Step down from Viscaria
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Category: Equipment
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Topic: Step down from Viscaria
Posted By: SmackDAT
Subject: Step down from Viscaria
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:09am
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Hello everyone, Unfortunately I lost my Viscaria at a tournament yesterday - don't feel bad, I always thought the Viscaria was slightly too fast and soft for my liking. I'm looking to purchase a blade which is a step down from Viscaria, preferably 5/7 ply all-wood, with a slightly harder touch than Viscaria (or similar), but with less rebound effect. I was looking at the Clipper Wood, Infinity VPS V, Korbel, Stratus Powerwood etc. Any recommendations would be appreciated. |
Replies:
Posted By: GTeaLatte
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:12am
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Sorry, not qualified to give equipment advice. I am curious though, how did you "lose" your viscaria? Did it break? ------------- Stiga Rosewood NCT V FH: Stiga Genesis M red BH: Stiga Mantra S black |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:20am
Either stolen or just left it behind. Most likely the former.
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GTeaLatte wrote:Posted By: *_strataras_*
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:23am
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U should go to a classic clipper, it is perfect choice, and I would recommend you, the tibhar samsonov force pro black edition. But the stratus powerwood is a very good choice too. ------------- OSP Virtuoso SQST Tenergy 05(black 1,9mm FH) Tenergy 05(red 1,9mm BH) http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74157&title=feedback-strataras" rel="nofollow - Feedback |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:25am
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If you want less rebound and abit less speed id go with a limba top ply blade. But for a harder feel you might want to look into composite 7 ply with limba outer or 7 ply all wood with limba/ayous. My suggestions are Clipper, Samsonov force pro, Nittaku Ludeack for 7ply all wood Or Samsonov Stratus carbon, Innerforce ALC, Acoustic Inner Carbon for composite. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:34am
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Yeah, although your options are definitely in the ballpark for a drop in overall speed, they're all softer in terms of impact feel. If you have to have limba as an outer, the 2nd ply needs to be hard instead of soft, so limba-koto or limba-composite. You could try a Nittaku Redshank, but the handle is very slim. Possibly better to go for a 5-ply with a harder outer. Stiga Emerald (or the incoming Eternity), Butterfly Hadraw VR, Adidas Avenger 5 (if you can find one).
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Posted By: The soul of rock
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 9:48am
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Yasaka Extra Offensive or Extra Special would fit the bill. They are all a tad slower than Viscaria with hardwood top plies ------------- Viscaria FL FH: Nittaku Hurricane 3 NEO BH: Tenergy 05 ------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69322&PID=841245" rel="nofollow - My feedback |
Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 10:09am
| Hadraw VR |
Posted By: notfound123
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 10:13am
| Acoustic or Violin |
Posted By: yogi_bear
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 10:42am
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For a 7 ply blade either the itc or adidas challenge speed and for the 5 ply blade, yasaka ma lin extra offensive ------------- Independent online TT Product reviewer of XIOM, STIGA, JOOLA, SANWEI, GEWO, AIR, ITC, APEX, YASAKA and ABROS ITTF Level 1 Coaching Course Conductor, ITTF Level 1 Coach |
Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 10:45am
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Korbel fits your needs. ------------- Apolonia ZLC Donic Z3 Andro R42 |
Posted By: victorm
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 11:12am
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Korbel will be a good choice as well |
Posted By: jonyer1980
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 11:20am
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Maze is a bit slower and ALC as well. I would go for any hardwood series like Andy suggested, or RW V ------------- Rosewood V FL Nittaku Fastarc G1-FH Stiga DNA Pro-S MAX BH Avoid any Butterfly stuff... at abusive prices. Raw power without control means nothing |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 12:24pm
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When I had the Boll alc (almost the same as Viscaria) I felt the same need for a slower blade with less rebound. Hardness wasn't priority but keeping no vibrations of a composite was. Idk if OP would like vibrations of a hard 5 ply all wood blade, coming from Viscaria which is pretty null when it comes to that. YEO which is a hard 5 ply had too much vibrations and made me dislike that blade. Limba + 2nd layer ALC/composite would probably fit better. But if he wants vibrations then go for all wood. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 12:33pm
I would definitely like a little more feedback than my Viscaria, preferably with a harder touch, but with more control than Viscaria. |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 12:51pm
Hi there, my Viscaria was 92g. My friend has a used Maze ALC at 82g - should I purchase this, as it has the limba outer ply but ALC? Would T64 on the backhand feel mushy on the Maze? Thanks.
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Posted By: rickywinataa
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 1:05pm
Limba is plays nicely with soft sponge or at least the MJ SZLC was really nice with vega europe when I used it. I had so much dwell time on pushing. Personally, having used M.Maze and currently using TBS, Maze isn't slower compared to tbs, it actually feels springier compared TBS. The softer limba outer ply means you'll contact the composite layers more. If you want something that's slower on passive strokes but don't really have any problem with the speed in looping / smashing, consider the innerforce layer ALC
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Posted By: tiehwen
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 1:13pm
------------- http://mytabletennis.net/Forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=17089" rel="nofollow - I love & am inspired by Malala Yousufzai's "True & Tough" LIFE STORY |
Posted By: piligrim
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 1:41pm
Korbel as step down from Viscaria? it would be 5 steps down |
Posted By: Bran
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 1:49pm
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The Victas Quartet AFC is a good candidate, half way between innerforce ALC and Viscaria, not as fast and more woody compared to the latter, but harder than the former. |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 2:10pm
| Thanks, I might just buy it tomorrow off my friend for £40 (he desperately needs money!) I already have T05/64 on 2.1mm thickness in my bag unfortunately... |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 2:25pm
Hehe
 Fresh Tenergies on them as well tomorrow - going to be a good day gluing tomorrow... One or two layers of Vario Clean for Tenergy btw? |
Posted By: bruno_ar2002
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 3:57pm
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if u like something very very similar to viscaria, but a tad slower and harder go maze. ------------- FH: H3B 40 BH: TGS 3-60 Blade: ZJ ALC |
Posted By: rickywinataa
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 4:03pm
Two layers, unless you're putting a pretty thick amount of it
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Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 4:08pm
Tell him that I'll offer £41.
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Posted By: The soul of rock
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 4:12pm
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The deal is great, but IMHO, 82g is way too light for any ALC blade. But then, you can always flip it for some extra ££, lol. ------------- Viscaria FL FH: Nittaku Hurricane 3 NEO BH: Tenergy 05 ------- http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=69322&PID=841245" rel="nofollow - My feedback |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 4:32pm
He'll get at least £41 from me. Safe as houses. I remember my 66g ALC Reygundo. You kids don't know you're born with your "82g too light". And stay away from my bins!
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Posted By: ThePongProfessor
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 4:45pm
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ITC Premier XR or XF ------------- YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/ThePongProfessor http://mytabletennis.net/forum/feedback-thepongprofessor_topic69419.html" rel="nofollow - Feedback |
Posted By: AndySmith
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 4:50pm
Yeah, I'm sure he will. It's a subtle change from a Viscaria, but could be just the ticket. Mr Fang - If it doesn't work out, buy one of my Viscarias. I keep meaning to put them up for sale.
I really want to try an XF out, but still hard to find over here in europe.
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 5:40pm
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I think you will not like all wood after a Viscaria. |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 5:53pm
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Get the maze for that money!!!!! ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 04/24/2016 at 11:30pm
Get the TBS, done and done.  -------------  Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: bully
Date Posted: 04/25/2016 at 12:30am
| For a minimum change in your game style and a maximum change in your wallet...pick a old tag Viscaria ! Best choice ! |
Posted By: rickywinataa
Date Posted: 04/25/2016 at 4:04am
This. I can't stand Xiom offensive S after been using M.Maze, MJ SZLC and TBS over the course of 8 months. Looking forward to try Innerforce ZLC w/ MX-P this week tho
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Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 04/25/2016 at 1:29pm
 Done and doner...finis.------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 04/25/2016 at 1:30pm
Done and doner...finis. ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/25/2016 at 6:16pm
If you haven't noticed TBS has the same wood construction as Viscaria...  So obviously you're trying to make we waste money  ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 04/25/2016 at 6:54pm
Obviously, you don't know your blades.  TBS does NOT play like the Viscaria. TBS is more balanced and not head heavy like the Viscaria. The TBS handle is slimmer than the Viscaria's.------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: nv42
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 2:31am
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I thought the tbAlc was introduced because the tbs was gonna be head heavy with the new gen rubbers like tenergy. I havnt heard people complaining abt viscera being head heavy though :l ------------- 1.dhs pg2 fl -FH t05h (max) -BH tibhar genius (max) |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 2:46am
Fair enough, but wood composition is still identical - playing properties aside it's not a significant downgrade. ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |
Posted By: haggisv
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 4:02am
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Yes, the balance is going to depend a whole lot on the rubbers, so unless we're talking about the same rubbers, it's going to be hard to compare. ------------- Smart; VS>401, Dtecs OX http://tabletennisshop.com.au/index.php?main_page=page&id=42" rel="nofollow - Tenergy Alternatives | http://tabletennis-reviews.com" rel="nofollow - My TT Articles |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 1:25pm
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I personally don't think Viscaria is head heavy, I think it is perfectly balanced (with two sheets of T05). Also a blade with similar composition but smaller handle is certainly not going to be less head heavy. |
Posted By: frogger
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 2:47pm
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I have a few TBS and Viscaria. The construction may be the same but they do play differently. Viscaria is more head heavy and seems to be more suitable for an away from table player. TBS has the best balance of any blade I have ever owned. Superb balance. ------------- Wood Paddle Red side Black side. |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 2:56pm
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I've held a 82g Viscaria and it didn't feel head heavy to me with h3 and t80. Owned a 84g tb ALC with 2.1 t05 both sides and that felt nicely balanced. I think all 3 Viscaria, TBS, and TB ALC are nicely balanced in general. BTY is known for that compared to tibhar and other companies. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: MindTrip
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 3:35pm
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My Viscaria is only a few months old and is not head heavy at all. I'm curious if the ones stating that it is are referring to the classic dark logo Viscaria. ------------- Apolonia ZLC Donic Z3 Andro R42 |
Posted By: rickywinataa
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 4:28pm
Heck, my TBS is 93g, with 05 and 64 it feels really balanced and it's FL handle, the ST probably will feel even more balanced Do note that my preference for balanced is slight head heaviness. I don't like super head heavy setups as it hinders wrist movement speed but there needs to be some weight on the head to give good swing momentum in loops
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Posted By: Nasche
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 4:41pm
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Well, after all this discussion I got myself a Viscaria |
Posted By: vanjr
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 4:43pm
If I have learned anything from this forum it is that EVERY blade is a step down from a Viscaria...
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Posted By: carmelomaf
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 5:32pm
you have to do just like me buy a innerforce alc layer
------------- Tibhar MX-P 50 Max| BTY Boll ALC FL | Tibhar MX-S Max an Italian playing TT in Germany |
Posted By: CraneStyle
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 5:56pm
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Viscaria light... 😄 ------------- 1. Mizutani Jun ZLC, FH T80, BH T05 |
Posted By: rickywinataa
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 6:04pm
Well you've got to hate carbon and feedback if you hate viscaria or any ALC blades. It's not extremely expensive, it's faster than all-wood but not stupid fast like pure carbon composite and it gives plenty of feedback when looping
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Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 10:32pm
I use old black tag ones, they have perfect balance* at least to my way of seeing things. * OK, a few minutes after posting this I thought, what does that even mean? I frankly have no idea, I suppose it just means that I really like the way the blade feels when I play with it. I guess it means I am not conscious of their being too much weight anywhere in the blade -- or too little. |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 10:36pm
Lol so true ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: jt99sf
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 10:39pm
No production blade is head heavy @ 82 or 84 gms. ------------- Photino/Super Viscaria : H3 (FH)/Dr N pips(BH)林德成 HardBat:Hock 3-Ply /Dr Evil |
Posted By: DreiZ
Date Posted: 04/26/2016 at 10:49pm
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My blade is 87g and its head heavy with moderately heavy rubbers. ------------- Main: Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC 85g FH/BH: Glayzer 09C 2.1mm Chopper: Stratus Power Defense 85g FH: Hybrid K3 max BH: Grass D.TecS 0.9mm USATT: 1725 |
Posted By: BrunodeDanann
Date Posted: 04/27/2016 at 9:27am
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I have been through the same and I choose the Xiom Ignito. As it is a carbon blade it has a firmer/harder feeling but still have some touch because of hinoki outer plies. I quite liked. ------------- Harimoto ALC HUrricane 3 Vega asia |
Posted By: SmackDAT
Date Posted: 05/01/2016 at 11:25am
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Just wanted to update this thread with my experiences: The maze I'm using now is definitely a step down from Viscaria in speed, however the passive control is slightly increased, and blocking feels safer, although less solid than with Viscaria. Using Tenergy 05/64 2.1, there isn't a lack of speed, but it does require more effort for kill shots and middle distance play. I'm not sure if I'm a fan of the soft feel due to the limba outer, especially with Tenergy 64 on the backhand. A coach running our session (who is an ex national champion), said that the combination was slightly too soft and dwelly for him. However, in match play, I felt like I could win more points through short game, blocking and medium power looping, but less through punching shots, smashes and loop kills, which actually translates to more points won, assuming I don't play like crazy. I will definitely be sticking with the Maze until at least August, and then I will decide whether to purchase a Viscaria or Freitas ALC (Maze rebadge), as the Maze is damaged on the edges due to the previous owner, to the extent that it may affect the bond on the edges. ------------- Zhang Jike ALC AN (88g) Tenergy 05 Hard (2.1, B) Tenergy 19 (2.1, R) https://goo.gl/bFWoxW" rel="nofollow - https://goo.gl/bFWoxW |