Not a snake serve by what I understand the definition to be, although I have never actually seen a serve which goes both ways and find it difficult to understand how a ball's angular momentum could change in such a way to make a true snake serve possible. I suspect this serve is what people are facing when they claim to have seen a ball go both ways. The quick action could confuse players into believing the early part of the flight moves in a reverse direction.

 Hope you are not meaning me, I find the reverse pendulum serve hard enough lol

No, there is a "snakeman" - I believe he goes under that name on this forum. I'll try and get him to upload his "snake" shot/serve. 

What exactly is a "figure 8" move? Do you have any ref. video? Thanks.

It works for me more as a last minute directional change when shaping up for a short to the f/hand ( R/Hander) reverse pendulum presenting as a deep to the b/hand fast ball by virtue of a wrist flip just before contact. Its less of a trick and far more useful.

 

Fransisco Mendez had a nice one.  Probably still has, I guess.

 Yes, its very subtle, when I was a kid we called it the Wobbler.

Yes, this what I thought a "snake" serve was - ball travels in an S - path. First time, I saw it, I thought it was impossible from a physics stand point. 

Nice post APW46...it is an illusion of course. This is why I mix it in with the reverse serve. The mind sees the bigger arm movement and expects the reverse line. The smaller wrist action is overlooked and it feels like the ball moves the "wrong" way. The topspin makes the ball kick quickly, giving people little time to work out what actually happened.

Cheers, Brett

Thanks for your condescesion, but I have been around and played some pretty good servers myself. I'm not sure that either you or he have watched the slo-mo replays because my description of what is going on is far more accurate than his, 'past Olympian' or not.

Hi JKC,

I watched Fred play on your channel and like his compact strokes and obvious feeling for the game. I think he uses his wrist really well on his backhand and has a good looking serve there to boot.

As for my snake serve video, I just appreciate the fact that you guys are even talking about it.

Cheers, Brett

Get's me with it every time.

Hi JKC, Fred's serves at 1:21 is actually the type of reverse serve that I do when I play/coach these days. I use the reverse that I did in the video less often. Fred aced you with a snake variation at 1:29 which fits in very nicely with his style of reverse.

I'll tell you what I like a lot btw, although I'm off topic. The style of backhand off-the-bounce he played at 1:40. The mechanics are close to perfect, in my opinion. I will make a backhand video at some stage soon, explaining in my "style" how to learn such a stroke as I feel the backhand is often misunderstood.

Fred's age?

Cheers, Brett

He had had 4 weeks+ off with a wrist injury before we made the following vid (in my sig) which is why he doesn't look so sharp in that one.

It was viewable when it was first posted. Perhaps OP might have changed permissions on it. Might want to send him message to change permissions it.

Hi maddic, the illusion is created by having a small movement inside a larger movement. When you look at the big picture, your mind believes both swings (reverse and snake) should make the ball curve right. But if you were to just focus in on my wrist, you would see the small wrist movement on the snake that makes the ball go left. Try blocking everything out, except for my wrist. 

Using different contact points on the bat helps as well I'm able to make the wrist movement very small by touching the ball on the top and side.

LL Beary is a Polar Bear and eats fish only. Nothing to do with honey!