Ma Long vs Joo Saehyuk. Fantastic match.

 

Inspirational performance.    Anyone who wants to know why you should never give up during a game should watch that match.

Warning # The MT-Final: China Vs Korea was blocked for a few hours ago. 

2. Jeong Sangeun - Chuang ChihYuan @ 27:48

3. Lee Jungwoo - Chiang Hung Chieh @ 53:43

4. Joo Sae hyuk - Chuang Chih Yuan @ 1:26:03

What a high level he show on these vids !!!

There are some good defenders but Joo has brought this style of play so high combining beautiful shots and results.

Yes, very high level from Joo! In my opinion is one of the greatest tt-players who has written, maybe, the biggest part in the history of defenders with his effective and really beautiful game

 

No, it's free to view. The stream is in HD with English commentator.

[Oct 3] WD-SF2: Cheng Meng/Zhu Yuling - Lee Ho Ching/NG Wing Nam [HD] [ Full Match]

[Oct 4] MS-SF2: FAN Zhendong Vs CHUANG Chih Yuan [HD] [Full Match/Chinese]

 

*Note: a part of the 2nd set is missing

Short form

Thanks Janus700!

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You must know the strokes in order to know that Liu Shiwen and Zhu Yuling don't have strokes. What is your own assessment about your chance to beat Liu Shiwen or Zhu Yuling in terms of %.

For example, you think you have 25% chance, 50%, 75% or 90% chance to beat either one of those two women players?  Please let us know your own assessment.

If any forummer interested in assessing assiduous' chance to win, please feel free to give your assessment.

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Good point, I have not seen that either.

Ma Long had a very hard time to beat Joo in the team event, yet Xu Xin won easily in the men's singles when facing Joo.  Just don't know what XX has got but ML doesn't have?

Yes, I Want to see this match too.

Joo and Ma Long are teammates in the Chinese Super League.  Usually, this should mean that Ma Long should have an easier time with Joo, but obviously, something is different.

I take that back - it's Xu Xin's height and grip - he just gets that sidespin to lift chop more easily.

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Thanks for the video.

I knew the scores before watching this video.  (Turns out to be the same.)

Joo got  2, 5, 2, 7.  A total of 16 points - averaged 4 points per game.  XX won easily and comfortably.

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What about Ma Long?  In team's match ML played Joo.  (ML won).

1st game:   11 - 9     (ML won in a close game.)

2nd game:  11- 9      (ML won another close game.)

ML:  You can see ML was so happy as if he told himself - "Thank God, I won."

XX:   Not much of an expression, it was an easy win, no competition what-so-ever.

I volunteer. Honestly, I think he has zero chance against these two no-stroke women.

I also suggest he will be overpowered by these two women with their muscle twitch, resulting in many outright kills where he doesn't even touch the ball.

Frankly, these two women probably can beat up any high level players, male or female, in the USA.

 

What's even more incredible is that he probably hasn't played women rated higher than him in USATT tournaments who would show him how effective these strokes are.  But then again, this is the same person who believes that Timo Boll, Dima Ovtcharov, Vladimir Samsonov and Michael Maze have bad looping form.

Well, XX is lefty and he plays angle lot better than a righty.

The big reason is XX's forehand shot is just more powerful than ML. Then you may say, why XX

doesn't seems to hold up hand against ML in forehand exchange? The reason is XX is slow and his swing motion has wide radius so he has to hit his forehand further away from table while ML is fast and be able to stay closer to the table. Plus, due to XX's penhold style, he has to cover a wider area with forehand resulting him hitting the ball on its down from the peak so he has to impact more spin, thus, further reducing the power.

When playing a chopper, it is totally different situation. It is slow pace that enables XX to stay close the table, exerting his fearsome power. Unlike ML, many XX's shots were just too powerful that Joo didn't even touch the ball. Did I mention he was lefty earlier?

XX played Joo several times, every time, XX not only beat him but beat him with ease.

 

Basically, to measure one's absolute power, you can see how he handles a chopper. If one can routinely make killer shots against the best chopper, then he has the power.

Only very few players can make a great chopper like Joo helpless. XX is the one, Chen Qi is another one who happens also a lefty and well known for his pure forehand power.  Joo's compatriot, retired Ryu was also effective against Joo. Not surprisingly, Ryu is also well known for his forehand power.  

Yes, for XX, it's no biggie, as he had played Joo several times in the past and every time, he just absolutely dismantled Joo. Playing ML, Joo had all the fighting spirit while playing XX, Joo just didn't have much will power to put a decent resist. It shows XX's power is just that overwhelming even Joo knew he didn't have much chance.

As matter of fact, Chinese team and TV thought there was no suspense at all about the result between XX and Joo, they didn't even bother to broadcast that match.

Enjoyed it. 

Thank you Janus 700.

When you saw my post, you pretty much knew my assessment:  You have ZERO % chance to beat those two "no-strokes women players".

Now with the 2 forummers here expressed the same, we have 3 guys here came to the same conclusion.

Skip

Best performance by ML & XX:

ML:  11 - 9 and 11 - 9  (Joo got 9 points each for 2 games. That's darn close.)

XX:  11 - 2 and 11 - 2  (Joo got only 2 points each for 2 games. No competition at all.)

Worst performance by ML & XX:

XX:  11 - 7  (XX worst performance, but still beat Joo comfortably).

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Thanks to NextLevel and RPB23 detailed analyses why the matches ended that way.

Sandiway

your personal attack is not an argument for or against my opinion, skippers. It is also kind of a cheap, straw-man strategy. You attack something that i don't claim. I know the women are about 1000 points higher rated than me so I would be lucky to get a couple of points. This has no bearing on the fact that their strokes make me want to staple my eyes shut and never watch female ping pong again.

This is not a function of them being women either. I have recently watched a couple of women, one from vietnam and one from europe, who have very nice, full strokes. Names escaping me now but some of you may remember, links were posted here. What is even more weird, is the CNT women are coached by MEN, with excellent stroke mechanics. How do they end up with these ugly twitch-strokes is really a surprising to me. 

Just communicated with a celebrity boy, Kirill Tarasenko 16yo, participant for Kazakhstam Noc at the Asian Game table tennis events.

He confirmed that the ball in use was CHAMPION celluloid Korea-made. The ball to be scarcely found someplace on Europa-America market, but on Asian region markets only.

I admire very much to see if XU Xin is good enough to gain a golden glory with hard plastic DHS as much as he did with celluloid mild-soft meterial.
   World Men's Cup oncoming next week will be an answer.    

Sigh... What looks like an ugly twitch-stroke to you is  a very efficient and admirable stroke. 

They use their body momentum, excellent minimal backswing, and contact and control the ball very well.

I have re-read my post, I did not find anything that I attacked you.  As one member here commented that you watched but you didn't see.  Your skill level is just too low to appreciate how skillful those two women players are, how fast they are and how quick they recover after the stroke and their foot-work.

I'll tell you, they are fast.

+1

Sure, I mean, everyone here really knows they play very effectively. The European with "nice" strokes is probably the Romanian  Elizabeta  Samara. However, I hope to see her develop her game to a point when she can actually successfully compete with the ladies in question (although... she recently beat Fukuhara !). BTW, I lost today in a tournament match to a lady with really "ugly" strokes and ugly short pip 802-40 on her forehand... she was more consistent than I.

Chen Chien-An is a lefty, he is a notoriously poor player against pips chopper.

(Actually, all top players of TPE have problems with pips chopper.)

Chen Chien-An (a lefty) played Muramatsu Yuto 3 times.  He won the earliest match (took 7 games) but lost 2 most recent matches - both at 1 - 4.

Not sure the "Lefty" is the answer that XX did tremendously better than ML (against Joo).

But I respect you guys' opinion.

I didn't like xu xin's cheating and stalling. I respect cheaters and stallers, nothing wrong with doing whatever it takes. However, it's not my cup of tea. I prefer to watch the raw passion and relentless attacking of Fan Zhen Dong. I am hereby a member of the FAN ZHEN DONG IS THE BOSS fan club!

so they played with the standard ball non 40+?

 

True. Last game of the old ball so XX will be remembered as the last winner of the celluloid era.

I wouldn't say that XX was cheating. It is hard to judge a ball is on the edge or on the side anyway.  Stalling is annoying, but appears to be a  legal tactic in the tournament. 

Take 'Pips' out of the sentence. 

He is simply a choppers' killer.

Or, more generally speaking, he kills any one who doesn't play fast paced yet still consistent and powerful enough like top CNT members, which explains why he has been so consistently dominant against non-Chinese players cause they simply don't possess the combos of speed, consistency and power.

Speed, consistency and power, in essence, are the modern-day pro table tennis players' recipe to reach the top.

  

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Most, if not all, modern day choppers using pips (long of short pips) on one side, and inverted on the other side for FH attacks (or chops).

There may be some, but I don't know them, who use inverted on both side to chop and attack.

XX is a "Pips Choppers' Killer" seems to be an appropriate description. 

(I will not argue about this any more, if you want to have the "final say" that's OK with me.  However, I am convinced XX is a "Pips Choppers' Killer".)

Agree. 

Any sports with referees, you can not label players cheater as ultimately it is referee's job to make a call. A player has the right to raise a question or challenge, but it is the referee who makes the final decision.

Plus, the effect of that  incident in the third game was moot as Fan won the game.

This is analogous to legal system. Judges/jurors make the decision, not the prosecutors or defenders. Even lawyers who's job are to find loopholes in the law are not labeled cheaters.  

 

Well, Joo also chops with his inverted side from forehand. So, strictly he is not 100% pips chopper.

As a matter of fact, regardless one's equipment, if he plays as  a chopper, XX just eats him for breakfast.

To beat a chopper, most important attribute is the power that can penetrate chopper's defense.

A penetrating power can really bring fear into chopper's mind as he is aware any moment, a big shot can finish the play.

Second attribute is consistency. Choppers beating attackers most by consistency by signaling to them you are not gonna break my defense, thus, making attackers lose confidence and committing more errors. But, if an attacker is just as consistent as the chopper, that neutralizes a chopper's main inherent advantage.

Third attribute is the control and placement (including angles), so it will make a chopper's life more difficult.

XX beat Joo mostly by his power. Since he can really break down Joo's defense, he typically beat him with ease.

ML beat Joo mostly by his consistency and placement, hence a lot harder way.

Chen Chien-An (a lefty), lacks both power and consistency to beat Joo.

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That makes sense.

XX is not a stronger player than ML.

ML can beat Joo for sure, but can not kill Joo bad.

XX kills Joo pretty bad, Joo had no chance.

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Now, about another pips chopper:

Shiono Masato gave Dima a hard time (their last match), Dima came back from behind in the 7th game and won.  Dima lucked out.

Can Masato gives XX a hard time (same as he gave to Dima) if they should play down the road? They have never played before.

My guess is "No".  What is your opinion?

By the way, to compare ZJK's BH to that of chinese women is a complete disgrace. That is a bit too much of a dumb comment. Give ZJK a lose ball, and he will decapitate you. He loads it up with so much power that it looks scary. And when he has time his backswing flexes his entire body, he compresses and decompresses like a jumping cat. Even on serve receive he manages to put a decent back swing. That's why he has the spinniest serve receive in the world. I remember his match with WLQ at WTTC 2011. His BH was absolutely monstrous, completely demoralizing to opponent. 

To compare ZJK's BH to the chinese girls, really, it means that you don't understand nothing or don't care what you are saying.

There is no doubt here, no speculation. Just two facts. Chinese women are the best (1). I have never seen anyone dispute that. But Chinese women have strokes, that while being effective, are aesthetically hideous. This is just a fact, completely independent from them being good. Where is the video of that girl from Vietnam that we watched recently? Pure beauty. You can't tell me her strokes don't look better than anybody on CNT.

So if I go rob a bank and don't get caught, I didn't cheat right? How about if I poison my opponent? As I already mentioned, there is nothing wrong with cheating, using underhand tactics, illegal serves, stalling, poisoning. However, it's not my cup of tea. 

Totally Improper analogy.

Anyway, I don't label a player questioning a likely edgy shot as a cheater, especially there is no evidence that this player had been involved in similar complains repeatedly.  I'd like to think most players, even very competitive ones, at heart, are fair and decent people.

So if I go rob a bank and don't get caught, I didn't cheat right? How about if I poison my opponent? As I already mentioned, there is nothing wrong with cheating, using underhand tactics, illegal serves, stalling, poisoning. However, it's not my cup of tea.