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Anyone Using ALL Class?

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Topic: Anyone Using ALL Class?
Posted By: frogger
Subject: Anyone Using ALL Class?
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 1:01pm

The ALL class is usually associated with safe play or is a good choice for beginners. As anyone used this class of blade with Tenergy's or glue effect rubbers in tournament play?

I have a collector series Stiga Allround wood I have been guarding for years in it's box. I did hear these blades were made from old growth tree woods so would have some value.

I could expect very high spin but what does everyone think about speed if paired with T05 or T80? I'm thinking medium fast for close table or more defense away from table...Am I spot on or not?

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.





Replies:
Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 1:23pm
I know a number of very good players do use very soft blades with tenergy.  Mitch Seidenfeld told me a few years ago he was having trouble finding a blade soft enough to replace (or even back up) his old banda.

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Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

I know a number of very good players do use very soft blades with tenergy.  Mitch Seidenfeld told me a few years ago he was having trouble finding a blade soft enough to replace (or even back up) his old banda.


The Yasaka Swede Classic is the softest, dwelly blade I have ever used in competition years ago. So much hang time I could go out for lunch.

I played Mitch years ago, and his shots were fast.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 1:47pm
I use an ALL/ALL+ blade and no one has noticed or commented since I switched.

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 1:52pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I use an ALL/ALL+ blade and no one has noticed or commented since I switched.


Impressive!

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:14pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I use an ALL/ALL+ blade and no one has noticed or commented since I switched.
But is it still faster than your last combo, with 7-ply all wood, and much slower rubber?
 


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:23pm
Originally posted by mhnh007 mhnh007 wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

I use an ALL/ALL+ blade and no one has noticed or commented since I switched.
But is it still faster than your last combo, with 7-ply all wood, and much slower rubber?
 

Good question.  Not sure on relative speeds, but I used the current rubber with faster blade and even played tournament with that setup before switching.  

I first posted on MX-S a few weeks ago and I stopped using Big Dipper about the same time - I went through stages and I used the current rubber with a couple of the same 7-ply all wood (and even a faster one) for a while and played a few tournament and league matches with MX-S and the 7ply, and then silently switched to the 5 ply ALL/ALL+.  Again, no one has commented on switching blade from OFF-/OFF to ALL/ALL+, even the people who hit with me regularly.  But the day I did it, I knew I had made the right decision.  Everytime I want to remain focused, I just remind myself of what Danny Seemiller is using.


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:50pm
I use the Grubba All - even slower than my old Andrei Grubba Pro.
 Great feeling, spin and touch.  I'll leave the speed to the young guys.
 I figure if I can't move fast and hit rockets anymore play with a slower blade 
using heavy spin and control to try to win.


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DS


Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:53pm
Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

I use the Grubba All - even slower than my old Andrei Grubba Pro.
 Great feeling, spin and touch.  I'll leave the speed to the young guys.
 I figure if I can't move fast and hit rockets anymore play with a slower blade 
using heavy spin and control to try to win.

Does the slower blade enhance the 'funny' effects of your anti ?


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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:55pm
No. But the slow wood makes it easy to  block underspin loops

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DS


Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:57pm
Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

No. But the slow wood makes it easy to  block underspin loops

Can I see a video of that ?


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Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)

林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 3:58pm
Underspin loops?


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Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 4:18pm
Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

I use the Grubba All - even slower than my old Andrei Grubba Pro.
 Great feeling, spin and touch.  I'll leave the speed to the young guys.
 I figure if I can't move fast and hit rockets anymore play with a slower blade 
using heavy spin and control to try to win.


Thanks Dan, I agree with you 100%. With my hands like a laser and legs like a sloth ya let's leave the speed to the youngsters.   

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 4:19pm
Guys, he obviously means opponent's loops of his pushes.[;-)]

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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 4:19pm
 I meant blocking loops made off of underspin pushes or chops.

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DS


Posted By: Tinykin
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 4:22pm
I seee, sorry.



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Blade:
Darker Speed90
Rubber Fh and Bh DHS Hurricane 3, 39/38deg

Delusion is an asset


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 4:24pm
Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

I use the Grubba All - even slower than my old Andrei Grubba Pro.
 Great feeling, spin and touch.  I'll leave the speed to the young guys.
 I figure if I can't move fast and hit rockets anymore play with a slower blade 
using heavy spin and control to try to win.

Interesting you write this because Butterfly rates the Grubba Pro as ALL- and the Grubba as ALL+.


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 4:36pm
Some ALL blade inspiration - best of 3...  that first loop Danny hit was the slowest loop anyone has ever hit by me before...



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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: berkeleydoctor
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 7:12pm
@3:22, was dan's serve top side or just side?


Posted By: Clarence247
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 7:54pm
I can confirm that OSP Expert with T05 FH , T05fx BH makes quite a nice combination... A friend of mine plays with it and I got to borrow his bat for a day during a training camp... 5.5 hrs training, 2 hrs multiball, 2hrs excersises , 1.5 hrs matches.... it performed well under all conditions and I did not really feel a lack of speed or power... it was well controlled but still gave good attacking chances....

I read somewhere that you wanted to slow down your game a bit.... if so, this is the way to go... a slower blade, but still powerful rubbers (for great spin and enough spin)...

I personally like my Adidas P7 better than Tenergy, but I like Tenergy to and could play with it anytime and feel comfortable...  

Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:


The ALL class is usually associated with safe play or is a good choice for beginners. As anyone used this class of blade with Tenergy's or glue effect rubbers in tournament play?

I have a collector series Stiga Allround wood I have been guarding for years in it's box. I did hear these blades were made from old growth tree woods so would have some value.

I could expect very high spin but what does everyone think about speed if paired with T05 or T80? I'm thinking medium fast for close table or more defense away from table...Am I spot on or not?


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OSP Virtuoso (Off-)
MX-P (Max)
Mantra M (Max)

Backup:
Yasaka Extra Offensive,
Nittaku H3 Prov
729-802 SP


Posted By: Matt Pimple
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 7:57pm
I also play with an ALL Class blade, the Dr. Neubauer Hercules, though I believe it is more like All+. I used to play with faster blades in the past like Stiga Intensity Carbon (OFF+) and TSP Black Blizzard (OFF; similar to Viscaria Light) but a slower blade gives me much better control and consistency. I believe that an ALL blade with T05 or H3N (boosted) is fast enough for close to the table play. It's probably more a matter of technique than blade speed.

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OSP Ultimate; Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard max, Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=55835&title=feed-back-for-matt-pimple" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: smackman
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 8:43pm
my blade plays with me because Im all class

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Ulmo Duality,Donic BlueGrip C2 red max ,Yinhe Super Kim Ox Black
NZ table tennis selector, third in the World (plate Doubles)I'm Listed on the ITTF website


Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 05/20/2015 at 10:34pm
On another note, the ALL+blade  that Jim Butler has been using, Juic SB Alpha seems to not be commercially available any more. Is this really so, or just Paddle Palace does not have it at the moment?

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(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 6:15am
Topspin

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DS


Posted By: viva
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 6:59am
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

On another note, the ALL+blade  that Jim Butler has been using, Juic SB Alpha seems to not be commercially available any more. Is this really so, or just Paddle Palace does not have it at the moment?


was available at tt11


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My trade feedback here:
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40170&title=viva-buy-sell-feedback


Posted By: V-Griper
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 9:09am
After using DHS 656 for over a year I decided that a slower blade was in order to enhance my sensory feedback so I recently switched to a YE JTTAA paired with BD on both sides. It is much better overall especially on my BH which I have been struggling with in terms of spin. Every blade change I have made so for has been to a softer blade and has resulted in overall improvements in my game. One interesting thing is that my blade is 1/4 inch longer than all my other C-pen blades, Even an older regular extra. Good thing for my rpb BH. 

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DHS 301
Xiom Vega 7pro FH/BH


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 11:34am
Originally posted by V-Griper V-Griper wrote:

After using DHS 656 for over a year I decided that a slower blade was in order to enhance my sensory feedback so I recently switched to a YE JTTAA paired with BD on both sides. It is much better overall especially on my BH which I have been struggling with in terms of spin. Every blade change I have made so for has been to a softer blade and has resulted in overall improvements in my game. One interesting thing is that my blade is 1/4 inch longer than all my other C-pen blades, Even an older regular extra. Good thing for my rpb BH. 

Interesting you put it that way.  If you wanted mostly sensory feedback, just a blade would mostly softer woods like hinoki or limba would likely have sufficed even retaining a thick blade.  Thaqt said, Yasaka Extra is a great blade in any shape or form.

BTW, with the bold part,  you sound like bluebucket...


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 12:22pm
Originally posted by JacekGM JacekGM wrote:

On another note, the ALL+blade  that Jim Butler has been using, Juic SB Alpha seems to not be commercially available any more. Is this really so, or just Paddle Palace does not have it at the moment?


The Juic SB Alpha was rated ALL+ by the manufacturer however it was faster than that blade rating, more like OFF. I had two of them and forgot to seal the first one and it splintered very badly.

I found my old Yasaka Sweden Classic with huge ST. grip and will try T05 on it. That blade is rated ALL+ but the huge dwell makes it feel like ALL. The new ones are now made in Japan not Sweden. Great control blade.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 4:06pm
I use an old Stiga Allround made in the 70s, with Tenergy 80 on the BH and a hard sponge tensor on the FH.

It gives me great feel and, to date, noone has yet complained that the ball is not going fast enough when I loop.

I started out using fast carbon blades, but over the years kept on going slower.  I like the old Stiga's enough to have acquired about half-dozen of them over the course of the last two years, so that I do not have to start a new blade search if the one I use breaks.  

So far, one of my blades cracked in the neck and had to be taken out of commission.  The one I transitioned to is holding up just fine.  I figure if these blades last me no less than five years each, I am set for a while.

ILya


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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 7:30pm

I still have my Stiga Johansson from 1972. It's in good condition but pretty slow and fragile so I keep it safe in a case. Those were pretty much hand made so I think it has some value.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: koshkin
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 7:42pm
I am sure you can sell it for quite a bit.

I like the feel of these old blades, but as I kept trying different blades I realized how much difference the grip makes for me.  With some adjustment period, I can play with almost any blade.  The speed and weight do not seem to matter too much too me within reasonable limits.  I am a looper so I tend to prefer somewhat head-heavy blades that are a bit on the heavy side, but I have been able to adjust to quite a few different designs with no issue.  However, that Bengtsson handle (early straight/square handle that is a bit short) makes all the difference in the world to me.

It fits my hand and provides incredible amount of feedback.  The same blade with a different handle does not feel nearly as good and I gave it a shot for a almost three months once trying to get used to it.

I am sure it is something about the way my hand is shaped, but it makes a huge difference to me.

ILya


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BTY Mazunov ST
Dignics 05


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 9:24pm

Thanks for all the great feedback. T05 is great on medium speed blades. I cannot tell any difference in speed close/mid from my TBS, Viscaria or Power Carbon. The ball feel is vastly improved.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 10:39pm
I am currently using Avalox BT550 (ALL+).   It is slow in low gear and quite fast in high gear (due to catapult effect).   I am using Rapid Xpress and Sriver (both regular un-boosted rubbers).  I don't hear any negative comments from my friends who use OFF+ composite blades + tensor rubbers.  Spin and power produced are still plenty.

And I used to have 72 blades including the highly regarded TBS and MMaze, etc.  Rutis, Samsonov PW and composite, etc.   And I think I like ALL+ / OFF- blades better.

So, don't be ashamed using ALL+ blade.  We don't have to follow anybody.  Use what you feel best for you.

Luckily my EJ fever is forever cured.



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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/21/2015 at 11:14pm

With more dwell the spin is insane. I don't normally slow loop but when I do my opponent better have the exact racket angle or he loses. Yes nothing wrong using classic rubbers if it helps your game.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: HowToPlayChineseLoop
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 5:40am
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

I am sure you can sell it for quite a bit.

I like the feel of these old blades, but as I kept trying different blades I realized how much difference the grip makes for me.  With some adjustment period, I can play with almost any blade.  The speed and weight do not seem to matter too much too me within reasonable limits.  I am a looper so I tend to prefer somewhat head-heavy blades that are a bit on the heavy side, but I have been able to adjust to quite a few different designs with no issue.  However, that Bengtsson handle (early straight/square handle that is a bit short) makes all the difference in the world to me.

It fits my hand and provides incredible amount of feedback.  The same blade with a different handle does not feel nearly as good and I gave it a shot for a almost three months once trying to get used to it.

I am sure it is something about the way my hand is shaped, but it makes a huge difference to me.

ILya

thank you sir. I have the same feel about Bengtsson handle.
Do you have a dimension of Bengtsson handle?


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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53935" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: HowToPlayChineseLoop
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 5:44am
the CNT team use always 7-ply blades.
It's OFF to OFF+. Do you know someone in CNT or Provincial Team use ALL+?


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http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=53935" rel="nofollow - My Feedback


Posted By: Ray
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 7:08am
Last year I was eager to buy Victas Dynawood, declared as ALL+ blade. However, when launched it became probably the most expensive ALL+ blade on the market immediately. No wonder no one's been mentioning it still.

I have Stiga Allround NCT, medium soft, medium flex but hollow feel (for me, at least).

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Life is too short for defensive play.

https://twitter.com/spinnier_com" rel="nofollow - https://twitter.com/spinnier_com
https://fb.me/spinnier" rel="nofollow - fb.me/spinnier


Posted By: doraemon
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 11:16am
Originally posted by HowToPlayChineseLoop HowToPlayChineseLoop wrote:

the CNT team use always 7-ply blades.
It's OFF to OFF+. Do you know someone in CNT or Provincial Team use ALL+?


No, I don't think so.

But, are you or are we as good as those CNT players, so that we should use the same blade as they do?

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Blade : Just wood
FH : black rubber
BH : red rubber


Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 11:49am
Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Originally posted by HowToPlayChineseLoop HowToPlayChineseLoop wrote:

the CNT team use always 7-ply blades.
It's OFF to OFF+. Do you know someone in CNT or Provincial Team use ALL+?


No, I don't think so.

But, are you or are we as good as those CNT players, so that we should use the same blade as they do?


if we not as good as CNT players it doesn't mean we can't use there blades


Posted By: jrscatman
Date Posted: 05/22/2015 at 11:52am
Originally posted by piligrim piligrim wrote:

Originally posted by doraemon doraemon wrote:

Originally posted by HowToPlayChineseLoop HowToPlayChineseLoop wrote:

the CNT team use always 7-ply blades.
It's OFF to OFF+. Do you know someone in CNT or Provincial Team use ALL+?


No, I don't think so.

But, are you or are we as good as those CNT players, so that we should use the same blade as they do?


if we not as good as CNT players it doesn't mean we can't use there blades
Yes, very true we can play badly using expensive, exclusive blades or crappy blades. I guess in the first case we can lose with style.


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Butterfly MPS
FH: Donic Acuda S1
BH: Palio CK531A OX


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 12:38pm
I'm curious, of the All blades mentioned in this thread, do any of them not have a hollow feeling? My elbow is sensitive to certain frequencies produced by ball contact with a hollow feeling blade.

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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 12:44pm
Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

I'm curious, of the All blades mentioned in this thread, do any of them not have a hollow feeling? My elbow is sensitive to certain frequencies produced by ball contact with a hollow feeling blade.

I personally use hard thick rubbers to control that, but others may have a different view.  I like to feel the ball somewhat as a tool for adjusting my stroke, so the feedback for me is usually positive.

Usually, these blades don't have the hollow handle problem common in many blades.  What blades have you tried?


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https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Egghead
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 12:47pm
I love my YE blade Heart

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Aurora ST: Rhyzm / Talent OX


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 1:03pm
I tried a Stiga Allround classic carbon. Although I could play fine with it after a little while, it lacked too much put away power. Allround  blades are definitely not for lazy players with more passive strokes.


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

I'm curious, of the All blades mentioned in this thread, do any of them not have a hollow feeling? My elbow is sensitive to certain frequencies produced by ball contact with a hollow feeling blade.

I personally use hard thick rubbers to control that, but others may have a different view.  I like to feel the ball somewhat as a tool for adjusting my stroke, so the feedback for me is usually positive.

Usually, these blades don't have the hollow handle problem common in many blades.  What blades have you tried?

I typically use thicker offensive rubbers also, so we may like something similar as far as blades go.
 

Over the past 6 years I've used Yinhe V13, DHS PG7, Xiom Zetro Quad and Korbel (Japan). As far as Allround blades, I've given the Tboll All+ and an Andro Kinetic All rated blade a try. Both seemed to have a popsicle stick feeling, though the Andro was more bearable. I've used my wife's Stiga OC and love its playing characteristics, but when I remove my rubber from it to glue her's back on, the top ply splinters so badly. I can see the second ply right where the sweet spot used to be. 

I need something that loops as well as the Korbel, but will slow down the pace on my loop drive to keep it from going long. I've tried not swinging as hard on the drive, but the ball will dive into the net nearly every time. 



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Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 1:47pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I tried a Stiga Allround classic carbon. Although I could play fine with it after a little while, it lacked too much put away power. Allround  blades are definitely not for lazy players with more passive strokes.


" It lacked to much put away Power"? Interesting observation. I have zero issues with "put away power" with this class. I have always had excellent stroke speed regardless of blade class except strickly DEF class blades, as those are a bit slow.



Rubber selection can make a huge difference on ALL class blades.

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Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 1:51pm
Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

I'm curious, of the All blades mentioned in this thread, do any of them not have a hollow feeling? My elbow is sensitive to certain frequencies produced by ball contact with a hollow feeling blade.

I personally use hard thick rubbers to control that, but others may have a different view.  I like to feel the ball somewhat as a tool for adjusting my stroke, so the feedback for me is usually positive.

Usually, these blades don't have the hollow handle problem common in many blades.  What blades have you tried?

I typically use thicker offensive rubbers also, so we may like something similar as far as blades go.
 

Over the past 6 years I've used Yinhe V13, DHS PG7, Xiom Zetro Quad and Korbel (Japan). As far as Allround blades, I've given the Tboll All+ and an Andro Kinetic All rated blade a try. Both seemed to have a popsicle stick feeling, though the Andro was more bearable. I've used my wife's Stiga OC and love its playing characteristics, but when I remove my rubber from it to glue her's back on, the top ply splinters so badly. I can see the second ply right where the sweet spot used to be. 

I need something that loops as well as the Korbel, but will slow down the pace on my loop drive to keep it from going long. I've tried not swinging as hard on the drive, but the ball will dive into the net nearly every time. 


I think the key would be getting a heavy ALL blade, something as heavy as possible, especially the ones without hollow handles.  Have you tried a Yasaka Extra?  Or a regular Appelgren Allplay (not the horrible senso ones)?


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 6:10pm
Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

I'm curious, of the All blades mentioned in this thread, do any of them not have a hollow feeling? My elbow is sensitive to certain frequencies produced by ball contact with a hollow feeling blade.

I personally use hard thick rubbers to control that, but others may have a different view.  I like to feel the ball somewhat as a tool for adjusting my stroke, so the feedback for me is usually positive.

Usually, these blades don't have the hollow handle problem common in many blades.  What blades have you tried?

I typically use thicker offensive rubbers also, so we may like something similar as far as blades go.
 

Over the past 6 years I've used Yinhe V13, DHS PG7, Xiom Zetro Quad and Korbel (Japan). As far as Allround blades, I've given the Tboll All+ and an Andro Kinetic All rated blade a try. Both seemed to have a popsicle stick feeling, though the Andro was more bearable. I've used my wife's Stiga OC and love its playing characteristics, but when I remove my rubber from it to glue her's back on, the top ply splinters so badly. I can see the second ply right where the sweet spot used to be. 

I need something that loops as well as the Korbel, but will slow down the pace on my loop drive to keep it from going long. I've tried not swinging as hard on the drive, but the ball will dive into the net nearly every time. 


You may be disappointed in your results going to a slower blade.  This will allow the incoming spin to take more and force you to come forward through the ball even more.

Using a faster blade will minimize dwell and help you ping through those balls at the top of the bounce.

If you're letting the ball drop and spinning it back up, you'll probably like the slower blade more. I guess I'm not completely sure what you're trying to do.


-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 8:08pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by MindTrip MindTrip wrote:

I'm curious, of the All blades mentioned in this thread, do any of them not have a hollow feeling? My elbow is sensitive to certain frequencies produced by ball contact with a hollow feeling blade.

I personally use hard thick rubbers to control that, but others may have a different view.  I like to feel the ball somewhat as a tool for adjusting my stroke, so the feedback for me is usually positive.

Usually, these blades don't have the hollow handle problem common in many blades.  What blades have you tried?

I typically use thicker offensive rubbers also, so we may like something similar as far as blades go.
 

Over the past 6 years I've used Yinhe V13, DHS PG7, Xiom Zetro Quad and Korbel (Japan). As far as Allround blades, I've given the Tboll All+ and an Andro Kinetic All rated blade a try. Both seemed to have a popsicle stick feeling, though the Andro was more bearable. I've used my wife's Stiga OC and love its playing characteristics, but when I remove my rubber from it to glue her's back on, the top ply splinters so badly. I can see the second ply right where the sweet spot used to be. 

I need something that loops as well as the Korbel, but will slow down the pace on my loop drive to keep it from going long. I've tried not swinging as hard on the drive, but the ball will dive into the net nearly every time. 


You may be disappointed in your results going to a slower blade.  This will allow the incoming spin to take more and force you to come forward through the ball even more.

Using a faster blade will minimize dwell and help you ping through those balls at the top of the bounce.

If you're letting the ball drop and spinning it back up, you'll probably like the slower blade more. I guess I'm not completely sure what you're trying to do.

Cole- That is exactly what I do, take the ball below the table and spin it up. I know it's not the right way, but it seems thats the only way I can keep the ball spinning and low over the net.


-------------
Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/23/2015 at 10:15pm
Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I tried a Stiga Allround classic carbon. Although I could play fine with it after a little while, it lacked too much put away power. Allround  blades are definitely not for lazy players with more passive strokes.


" It lacked to much put away Power"? Interesting observation. I have zero issues with "put away power" with this class. I have always had excellent stroke speed regardless of blade class except strickly DEF class blades, as those are a bit slow.



Rubber selection can make a huge difference on ALL class blades.


Skyline plays at a higher level than we do. He isn't wrong either. The point of an ALL blade is control, not power.

-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 7:38am
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by frogger frogger wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

I tried a Stiga Allround classic carbon. Although I could play fine with it after a little while, it lacked too much put away power. Allround  blades are definitely not for lazy players with more passive strokes.


" It lacked to much put away Power"? Interesting observation. I have zero issues with "put away power" with this class. I have always had excellent stroke speed regardless of blade class except strickly DEF class blades, as those are a bit slow.



Rubber selection can make a huge difference on ALL class blades.


Skyline plays at a higher level than we do. He isn't wrong either. The point of an ALL blade is control, not power.

I definitely agree that rubber selection makes a huge difference on allround blades. Because when I said I had a lack of put away power I was using Airoc Soft on my allround classic carbon. It was boosted but still, soft rubber on a slow relatively flexible blade might not be ideal. But even when I changed the Airoc Soft to Tenergy 25 I still had problems. When playing with allround blades you have to generate a lot of your own power if you want speed, and thats not something that I am good at. I'm rather lazy and I like to borrow power from the opponent.

I'm curious about one comment of mister danseemiller though. Why do you think is it easier to block spinny opening loops with allround blades?


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 9:16am
Because they are slower.

-------------
DS


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 10:35am
Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

Because they are slower.

So you are you saying because Allround blades are slower you have more control over the incoming topspin?






Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 10:44am
I think he's saying it's more difficult to deal with pace than spin.

-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 10:56am
Slower blade means more time for you to do something reasonable with the ball...

-------------
(1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH.


Posted By: danseemiller
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 11:16am
YES.   Speed or spin.

-------------
DS


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 1:05pm
Well, you don't have to sell me.  I use a w6 with illumina 1.9/1.7.  A very reasonable setup.

Sometimes I wish I had a little more solid feel to the blade when I'm trying to hit through a topspin.  Probably just means I need to put more positive into it.


-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: NextLevel
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 3:29pm
Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Well, you don't have to sell me.  I use a w6 with illumina 1.9/1.7.  A very reasonable setup.

Sometimes I wish I had a little more solid feel to the blade when I'm trying to hit through a topspin.  Probably just means I need to put more positive into it.

Why are you trying to hit through a topspin?  Not enough sponge to re-loop it?


-------------
https://youtu.be/jhO4K_yFhh8?t=115" rel="nofollow - I like putting heavy topspin on the ball...
Cybershape Carbon
FH/BH: H3P 41D.
Lumberjack TT, not for lovers of beautiful strokes. No time to train...


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 3:34pm
Originally posted by NextLevel NextLevel wrote:

Originally posted by cole_ely cole_ely wrote:

Well, you don't have to sell me.  I use a w6 with illumina 1.9/1.7.  A very reasonable setup.

Sometimes I wish I had a little more solid feel to the blade when I'm trying to hit through a topspin.  Probably just means I need to put more positive into it.

Why are you trying to hit through a topspin?  Not enough sponge to re-loop it?

I see where Cole is coming from. I hit through the slow/spinny topspins all the time. Seems to be the easy way to end a point if I am in position. Otherwise, I'd resort to relooping.


-------------
Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: cole_ely
Date Posted: 05/25/2015 at 3:52pm
I find that it works better for my back if I try to jump on the topspins at the top of the bounce and hit them.  Yes, there's some topspin, but I'm trying to drive the ball...smash it really.  The more oomph is on the incoming topspin, the more you have to come through it aggressively.  due to some back issues I quit letting the ball drop if I can avoid it.  

-------------
Wavestone St with Illumina 1.9r, defender1.7b

Please let me know if I can be of assistance.


Posted By: mhnh007
Date Posted: 05/26/2015 at 9:04am
At a low level, the opening loop is usually not hard, and specially not deep enough, the percentage to smack it for a win is actually quite high and preferable.  But of course there are always many ways to skin a cat Smile.


Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 05/27/2015 at 12:41pm

The most spin I have ever generated was with Yasaka Sweden Classic + T05FX 2.1. Crazy spin on opening BH loops. Speed is still good. Believe me I have tried a zillion setups and that one is the best for generating awesome spin. Blocking that level of spin either takes anti/long pips or perfect blade angle to return it. I guess I am low level by international standards. Low and slow but very experienced.

-------------
Wood Paddle
Red side
Black side.




Posted By: VictorK
Date Posted: 05/27/2015 at 3:00pm
Originally posted by koshkin koshkin wrote:

.... However, that Bengtsson handle (early straight/square handle that is a bit short) makes all the difference in the world to me.

It fits my hand and provides incredible amount of feedback.  The same blade with a different handle does not feel nearly as good and I gave it a shot for a almost three months once trying to get used to it.

I am sure it is something about the way my hand is shaped, but it makes a huge difference to me.

ILya




ILya, Are you talking about this handle design?   If so, for me it's also the most comfortable handle I've ever used - by far.




-------------
99% practice
1% equipment
0% ratings


Posted By: VictorK
Date Posted: 05/27/2015 at 3:13pm
Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

Because they are slower.

So you are you saying because Allround blades are slower you have more control over the incoming topspin?



From my experience, when trying to block spinny opening loops the ball typically pops high and long.  Slower blades tend to have shorter rebounds and longer dwell, which allow me to keep the ball on the table (rather than go long) and direct/place my shots more accurately.


-------------
99% practice
1% equipment
0% ratings


Posted By: Skyline
Date Posted: 05/27/2015 at 7:13pm
Originally posted by VictorK VictorK wrote:

Originally posted by Skyline Skyline wrote:

Originally posted by danseemiller danseemiller wrote:

Because they are slower.

So you are you saying because Allround blades are slower you have more control over the incoming topspin?



From my experience, when trying to block spinny opening loops the ball typically pops high and long.  Slower blades tend to have shorter rebounds and longer dwell, which allow me to keep the ball on the table (rather than go long) and direct/place my shots more accurately.

thanks VictorK your explanation seems to make sense. 
I was really curious about Dan's comment  so today I played with my stiga allround classic carbon with tenergy 25 2.1 on the forehand and stiga calibra lt spin on the backhand. Like you said the rebound is shorter and the dwelltime is much longer with this setup than with my usual stiga clipper with omega v combo. However the the llround classic carbon has a much smaller sweetspot and vibrates like hell. Playing wise the allround setup might give better blocking control but it doesn't feel that way to me at all.  For blocking I prefer stiffer blades.


Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 05/31/2015 at 9:40pm
I bought a couple of the recommended allround blades, Grubba and Appelgren Allplay. I used the Grubba with Adidas P7 and Tenzone Ultra today at club and didn't find it to be slow at all. In fact, when smashing and looping it seemed faster than my Korbel. Compared to the Korbel, the Grubba is lighter, blocks and pushes easier, has higher throw angle when looping. 

My first couple of matches were terrible. My pushes were catching the top of the net, loops were all over the place both in the net and long. Eventually I learned that this set up is extremely dwelly and the cause for much of my mistakes. After that realization, a larger percentage than normal of my shots stayed on the table. Its going to take more hours of training to see where this equipment change takes me.


-------------
Apolonia ZLC
Donic Z3
Andro R42


Posted By: mog1111
Date Posted: 12/14/2016 at 4:44am
I don't think Yasaka Sweden Extra has a hollow handle, it feels very balanced to me. more balance than TSPW or Pure Wood. im talking not head heavy feel in hand with flair grip

-------------
Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon
FH: Tenergy 05fx
BH: Spinlord Keiler



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