Samsonov beaten..... by senior citizen??
Printed From: Alex Table Tennis - MyTableTennis.NET
Category: Coaching & Tips
Forum Name: Coaching & Tips
Forum Description: Learn more about TT from the experts. Feel free to share your knowledge & experience.
Moderator: yogi_bear
Assistant Moderators: APW46, smackman
URL: http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=70564
Printed Date: 04/29/2024 at 1:34am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.01 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Samsonov beaten..... by senior citizen??
Posted By: fall_river
Subject: Samsonov beaten..... by senior citizen??
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 9:25am
| http://youtu.be/hvLXcWoz6FY |
Replies:
Posted By: in2spin
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 11:13am
|
isn't this guy the "long pips master" ? :)
|
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 11:13am
===================================== 1. Samsonov must have shown respect of a senior. (Don't tell me that Samsonove can not deal with LP.) 2. Makes no sense for Samsonov to beat Wang Jian Jiang, it doesn't prove anything. 3. It is a demo, not a match. 4. A USATT 2270 player, Li Zhi-Ming, beat Wang Jian Jiang badly (3-0) in a match. Video attached. 5. Li Zhi-Ming is not in the same league as Samsonov. The following video was first posted by our forum member, ZingyDNA, many years ago. (Video still works, just have to wait for 30 seconds.) Update: The following video no longer works. Previously, it had worked for years. http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html" rel="nofollow - http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html
------------- skip3119 |
fall_river wrote:Posted By: JohnnyChop
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 11:44am
|
Samsonov wasn't really playing!!! he is *barely just trying to tap the balls back! Still a fun match tho!!! *stupid auto correct barely became badly!
------------- 729 Battle 2 Yasaka Goibao 5 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Nittaku Fastarc G1 Butterfly Cypress Max |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 11:46am
|
Is Li Zhi-Ming (2270), a LP player, a top player in the US? No. There are a dozen 2500 or 2600 players in the US can handle Li easily. How those 2500 or 2600 players stack up in the World - they are all outside world top 200. Where Samsonov stands in the World? Outside top 200? Give me a break. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 11:52am
| Yeah this old guy (Huang Jian Jiang) is no more than 2300 USATT. If him and Samsonov both play against a USATT 2600 player, you'll see the difference.. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 12:53pm
|
Correction of my earlier post: Update: The following video no longer works. Previously, it had worked for years. (The video where Li Zhi-Ming, 2270, beat Wang Jian Jiang easily.) http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html" rel="nofollow - http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjQ0ODg4NTA0.html ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 1:01pm
I am sure Huang Jian Jiang is above 2300 USATT, then again he will be dq since he uses an illegally lp  ------------- Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX |
Posted By: fall_river
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 1:01pm
| Samsonov can easily beat him if the game continued. A good long pip players are hard to beat in first game at least, need time to adjust to. |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 1:19pm
So what? ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: fall_river
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 1:24pm
| Just sharing |
Posted By: GeneralSpecific
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 2:01pm
It's more than just sharing when you use a misleading click-bait title. ------------- Blade - Xiom 36.5 ALX FL Forehand - Xiom Omega V Asia 2.0mm Backhand - Victas Curl P5V with Der Materialspezialist Firestorm Soft/Outkill 1.8mm sponge |
Posted By: fall_river
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 2:13pm
| The old guy did beat Samsonov that game. I think it was 11-6. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 2:37pm
=================================== I don't think so. Huang Jian Jiang was soundly beaten by Li Zhi-Ming (2270). 0 -- 3. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 2:55pm
|
It certainly is possible for a lower rated long pips player to beat very high rated players.. In 2013, I played against Khai Zheng.. He was 2670 rated or so and I was mid 2100's... He won but I almost took him to 5 games. I won game 2 and was leading 9:7 in game 3.. He ended up winning in 4 games but it was not a walk in the park for him. The problem, he tried to beat me with vigorous topspin attacks which really works in my favor as my entire game is set up to beat topspin attackers. Many playes will slow down their game in order to beat me. Khai Zheng didn't and that's why it was more difficult for him than for other players of his level. I've beaten players as high as 2478 rated in tournaments.. It is not impossible to have a huge upset if the matchup works in favor of the long pips player.. Zhi-Ming Li actually beat Casba Bence when Casba Bence was rated well into the 2600's.. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: Sportsfanatic1
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 3:54pm
| Samsonov is using a walmart paddle |
Posted By: fall_river
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 4:22pm
| Just watched the video, Li won with score 3-2. |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 4:26pm
=========================================== Which video? For Li Zhi-Ming vs Huang Jian Jiang, it was 3-0. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: kolevtt
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 4:51pm
|
People sometimes posted fun videos for serious topic discussions... I have a serious question for the topic owner: How many $$$ the old man offered Samsonov to loss this match? |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 5:10pm
|
I wrote about this a bit back: http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=283742#p283742 In short, people who think he's <2300 have no clue how LP works, and probably not much better for TT in general. > For Li Zhi-Ming vs Huang Jian Jiang, it was 3-0. I can't see how this is any more serious than the Samsonov one given WJJ is similarly dressed in a fricking sweater. Counting skills are also suspect given WJJ wins at least two sets. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 5:36pm
==================================== (Li Zhi-Ming vs Huang Jian Jiang) If one can read Chinese, one knows that was not a demo or for fun game, it was the first LP tournament held in the province of Shanxi Province (陕西). Update: I wouldn't throw out comment on any match that I have never watched. As far as the match that I have given link, I watched many times. Besides, many folks here have watched that match also. WJJ tried hard to win: Changed his strategy, not working. Then tried using inverted, not working. Switched back to LP again, and didn't work out either. Anyway, the argument is getting to non-sense. In China WJJ is known as the LP master. He also has a video lesson on how to play against LP, but when he faced one, WJJ just didn't know what to do. Did you watch that match carefully? AgentHEX, you will run into someone keeps arguing with you, but I am not interested. I am getting out of this thread. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 5:50pm
|
It's pretty evident from other videos of him that WJJ does not play (or even practice) in a sweater and pants, that he didn't even bother to take off for this one. Did you even watch the video you linked? I skipped through it pretty quick and the score went to 11 on the WJJ's side of the table at least twice. That means he won at least two games, not zero. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 6:45pm
|
>Update: I wouldn't throw out comment on any match that I have never watched. As far as the match that I have given link, I watched many times. Besides, many folks here have watched that match also. Well, everyone who watch for themselves can assess the relevant counting skills here. > Then tried using inverted, not working. WJJ also doesn't use inverted, btw. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 6:50pm
I am not trying to diminish your achievement. But most times when advanced players see push blockers as competent as you, they will try to hit through you just to see if they can do it. To them, slowing the game etc is just too boring and proves nothing. Timing the ball and getting into position for a drive is much more challenging and in the end, more fun and a learning experience. I have seen it many times. Many times the PB wins. It depends on the circumstances. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 7:10pm
|
If someone doesn't play against LPs at their own level regularly they can be at a significant disadvantage. But a better player is more likely to figure out something that works and then win with it. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: fall_river
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 7:38pm
| This is the beauty of our sport. Old folks with unique skills give pros troubles or 8 years old girls or 80 years old men beat "muscular" guys. A good lp player has real skill just as a inverted rubber player who can blast ball at super high speed. |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 8:56pm
I think that players in tournaments play to win and won't risk to lose a game or match, trying to prove that they can win a certain way.. practice is a different story. ------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 9:13pm
I think there are many players for whatever reason use tournament matches as practice matches. |
Posted By: Pushblocker
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 9:17pm
------------- 2010 Florida State Champion Dr. Neubauer Firewall Plus Blade with DHS G666 1.5mm on forehand Giant Dragon Talon National Team OX on backhand |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 9:21pm
|
Sometimes to learn something effectively you need to do it in the proper environment X number of times. Playing only to win can delay what can be necessary to improve. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 9:36pm
Right on agentHEX. If I can gain more by practicing something in a match than by focusing on only winning, I will go with the practice if the match is not critical to my advancing. |
Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 9:59pm
| Oh sure, people sacrifice their weekend, spending hundreds of dollars, if not thousands, if tournament is cross state, to do some practice match all the time, any where... Tournament is certainly not the place for them to test themselves. LOL. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 03/03/2015 at 11:48pm
Everyone has a reason for playing. Some need the rating points, others want the trophies or money. I play to improve my game. I don't care if it's at the club or a tournament. In reality almost all of my club matches are practice matches and at tournaments almost all of my matches are played to win. At last years U.S. Nationals I played a match against a higher rated guy with a style that I had never seen. Since I couldn't advance out of my round robin I treated it as a practice match and tried different things. I lost the match, but learned a little about his style. I felt it was a good match. Because I don't feel the pressure to win, I enjoy all my matches and tournaments. |
Posted By: kakapo
Date Posted: 03/04/2015 at 1:05am
|
Each time I go back to China, I play with this kind of players in the building where my family in law lives. Old guys who sometimes have never played in competition but they play 2 hours a day for many many years. They are nearly all hitters and with pen hold grip + LP, they should never be underestimated. Of course, samsonov played tourist in that video ------------- Def play grey grip 94gr, Venus 2 blue 2,2, Neubauer KO extreme 1,3mm |
Posted By: *_strataras_*
Date Posted: 03/04/2015 at 1:51am
|
Ofc it was a match just for fun , something like exhibition.Nothing to believe that Samsonov wanted to win and he lost finally! ------------- OSP Virtuoso SQST Tenergy 05(black 1,9mm FH) Tenergy 05(red 1,9mm BH) http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74157&title=feedback-strataras" rel="nofollow - Feedback |
Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 03/04/2015 at 7:28am
Im sure Huang Jian Jiang could beat many 2400 players, he has a dangerouse style that effects some loopers timing but overall he is a old mall player wearing warm clothing and having fun ------------- Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/04/2015 at 4:00pm
|
>
Im sure Huang Jian Jiang could beat many 2400 players In the longer vid from my link above the commentator mentions he's competitive with provincial and lower-level national players. This guy used to play amateur circuit in Beijing with plenty of high level amateur and ex-prov competition and won tournaments. In the same video he clowns one ex-prov player and get beat by another (Ma Lin like guy who basically won on 3rd/4th ball). These are not anywhere near 2300 players. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: ZingyDNA
Date Posted: 03/04/2015 at 4:48pm
I think the average provincial player in China is "only" about 2600 USATT. Very few above 2700. Some weaker provinces may not even have 2600+ players. Just look at the imports in the US. So a retired provincial player may very well be 2300 or below, depending on how long they have been out of full time practice. |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/04/2015 at 5:04pm
|
These aren't fully retired guys given their age and the fact they still play the tournament scene. You can judge the quality of their play (footwork, short game, strokes) from the link above with the usual disclaimer expert LP game makes opponents look bad. There are other WJJ vids on the web against guys who appear to be system-trained. The guy mentioned who managed to beat WJJ is significantly above 2500 and does well against that style. He was the last player in a WJJ vs "high-level" invitational and WJJ was also visibly tired at that point. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 2:17pm
|
AgentHEX said: Did
you even watch the video. AgentHEX has no idea how that video even got into this forum. I’ll fill you in. When ZingyDNA mentioned that he remembered he saw a video that WJJ was beaten by Li Zhi-Ming, I was the one who requested ZingyDNA to find it. He kindly found and posted it. It is ridiculous to even doubt whether I watched that video. (Btw, I watched several times.) AgentHEX has no idea as to how important that tourney is because he can not read Chinese. It was a special event dedicated to all LP players nation-wide. WJJ teaches how to play with LP, holding many LP training camps and has many LP training videos on the web and is known as the LP master in China – he couldn’t afford to lose, as it would affect his reputation and business. AgentHEX has absolutely no idea as to how important of that tourney is to WJJ. It is ridiculous for him to think that WJJ was taking it lightly as Samsonov in a demo. AgentHEX
said: “I wouldn't throw out comment on any match that I have never
watched.” (Refers about me.) I was the one who asked ZingyDNA to
find that video, how could I didn’t even watch it. This forum has this subject topics about this long time ago, it was so long ago my memory failed me -
I made a mistake and said it was 3-0. The
actual result was 3-2 after replaying the said video. Earlier link didn’t work, but this one does. WJJ vs Li Zhi-Ming (usatt 2270):
11-5, 8-11, 12-10,
2-11, 3-11 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PELuZGUvEnk" rel="nofollow - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PELuZGUvEnk ====================================== Self-criticism: This forum discussed WJJ, and has a video of the said match – I just remembered that Li Zhi-Ming won handily and said it was 3-0. That’s my error, actually it was 3-2. (I learned a lesson here, next time I will check the facts first rather than just depend on memory only). AgentHEX failed to appreciate how important that nation-wide LP Tourney held in Shanxi Province was to WJJ – affecting his business and his prestige (he teaches how to play with LP, holds LP training camps, has many LP video lessons on the web), and thus ridiculously equate Samsonov’s playing in the demo to WJJ’s in a real tournament. (About WJJ’s dress during play, you definitely have not watched many WJJ’s videos, he is old and thus has slow metabolism, that’s the dress he normally wears to play.) AgentHEX just over-glorified LP’s effectiveness. More likely than not that I have watched more LP matches than AgentHEX. I actually play with LP for a number of years, and did win a couple of matches over opponents rated 300 points above me. (I learned from this forum that when a player gets old, and can not move fast, may be its time to try LP). But LP has its limits, when a USATT 2600+ player who will have no problems with LP, much less for Samsonov. As to AgentHEX opinion that any one thinks WJJ is less than 2300 is clueless. You know what? People can also say that anyone thinks WJJ worth more than 2300 is just as clueless, if not more. (It is just personal opinion, one side can never say that the other side is clueless. We just have to respect that people have different opinions.) Clueless folks saying other folks are clueless is not an uncommon event here. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 5:02pm
|
Apparently you watched that video so carefully it became a 3-0 beating in your mind, plus those thick street cloth same as Samsonov in the OP vid must've disappeared, too, and it became a serious match. > About WJJ’s dress during play, you definitely have not watched many WJJ’s videos, he is old and thus has slow metabolism, that’s the dress he normally wears to play.) There's several related videos in your own Youku link, plus those from mine, plus dozens demonstrating his usual dress for matches here: http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_%E9%BB%84%E5%BB%BA%E7%96%86" rel="nofollow - http://www.soku.com/search_video/q_%E9%BB%84%E5%BB%BA%E7%96%86 . So anyone interested can very simply determine for themselves if any of these claims you're making are true. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 5:12pm
|
Yes, that's his usual dress when playing. He didn't dress any different when playing Li Zhi-Ming. I admitted that I made a mistake that I did not check the score before I posted. But you failed to admit that that match was important to WJJ because it was a nation-wide LP tourney - it would affect his business and reputation. Then you kept nailing someone's mistake after someone has already admitted his error. What a guy. I should have taken someone's recommendation to ignore such a person. It is in your gene, no one can help you. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 5:19pm
|
Sure, just like whether that match was 3-0 this is a matter of fact easily determined by the most casual glance at the videos linked. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: skip3119
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 5:28pm
============================= I admitted my error, but you didn't. One of these days you will meet your opponent and keep on insulting one another - hope you will have a good time. Good bye. ------------- skip3119 |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 6:03pm
|
He plays in street cloths in all of one other video out of dozens and a similarly casual match at that. But I guess it's not an error in your mind if you can't even be bothered with the most basic verification for all these claims. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: AgentHEX
Date Posted: 03/06/2015 at 9:10pm
|
I notice you've edited some of the comments above. If anyone is serious about ascertaining WJJ's USATT rating, start with comparing opponents in pushblocker's video who're about 2200 or so to guys WJJ easily beats in the numerous matches online and see if they're anywhere near the same level. I can't see how anyone who's ever watched higher level TT can claim this guy is <2300. ------------- Science; upsetting the indignant since http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_affair#Inquisition_and_first_judgement.2C_1616" rel="nofollow - 1616 . |
Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 03/07/2015 at 3:40am
Not true. Players that love the sport and the social interaction do anything they want. Tournaments are not life and death. They are simply a part of enjoying the sport. ------------- Blade: Darker Speed90 Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg Delusion is an asset |