ball rather then generate a winning stroke by either player for an  immediate winner or that causes the opponent to make an outright error or a weak return then the entire structure of the game should be changed including serve,  points and equipment that help/encourage players to return balls for longer rallies.  Maybe a time limit say a rally has to last 5 minutes before a player can make a point.  LOL
I don't know about you, but I can't watch 38mm games. Timo vs Waldner was like watching paint dry, there were more unforced errors than winners. The game should have been changed to "Pick ball off the ground" 40mm games are a little better, but still has a good serving of unforced errors. The Chinese even prefer to watch Basketball, Tennis, and Soccer over TT. 
What if basketball players used water balloons instead of a basketball? What if Tennis players used a rubics cube as a ball? What if soccer players used golf balls instead of soccer balls? 38mm TT was like using Rubics Cube Tennis, like watching two blind children play.


Posted By: LUCKYLOOP
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 7:03pm
Originally posted by PierreAd PierreAd wrote:

Originally posted by lineup32 lineup32 wrote:

38 MM ball high spin
40 MM Ball medium spin
40+ MM ball Low spin

the direction of the game seems clear how one color's or marks the ball seems to be a minor issue.

Well, using a two-colours balls goes in the same direction : it would be easier for the opponent to judge the rotation of the ball (and thus, less errors and longer rallies).


We used a 2-color ball in practice about 3 weeks ago. The other guy played with long pips on his BH. He chopped and blocked off the table. It was definitely easy to see his rotational changes to the ball in rallies.

-------------
Hntr Fl / 4H & BH Xiom Sigma Pro 2 2.0
Yinhe T-2 / 4H Xiom Sig Pro 2 2.0 BH Xiom Omega IV Elite Max
Gam DC / 4H DHS Hurricane 8 39deg 2.1 BH GD CC LP OX
HARDBAT / Hock 3 ply / Frenshp Dr Evil OX


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/18/2014 at 9:24pm
What about clothes with this double/triple colored ball ?


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/20/2014 at 5:41pm
I played with some of the Joola 40+ ITTF approved plastic balls today.  It seems most likely they are made in the same factory as the Tibhar ones, although I don't actually know this for a fact.

They were nicely round, appeared slightly easier to see, had a very hard feeling -- you really felt the contact with the blade.  The bounce was nice on our our somewhat old Tibhar Smash 28 tables.  I wouldn't say they sounded exactly like celluloid balls, but the sound was not anywhere near as awful as some of the plastic balls making the rounds a few months ago.  They don't sound broken.  I think I agree with other people in that it may be slightly harder to get heavy spin on the ball, either serving or looping, I played with a couple of 2400+ players today and it may just be imagination but it seemed like their spin was not quite so intimidating. 

All in all, though, to my great surprise, seeing them for the first time, I quite liked them.  (I was very critical of ITTF for doing this change).  I really don't think people will take too long to adjust, and I for one, based on what I have seen so far, will not make any equipment change for now.  If later I decide to make a change, it will not be anything drastic.  I suspect people will adjust to whatever changes there are quite quickly, probably without having to change blade or rubber. This applies not just to equipment but also to technique.  I seemed to do better when I actually tried to not hit quite so hard.  I need to keep an eye on that.  It is not exactly the same as what we have had for last ten years or so, but nowhere near as big an adjustment as going from 38 to 40 mm.

Next time I play I am going to pull one out without telling anyone and see if my practice partner notices anything at all.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/20/2014 at 6:19pm
Thanks Baal, may be there is a general difference in the quality of these and TIBHAR 40+ if you can not find a serious difference between the playing skills with the old and new ball.
I am not sure who is producing these balls you have tested, but it is not possible to feel almost the same these factors - spin and speed during play.
Of course most of the professionals will stay with their current equipment until something new comes on the market. Tenergy 101 for example. Or Rasant Twin Turbo.
I am sure with the new materials the ball will be increased by ITTF once again in the next 5 years.
May be up to 42-43mm.
Smile


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 07/20/2014 at 6:41pm
I definitely did not see the production flaws that you documented above for the Tibhar balls.  Time will tell how common that problem is, maybe I just got lucky.  Also, it occurs to me that I have not examined all six balls that came in the package, just two of them. 

I played today for about an hour.  Next time I will play longer, will learn more.  So far, nowhere near as awful as I feared.

I just went back and read the very first post on this thread.  I would say that is exactly what I would say too based on what I saw today.  One thing I wonder, is given that I have read this comment about these balls in more than one place, did that subconsciously alter my perception?

Edit.  It says Made in China on the Joola box. 

Edit 2.  None of the six balls in my box have the problems Kolev found in his sample of Tibhar balls.  Mine were shipped by Megaspin.


Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 07/20/2014 at 6:48pm
Well, that's okay, really.
I played with may be two levels more lower player and I just lost a game because nothing worked as well with the Tibhar 40+ balls.
Nobody liked here these Tibhar 40+ balls as we all noticed they are for other kind of table tennis.
Beer Pong, for example.
I am currently waiting to see these Joola Super-P balls, it will be really interesting to check their skills.


Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 10:11am
I had a word with my local Tibhar supplier to find out what is the date on the seamed balls they have in stock and I was shocked to hear that the latest batch they got recently is from last June. It is almost a year since since then.

Has anyone encountered a more recent batch of those balls?


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 11:02am
No.

It is possible that Tibhar, Joola, Donic, Stiga, and other companies that have been selling re-labeled DHS balls are waiting on the newest DHS balls to come out (the so-called D40+) and then they will start putting their names on those.  They will be made with a new type of plastic and a new seam-sealing technology that may be similar to what Nittaku is using. Zeio dug up a few patents that suggest that, anyway. 

It is also possible that many companies were as upset about the quality of the Chinese seamed balls as many of us here.  That is probably why Tibhar started marketing seamless balls as well.

Will these D40 balls be better?  Well they certainly can't be worse!  So I try to stay hopeful.  Ideally they would be pretty much like the Nittaku Japan balls. 

By the way, I did manage to obtain some DHS balls with a November manufacture date.  They are rounder.  But in terms of bounce, they are as bad as ever.  I didn't find out if they are more durable because I didn't want to play with them because of the low bounce.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 8:28pm
Ovtcharov's persistent complaints are all I need to know. His attitude to the ball with be the simplest barometer of change.

-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 9:24pm
Yep.  He speaks for all of us on this.


Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 10:09pm
Since this is the only thread about pballs on the home page and the site's search button doesnt work for me to dig up a XSF/NP40+ thread i wanted to make a small comment about pballs after playing extensively with the XSF ball.

After training with only XSF balls for an upcoming tournament I see why people love this ball. Its great for long rallies. Absolutely easy to loop. My box is from tt11 and the balls are pretty durable. I noticed that they dont become glass-like after use unlike the NP40+, and dont dent easily. If they crack, they break. NP40+ sometimes dent and become uneven.

My question is are there are any pro events/pro leagues that actually use the XSF balls? I wonder what pros think about them.



-------------
Main:
Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g
FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm

Chopper:
Stratus Power Defense 85g
FH: Hybrid K3 max
BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm

USATT: 1725


Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 10:32pm
No, unfortunately.


Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 05/15/2016 at 11:44pm
XSF (and their clones) = best and most durable 40+ ball.... 

-------------
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/feedback-thepongprofessor_topic69419.html" rel="nofollow - Feedback


Posted By: Hans Regenkurt
Date Posted: 05/16/2016 at 5:07am
As far as I know, pros prefer seamed. I talked to a former national team coach and he said the XSF makes a silly sound like a round marrow. He clearly did not like it. There is a club that coaches very  good juniors that I know of, they do not use XSF, not even for multiball training. On the other hand, I friend talked to a renowned multiball trainer at the time when the ball change took effect and it turned out he preferred XSF for multiball drills. My perception is that the XSF guys are the minority around here. Personally, I find that XSF balls take away the subtleties of table tennis.


Posted By: ttTurkey
Date Posted: 05/16/2016 at 7:26am
Personally I like the XSF ball.

The biggest problem that I have with the plastic ball and nearly everyone that I speak to says the same thing, is that there is such a big variation between the way that the different balls play.

There were far smaller differences between the various celluloid 40mm 3* balls than the 40+ balls.



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