Trouble in 3rd ball attack
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Topic: Trouble in 3rd ball attack
Posted By: pacificspice
Subject: Trouble in 3rd ball attack
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 2:50pm
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I usually have a very spinny Pendulum serve on the right elbow of a right handed player or a short double bounce serve and I usually get a high ball on the return but fail to smash the return because of my own spin I miss hitting the ball most of the times. Which side does the ball spin on a simple return from the opponent? Any tips on how to tackle this problem. Thanks.
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Replies:
Posted By: WeebleWobble
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 2:57pm
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You hit it long or into the net? Or miss it completely? You shouldn't miss it completely. If it's really high and short flat hit it. If it's a bit deeper I would loop kill it. Make sure you're relaxed, follow through, and lift it a little. |
Posted By: pacificspice
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 3:04pm
| Yes in some cases I am missing it completely. My eyes lit up seeing a freebie and I have my backswing ready but the ball spins considerably and I totally miss it atleast on 50% of occassions. Other times I am able to put the ball back on the table with ease. |
Posted By: wanchope
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 3:44pm
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The spin returned by your opponent, assuming he/she uses reversed rubber, is opposite to the spin you serve. The basic rule is that Spins bounce on rubburs ------------- Barwell fleet, Omega 7 Pro & Fastarc S1 |
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 8:26pm
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Sounds to me like a footwork/anticipation problem... ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 8:56pm
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It might also be an “over-excitement” problem. We make the serve. We get the poor return. And then we get excited, make a big backswing, often fail to move to the ball well, and then let loose with a swing at 110%. Personally, I've been working on letting my feet get “excited” while staying more calm in the upper body, limiting the backswing, and hitting at 70-80% a lot more often. The bigger the effort, the greater the likelihood of error in my experience. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: rickywinataa
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 9:13pm
It's just exactly like he said above. Doing a full power swing always creates a risk of mis-hitting the ball. If you miss up to 50% of the ball, you should focus on getting the ball in first with the emphasis of going deep into the corner or even side
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wturber wrote:Posted By: ericd937
Date Posted: 04/12/2017 at 11:34pm
Don't underestimate the effectiveness of hitting directly into different parts of the opponents body as well. ------------- Current Setup: TBS FH T80/BH D80 Official USATT Rating 1815 Current estimated level: 1800-1900. |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 10:58am
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I think Jay (and eric) are absolutely right about 'overexcitement' and especially about the calmness of the upper body relative to the feet. That is a really good concept. Along those lines, you don't need to "smash" the third ball. The fact that you used that word to describe your concept of the ball maybe is revealing of what the problem is. You need to make a solid aggressive topspin shot. You don't need to necessarily hit a winner right there though. Something one of my coaches once said about that, I think it was either Eric Owens or Perry Schwartzberg, is to keep your face and breathing relaxed on that shot! It is like a zen idea I think. If you find yourself mentally saying "grrrrrrrrrrr!!!!" on a third ball, with your face in a grimace, maybe you are too rigid -- as opposed to a controlled exhalation when you hit the ball (which helps timing). I don't know if that will help you, but it sure did for me. I have to periodically remind myself. Of course also being aware that the ball may come back with some side spin off your serve also. |
Posted By: APW46
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 12:01pm
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If you are missing the ball completely, I would suggest that you just need more hours on the table, you have not been playing long enough to consistently time the stroke. Its very similar to teeing off in golf, you have to work at a sweet contact before anything else. You could also be standing too square to the ball, this gives a tendency to hit across the line or unintentionally fade making sweet timing more difficult. ------------- The Older I get, The better I was. |
Posted By: mts388
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 1:20pm
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I think you get so excited about a chance to kill a high ball that you forget to move your feet after your initial foot placement. |
Posted By: pacificspice
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 2:52pm
| I think this is what is happening when I hit hard and expect a winner the ball comes back more often than not from my opponents. (Btw I have a rating of 1400 USATT) And when I see a high gifted ball I try to put more force on my shot and don't anticipate the spin on the bounce to score a home run. Thanks for all the suggestions I am going to try using 80% of my force to hit the ball rather than risking a mis-timed shot. |
Posted By: garwor
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 3:12pm
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I have this problem for many years, and still didn't found solution :) Pretty much any bad service return which is like 40 cm high and close to net, I smash into net or too long. I have to try slow smashing with smile :) ------------- http://stonitenis.rs/equipmentreviews" rel="nofollow - Equipment database Yinhe MC-2 FL fh: Xiom Vega pro bh: Xiom Vega pro Boycott Marcos Freitas for hidden services! |
Posted By: wturber
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 3:19pm
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One think to recognize is that with a high ball return, you have more time. If you are concerned that your opponent is frequently successful at blocking the ball back then there are two things to keep in mind: 1) Don't smash so hard that your follow through makes it hard for you to recover to a neutral position quickly. Hit quickly and sharply and immediately bounce back to ready. Assume it is coming back. 2) Don't hit predictably. By getting your feet into position before you back-swing, you leave yourself more options as to where you can hit. ------------- Jay Turberville www.jayandwanda.com Hardbat: Nittaku Resist w/ Dr. Evil or Friendship 802-40 OX |
Posted By: berndt_mann
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 4:39pm
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wturber's advice regarding the third ball kill is as usual sensible, pacificspice, but consider this. After hours and hours and weeks and weeks and months and months of practice, you finally have the technique to follow up your spinny services with an all but unreturnable three-ball kill. You win virtually every point on your service by doing this. Your rating goes up 700 points. Now everybody you play has been coached by Stellan Bengtsson and has an incredibly spinny serve followed up by a devastating smash or murderous forehand loop kill. You smash or loop kill your opponents; they do the same to you, no matter how good or well placed your and their returns are. Each game averages three shots. Spectators, ir there are any, go for some Chinese take-out. By the time they get back (approximately three minutes), the match is over. One of you won, but only God knows who. ------------- bmann1942 Setup: Mark Bellamy Master Craftsman blade, British Leyland hard rubber |
Posted By: rocketman222
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 8:16pm
One step at a time brendt, let him first get to the killing the 3rd ball. ------------- http://www.bladesbycharlie.com/models/hinokighost" rel="nofollow - BBC Hinoki Ghost http://mytabletennis.net/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74126&title=feedback-rocketman222" rel="nofollow - My Feedback |
Posted By: Baal
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 9:11pm
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The secret to a good third ball is to play it under the assumption that you will have to hit a fifth ball and be ok with that. Your third ball will be good and even Berndt will be happy. |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 9:24pm
Agreed, you can't just do all-in 3rd balls nowadays, you tend to make many mistakes and players with good blocks are going to be able to block another significant proportion, making your win percentages after the attack even lower. Much better to make an high percentage topspin to a good placement to secure an advantage for your fifth ball. ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: blahness
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 9:31pm
I for one love watching well executed loopkills and the cat and mouse game to set it up, just like a well executed serve and volley in tennis. They are so artistic and definitely more interesting than hour long push battles! , it makes table tennis exciting  ------------- ------- Viscaria FH: Hurricane 8-80 BH: D05 Back to normal shape bats :( |
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 04/13/2017 at 10:50pm
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That's why a good serve return is key ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: pacificspice
Date Posted: 04/14/2017 at 10:17am
| So last evening I played yesterday with a friend of mine who is really good at returning what I smash at him.. sometimes I am surprised he returns everything I hit hard.. Yesterday I tried to hit 80% of my strength to get ready for my next shot in case if I got back a return and in most cases I was able to put bat on ball and I may have missed about 20-30% so a big improvement. Also mixed up my 3rd ball returns with slower FH loops and faster FH loops to flat hitting high balls. By the end of the night the last game I played I was really on top of my game and had beautifully set up my 3rd ball attacks with a mixture of FH Pendulum serves to tomahawks to my opponents FH. I am surprised at number of people I have played who do not understand the 3rd ball attack. It certainly gives me important points at crucial junctures of the game and has saved me time and again if well executed. |
Posted By: JacekGM
Date Posted: 04/14/2017 at 2:03pm
I'd say, take it easy... and smile gently when going for the kill shot. ------------- (1) Juic SBA (Fl, 85 g) with Bluefire JP3 (red max) on FH and 0.6 mm DR N Desperado on BH; (2) Yinhe T7 (Fl, 87 g) with Bluefire M3 (red 2.0) on FH and 0.6 mm 755 on BH. |
Posted By: TTHOUSTON
Date Posted: 04/16/2017 at 1:07pm
I can help you solve these issue within an hour
if you live in Houston. I need to explain more than type few words in here. Anyway, I would like giving you some key in here to figure out by yourself. 1- your first serve to their elbow and depend what he return the ball by his back hand or right hand? the spin of the ball will be different and the easier way to loop is loop the same way of the spin of the ball. 2- your second serve...short to his forehand and you miss the smash??? With my advice is you need to imaging where the ball go BEFORE you serve. You expect the ball SHOULD be HIGH then right after you serve, you need to ready put your hand and your paddle higher than the table and ready to hit the ball at highest of the bound before the ball drop (most of problem for every one is put the hand down after serve then put the forearm up not high enough before smash). If you let the ball drop, you can't smash anymore, you have to loop even the ball still high. Bottom line, you need practice these 2 setup with your partner and here is your way need to practice. 1- Serve to his elbow and he return by his back hand then you loop both side to figure out which side is best way. 2- Same serve and he will return by his forehand then you loop. 3- Serve short his forehand and you tell him let the ball bound high for you practice smash or loop. (I prefer loop than smash) Good luck, |
Posted By: TTHOUSTON
Date Posted: 04/16/2017 at 1:26pm
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How you know which side the ball spin after they return the ball back to your side? Tell your partner return your serve by back hand then you just put your paddle touch the ball to see where the ball go? Then do that serve again and he will return by his right side and you just do the same to see where the ball go. That is how you figure out what is spin of the ball. You can loop against the spin of the ball by spin stronger than the spin of the ball (need practice).
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